Not on the list but need your help

[wildcat03]

I've been dating a great guy for the last 8 months. After years of dating guys where the relationships were dead ends, I was thrilled to meet him. He is kind, attentive, caring, and treats me so well. After dating for months and several events transpiring that made me sure, I told him I loved him (and I do!). And then I waited, and waited, and waited. And he hasn't said it back. At first I put it aside. I had no reason to doubt that it would come. But it's been a while now, and he hasn't said it. Finally I couldn't take it anymore and brought it up. He told me that he just couldn't say it. The implication being (I guess) that he just doesn't feel it - although he never said that. While all of this is going on, he is currently job hunting. Back when we first met, he had planned to move several thousand miles away. Because of me, he shelved that plan and is staying here. I never asked him to do this, he decided it all on his own. When we talked yesterday, I suggested he expand his search to include that original city, as I didn't want to be the one who held him back. His response, "You are more important to me than living in [city] or any other potential move."

Ladies, I am totally lost here. Here's a (great, amazing, wonderful) guy who I'm completely head over heels for who is staying here because I'm anchored here and yet he can't tell me he loves me. I feel so lost.

 

[madelise]

Talk to him. Tell him you need to know. It's not a dead end at, "I can't say it". Why'd you leave it at that? I would have asked a million questions, starting with "why?".

Him not ever telling you he loves you, then making arrangements around his hopeful career and your living arrangement = mixed signals. Unmix those signals by having an open, honest conversation.

 

[wildcat03]

Talk to him. Tell him you need to know. It's not a dead end at, "I can't say it". Why'd you leave it at that? I would have asked a million questions, starting with "why?".

Him not ever telling you he loves you, then making arrangements around his hopeful career and your living arrangement = mixed signals. Unmix those signals by having an open, honest conversation.

Yes - mixed signals! I don't know why I couldn't put into words exactly what was bothering me, but that's exactly it.

I'm going to have to let this settle a little bit, since I'm working about 16 hours a day for the next few weeks and we're supposed to go to a friend's wedding this week on my one day off.

 

[Rhea]

I don't think he's purposely giving you mixed signals. Some people are actions speak louder than words people. He certainly hasn't tripped over himself to tell you how much he loves you and that he plans to be in your life, but he's shown it loudly and clearly by making his life where yours is. I'm not saying that is enough or should be enough but perhaps he expresses love in a very different way to you. I think it's reasonable to ask him all these questions.

 

[sphenequeen]

Some people are not verbally expressive about their feelings - but if this is something you require, make sure that you recognize this and end up with someone whom you are emotionally compatible with. His actions are incredibly important, but do not underestimate how important it may be for you to hear those 3 words. It could be that he feels the relationship is too new to say "I love you," or perhaps he has had a history that would cause him to put up walls.

I think it is important at this stage to give him time instead of questioning him. If you are confident that he is committed, then at this point I would let it go. He clearly knows where you stand.

 

[sonnyjane]

Some people are not verbally expressive about their feelings - but if this is something you require, make sure that you recognize this and end up with someone whom you are emotionally compatible with. His actions are incredibly important, but do not underestimate how important it may be for you to hear those 3 words. It could be that he feels the relationship is too new to say "I love you," or perhaps he has had a history that would cause him to put up walls.

I think it is important at this stage to give him time instead of questioning him. If you are confident that he is committed, then at this point I would let it go. He clearly knows where you stand.

Hmmm....I think that depends on how old the OP is. When young, sure, what's the rush. But if older? Ehh, I'd rather know sooner rather than later if something isn't going to go where I'd like. Sure actions speak louder than words, but if someone wanted a life with me, I would sure hope they loved me!

OP wasn't quite clear on what his explanation was. If it was that he doesn't say it because he just isn't a fan of the word, that's one thing. If he said, as the OP kind of implied, that he doesn't say it because he doesn't FEEL it, then that's a huge issue in my opinion.

 

[wildcat03]

Thanks for the input, ladies. I am actually 32, and very much hoping that having children is in my future, so in some ways time is of the essence. That being said, my professional life (which is the reason I am still single at 32) is in transition for the next couple years.

I don't know why he "can't" say I love you, but I've decided to shelve formal discussion for the time being for a couple reasons. 1) Even if he doesn't love me (yet?) or doesn't KNOW he loves me (yet?), I'm still willing to give him a LITTLE more time to figure that out and 2) I'm worried that if I approach that conversation from where I stand right now and from where he stands right now, it'll end with us broken up and to be perfectly honest, it's a really bad few weeks for that to happen. I think we BOTH need a little bit of processing time. All that being said, I will start job-hunting in August and if things stand where they do now, I will be searching for a position based on my needs/wants.

