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Non-certified Diamond advice

dondo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
3
Hi,

I just started looking for an engagement ring for my girlfriend...with no real previous diamond experience. I found a setting I really like at a local jeweler. They seemed like really nice people...a married couple that owned the place, which has a very good reputation (according to yelp).

They showed me a diamond for the setting that they said was 0.71 G VS2, for $2186. I looked at these specs online afterward and found that that seems like a low price (looked on whiteflash and here). While I was there the owner mentioned that he had bought this diamond before the recent diamond value increase (which I looked into afterward to see if that was made up) so he was willing to sell it to me at the price he bought it, not the price to replace it. This was only my first trip out too get general ideas, so I didn't look really really closely at the diamond. Is it more likely that the cut is terrible, that they just lied about the specs, or are they just really generous people?

I have been in contact with them since and asked if the diamond we discussed was certified, and they said no, but they have other diamonds of similar size that are certified that I can come in and compare it to, which are most likely more expensive of course. Are they just betting on the fact that I don't have enough experience to tell the difference in a head to head comparison?

Thanks in advanced.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
29,150
Be wise.
Tiny differences, not noticeable to many untrained eyes, can double the price of a diamond.

Independent lab reports exist for a very very good reason.

This has nothing to do with how nice these people are, or your judge of character.
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,563
They could be very stand-up folks offering a great deal. Diamonds < 1ct are sometimes sold without reports - but in this day and age a grading report is almost compulsory so there are a few things you can do in your interest. One is to take some of the money you're saving to hire an independent appraiser to assess the diamond. If your jeweler is confident in his grading of the diamond he should have no problem extending a full-refund return period if the appraisal does not satisfy your requirements.

When choosing the appraiser be sure he or she is a true independent (one who does not sell gems or jewelry and that you find and hire). You will need to decide what priority cut-quality has in this purchase. If it's a high priority you should select an appraiser of complete and current ability to make cut quality judgments - like the ones who frequently post on Pricescope.

Here is an article that may be of-interest.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/“appraise_appraiser”_help_consumers
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
Will they send the stone in to be certified? When I became interested in my upgrade stone my jeweler had just bought it and it was uncertified. He sent it to GIA for a cert before I committed to buying it.

Is your stone an RB? I would want it certified for sure.

If they won't certify it, will they give you a guarantee that you can return the stone for a full refund if you bring it to an independent appraiser and find that the specs aren't as they promised?
 

dianacatapang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
6
I read a warning from a post I stumbled upon last time and I think it might help you make a decision. I am not sure if this is related but, here it goes: They say "if the document contains any statement about the monetary value of the diamond, it is not a grading certificate or report. It is an appraisal, which can be done by anyone, including the salesperson selling the diamond (or an appraiser associated with the salesperson), and it is subjective. "So, with that said, I think you should convince them to have it certified or just consider buying a diamond ring from other more trusted jewelers. I think you wouldn't want to compromise your diamond purchase I guess :twirl:
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,838
If you've seen it and uyou otherwise love it, offer this:

THEY send it to GIA for grading. If it meets or exceeds their claimed specs and the cut is a least, say, VG or better, you'll pay the full asking price, plus shipping, plus the GIA fees. It takes about 3 weeks from most US locations including shipping time by USPS registered mail. If it doesn't grade out, the deal is off, they pay the fees and they have a