I think part of the reason this is so tough on me is that I really do think he loves me - but I'm rapidly approaching a point where I need to hear that from him.

 

[sonnyjane]

I think part of the reason this is so tough on me is that I really do think he loves me - but I'm rapidly approaching a point where I need to hear that from him.

Rightfully so. My husband isn't a very emotional character. He says "I love you" in person typically if I say it first (for example, when going to bed or leaving for work). He will, however, email or text me "I love you" almost everyday. At first I found that a bit, well, silly for lack of a better word and wondered why he wouldn't say it on the phone as much or in person, but then I realized that it's just not his personality.

Now...if he NEVER said "I love you" through any medium, that wouldn't fly. You said you've been together 8 months? I think my "ess or get off the pot" cutoff would be the year mark.

 

[StacylikesSparkles]

I think part of the reason this is so tough on me is that I really do think he loves me - but I'm rapidly approaching a point where I need to hear that from him.

Rightfully so. My husband isn't a very emotional character. He says "I love you" in person typically if I say it first (for example, when going to bed or leaving for work). He will, however, email or text me "I love you" almost everyday. At first I found that a bit, well, silly for lack of a better word and wondered why he wouldn't say it on the phone as much or in person, but then I realized that it's just not his personality.

Now...if he NEVER said "I love you" through any medium, that wouldn't fly. You said you've been together 8 months? I think my "ess or get off the pot" cutoff would be the year mark.

Agreed. I think if he can't say 'I love you' after a year, then really, how long do you think it'll take him to come around the the idea of marriage and babies? At 25, this wouldn't be so much of an issue, but at 32, you only have so many good years left to start making babies. Hopefully he surprises you well before you reach the 1 year mark though!

 

[madelise]

Look, we can speculate a million things about their relationship, or why he won't say it. But speculation is pretty much BS at this point, since we don't know OP nor her boyfriend. It really doesn't sound like he's a bad guy at all. I really don't like that there's an assumption he won't be ready for marriage or children just because of this. Some people just don't like saying it. That's it. It could be due to any reason. Scarred in the past? Promised himself to never say it again until x time mark? Due to upbringing? Heard parents say it too many times without meaning so those words don't mean anything to him anymore? Anything.

The important part is, is that the OP asks him why, and finds out why. Their relationship sounds perfectly fine and he sounds perfectly committed--- it's just those words. That's it. As long as she finds out why, and what his intentions are, they can move forward, those 3 words be damned.

I can't tell you when the last time my boyfriend told me he loved me was unless it was a repetition to my saying it first, ie., "I love you", "I love you too" or "me too". It's purely a greeting at that point, and no longer an expression of lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness. I had a huge issue with this before, and we used to argue over this. But character > words. And he has his own way of showing his lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness-- it just doesn't include using those 3 words often.

 

[StacylikesSparkles]

Look, we can speculate a million things about their relationship, or why he won't say it. But speculation is pretty much BS at this point, since we don't know OP nor her boyfriend. It really doesn't sound like he's a bad guy at all. I really don't like that there's an assumption he won't be ready for marriage or children just because of this. Some people just don't like saying it. That's it. It could be due to any reason. Scarred in the past? Promised himself to never say it again until x time mark? Due to upbringing? Heard parents say it too many times without meaning so those words don't mean anything to him anymore? Anything.

The important part is, is that the OP asks him why, and finds out why. Their relationship sounds perfectly fine and he sounds perfectly committed--- it's just those words. That's it. As long as she finds out why, and what his intentions are, they can move forward, those 3 words be damned.

I can't tell you when the last time my boyfriend told me he loved me was unless it was a repetition to my saying it first, ie., "I love you", "I love you too" or "me too". It's purely a greeting at that point, and no longer an expression of lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness. I had a huge issue with this before, and we used to argue over this. But character > words. And he has his own way of showing his lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness-- it just doesn't include using those 3 words often.

You're absolutely right on that. I was basing my opinions off of previous people I knew/dated and found that if they can't say it, they surely aren't ready for the next step towards marriage and babies, which is what the OP said she wants (well, babies...I don't think she mentioned marriage). People work differently and need different things. I need to not only feel the 'I love you' from his actions, but I need to hear it too. Not everyone needs that.

OP, I hope everything works out for you and your love. Madelise makes a very valid point about some people being a show-er instead of a say-er. So long as you feel comfortable where you are, then enjoy your time with your guy!

 

[sonnyjane]

Look, we can speculate a million things about their relationship, or why he won't say it. But speculation is pretty much BS at this point, since we don't know OP nor her boyfriend. It really doesn't sound like he's a bad guy at all. I really don't like that there's an assumption he won't be ready for marriage or children just because of this. Some people just don't like saying it. That's it. It could be due to any reason. Scarred in the past? Promised himself to never say it again until x time mark? Due to upbringing? Heard parents say it too many times without meaning so those words don't mean anything to him anymore? Anything.

The important part is, is that the OP asks him why, and finds out why. Their relationship sounds perfectly fine and he sounds perfectly committed--- it's just those words. That's it. As long as she finds out why, and what his intentions are, they can move forward, those 3 words be damned.

I can't tell you when the last time my boyfriend told me he loved me was unless it was a repetition to my saying it first, ie., "I love you", "I love you too" or "me too". It's purely a greeting at that point, and no longer an expression of lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness. I had a huge issue with this before, and we used to argue over this. But character > words. And he has his own way of showing his lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness-- it just doesn't include using those 3 words often.

Some valid points. As I mentioned in my response above, my husband isn't a very emotional guy, but he does say "I love you" in some form every so often. I.E. he HAS said it! But to NEVER say it? EVER? EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR? Not once? How long would you let that continue? Forever? Could you (general you) marry someone or live with them for the rest of your life if they had never said it a single.solitary.time? I know they are just words, but they are BIG WORDS! 8 months isn't the time to panic, because my husband and I were dating for 6 months before we said it, so the OP isn't too far off from that time line, but I'm just curious how long people could go without ever hearing it.

 

[madelise]

Look, we can speculate a million things about their relationship, or why he won't say it. But speculation is pretty much BS at this point, since we don't know OP nor her boyfriend. It really doesn't sound like he's a bad guy at all. I really don't like that there's an assumption he won't be ready for marriage or children just because of this. Some people just don't like saying it. That's it. It could be due to any reason. Scarred in the past? Promised himself to never say it again until x time mark? Due to upbringing? Heard parents say it too many times without meaning so those words don't mean anything to him anymore? Anything.

The important part is, is that the OP asks him why, and finds out why. Their relationship sounds perfectly fine and he sounds perfectly committed--- it's just those words. That's it. As long as she finds out why, and what his intentions are, they can move forward, those 3 words be damned.

I can't tell you when the last time my boyfriend told me he loved me was unless it was a repetition to my saying it first, ie., "I love you", "I love you too" or "me too". It's purely a greeting at that point, and no longer an expression of lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness. I had a huge issue with this before, and we used to argue over this. But character > words. And he has his own way of showing his lovey dovey warm ooey gooeyness-- it just doesn't include using those 3 words often.

Some valid points. As I mentioned in my response above, my husband isn't a very emotional guy, but he does say "I love you" in some form every so often. I.E. he HAS said it! But to NEVER say it? EVER? EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR? Not once? How long would you let that continue? Forever? Could you (general you) marry someone or live with them for the rest of your life if they had never said it a single.solitary.time? I know they are just words, but they are BIG WORDS! 8 months isn't the time to panic, because my husband and I were dating for 6 months before we said it, so the OP isn't too far off from that time line, but I'm just curious how long people could go without ever hearing it.

"Never" means the infinite future, too. At this point, she's just talking about up-til-now. Maybe OP is okay with that? Maybe she isn't. I didn't say he shouldn't say it, ever, and that she should put up with it. I just said that the OP should find out why, and where their relationship stands, what his intentions are. Doesn't that prove that he loves her? And, since we don't know why he hasn't said it-- the whole thing I'm pushing at: WHY-- we don't even know if he will later! Maybe he wants to wait until x point in time? Maybe he promised himself to never say it again, ever, ever, ever? Maybe he will say it, soon? We don't know. She doesn't know. All that matters is "why".

And then OP should decide if the reasons behind "why" are good enough, or won't stand with her. That's it.

And no, I wouldn't be able to be with a man who has not said it, and will never say it. But that's me. I'm not going to go condemn anyone who is willing to be with someone like that, though. And here we are, speculating again, that he will never-ever-ever say it.


For all we know, they've already talked about this, she's already found out why, or he's already told her "I love you".

 

[sonnyjane]

And then OP should decide if the reasons behind "why" are good enough, or won't stand with her. That's it.

And no, I wouldn't be able to be with a man who has not said it, and will never say it. But that's me. I'm not going to go condemn anyone who is willing to be with someone like that, though. And here we are, speculating again, that he will never-ever-ever say it.


For all we know, they've already talked about this, she's already found out why, or he's already told her "I love you".

Oh, I'm not speculating that OP's bf specifically will NEVER say it. My take on this, based obviously only on the OP's post, is that they discussed it and that his reason was that he hasn't said because he's not "in love" yet, so doesn't want to say it. I just want to avoid a scenario where the OP waits for 7 years holding out hope.

As I said earlier, they are NOT at that place yet. 8 months in is not an extreme, but once they've been together for a year or so, they should at least feel comfortable discussing that.

 

[madelise]

Would someone change their whole career plans and moving plans to stay in a town for someone they didn't love? I think he loves her.

 

[wildcat03]

Just thought I'd pop in to add a few things.

First, he really is a wonderful guy. Whether we end up together forever or not, unless something goes seriously sour, I will always think that of him. He is kind, attentive, caring, and treats me incredibly well.

As far as marriage, I think he wants to get married someday (we have talked about it in a general sense).

I definitely do need to get to the bottom of WHY he "can't say it" but I need to have that conversation in a calm, rational way and I don't think I'm there yet. I think I'm slowly getting there - it's been good for us to have some time apart this week (we live 30 miles apart from eachother, and our work schedules have been crazy).

I greatly appreciate everyone's input, especially with respect to timeline - I guess 8 months is kind of early to be freaking out, but it's what I was/have been feeling. I absolutely could not marry someone who couldn't say that they loved me, no matter how well they showed me.

 

[mimB]

Wildcat,
I see that this is a scary conversation, but there is nothing actually to fear about it. There is only one outcome, and it's a good one - you and your partner understanding each other better, having a clearer vision of your relationship. To me, the obstacle you face is made of assumptions - specifically, that when you and your parnter say the same word, you mean the same thing.
This is the case for most people, unless they explicitly discuss a concept and arrive at a mutually acceptable definition.

So, what do you mean by an "I love you"? What collections of feelings and hopes are you labeling "love"? How do these compare to your partner's definition of "love?

Maybe for you, an "I love you" means sharing a space together, raising a cat together, letting your partner have the larger portion of your favorite ice-cream, needing to be the one to make him chicken soup when he's feeling unwell, or letting him be the only person to mess up your hair 5 minutes after you finished making it pretty.

You assume that if he says "I love you" back, he'll mean the same emotions as you mean when you say "I love you".

It's possible, however, that to him and "I love you" has some sort of enormous meaning - perhaps far greater than you put into an "I love you". Maybe to him an "I love you" must come with 100% certainty of life time commitment. Or maybe the phrase has been spoiled for him. Or smth else.
Basically, just because he's not saying it, does not mean he is rejecting you.

In any case, you are armed with a good plan - to figure out why he can't say "I love you". I would also try to figure out what an "I love you" implies for him.
And if it turns out that he's not ready to say that particular phrase, either overall or to you in particular, I think you still should be courageous and explain that for your fulfillment, you need him to notify you of affectionate sentiments he's experiencing towards you (so that while you're still learning each other, you don't resort to trying to read his mind - that tends to lead to miscommunication).
After all, you want to know that he's experiencing emotions and hopes that YOU assign to an "I love you".

For example, to verbally convey the love without saying I love you, he could say: "I'd like to plan a vacation together so we can spend time with each other"; "I have these plans for my career growth but I want to make decisions together with you, and share my experiences with you"; "you're beautiful, I miss you even when you're right next to me"; "I have tons of fun with you"; "I can see myself growing old with you"; "I want to make sure noone ever hurts you". etc etc.

As for timelines. Universal timelines are silly - your own situation is the only one that matters here. Person A could take 5 years to explore a relationship before wanting a "next step", and Person B could need to a sign of commitment 3 months into the relationship, and both of them would be working with a timeline that is reasonable and applicable for them.
To me, it sounded like your personal timeline has less to do with how long you've been dating, and more with you feeling anxious and the upcoming change in your life situation - a job search.
What you're trying to figure out is whether to use a "me" mentality during your decision making, or an "us" mentality. However, the only way to do that is to discuss and decide together if you guys want to be an "us" - and what being an "us" would mean to both of you.

 

[LaraOnline]

If everything's good, and he's knocking back opportunities in other places to be with you, why badger and stress him?
He seems to be a 'show not tell' kind of guy.

My man's a 'show and not tell' kind of person as well.
As a happily married of 10 years, I reckon I have never won an argument by 'talking about it'.
In fact, if I have gotten 'chatty' in times of high stress, very often I have created a big problem when none previously existed.
He appreciates a sense of being understood and accepted - that is love to him!
He finds 'deep and meaningfuls' unpleasantly demanding, they seem 'off' in tone to him.

Still waters run deep.

If you are wildly in love, and happy together, just BE happy and BE together.
You'll be surprised what might happen!


ETA:
And, I know you feel you're not in a hurry, but for my 'show and not tell', it happened relatively quickly, nurturingly, decisively...he's 'show and not tell'!

 

[wildcat03]

If everything's good, and he's knocking back opportunities in other places to be with you, why badger and stress him?
He seems to be a 'show not tell' kind of guy.

My man's a 'show and not tell' kind of person as well.
As a happily married of 10 years, I reckon I have never won an argument by 'talking about it'.
In fact, if I have gotten 'chatty' in times of high stress, very often I have created a big problem when none previously existed.
He appreciates a sense of being understood and accepted - that is love to him!
He finds 'deep and meaningfuls' unpleasantly demanding, they seem 'off' in tone to him.

Still waters run deep.

If you are wildly in love, and happy together, just BE happy and BE together.
You'll be surprised what might happen!


ETA:
And, I know you feel you're not in a hurry, but for my 'show and not tell', it happened relatively quickly, nurturingly, decisively...he's 'show and not tell'!

Lara - Funny that you mention this! I was just mentioning to someone that he is totally an actions guy, not a words guy and I come from a family of words people. There are some amazing things to being with a guy who is actions instead of words, but it's very different from my previous relationships. We had a really great weekend with one small blip that actually gave us a chance to communicate better and work through some thing.

We didn't further discuss "I love you" because I felt like we just needed some time to be ourselves. While we were dancing at my friend's wedding, he did start singing along to Frank Sinatra's "Falling in Love With You" while staring in my eyes. I don't think that means anything, but it was very sweet.

 

[wildcat03]

Just wanted to let you guys know that he ended things today. I am surprised, shocked, and completely brokenhearted. How he ended things showed me that he wasn't the man I thought he was, so I guess it's good to know that but it's tough to learn it this way.

 

[LaraOnline]

Ohh! I'm surprised! I'm so sorry Wildcat!!
he has done you a favour.

It really is a needle in a haystack.
At the end of the day you've got to be with a guy who wants what you want.
Mine kicked into gear in his mid-30s...he was starting to worry about missing out and more to the point, he finally had himself settled and ready to take on 'the real deal'.

Buy yourself something wonderful (JEWELLERY), book yourself a facial and a haircut and ONWARDS and UPWARDS!
It's only nappies and dishes anyway lol.

 

[mimB]

I am so sorry.
I wish I could somehow make it better; I hope that you have people and activities in your life that will make getting through this easier.

 

[Rhea]

I'm sorry that he ended the relationship. I hope that you friends and family to turn to.

 

[StacylikesSparkles]

The good news out of all of this is that you know exactly where you stand with him. I'm sorry you had to find out in such a negative way, but thankfully you can pic yourself up and start focusing on YOU and find someone who isn't scare of saying he loves you.

 

[LaraOnline]

Yeah, sounds like he was having a crisis... or crises....
at least we've covered that actions speak louder than words

I'm sorry if I 'gave you hope' when actually your inner voice was telling you something was up.

 

[Jumpin_Jacks]

So sorry to hear! You're right, better to know now. You deserve someone who's on the same page as you, but right now it's painful.

 

[wildcat03]

Yeah, sounds like he was having a crisis... or crises....
at least we've covered that actions speak louder than words

I'm sorry if I 'gave you hope' when actually your inner voice was telling you something was up.

Lara, not at all. I tend to have very good and very strong gut instincts, and I really did not see this coming like this. I knew we were having a rough time, and knew it could happen, but didn't think it would be this week or even this month. In fact, when he called me to set up a date yesterday (which, in the end, turned out to be setting up a time to break up with me) I had a really bad feeling for a second, but he said something entirely incongruous with breaking up with me 5 hours later (and no, I didn't ask for reassurance or ask him to say anything, this was something he said entirely of his own volition). I think the real problem is that HE doesn't know what he wants/needs. I'll never be able to trust him again, though, so he'll have to find someone else once he figures it out.

 

[sonnyjane]

Huh! Well.... I'm terribly sorry to hear that. As others said, he did you a favor by telling you now!

 

[madelise]

Wow.

I'm so sorry. E-hugs. I'm glad this didn't drag on any longer, though. That not-knowing feeling is the worst. Better sooner than later.
I really wish you all the best. And a bunch of open communication with all future suitors!




<3

 

[junebug17]

Oh no!! I haven't commented in this thread but have been reading along, and I am just so sorry...you didn't see this coming and you must be in shock right now...I know you are really hurt, but as others have said it's better to find out now, instead of later on when you'd be even more attached...hang in there, take care of yourself and find comfort in family and friends - this too shall pass. Hugs!!!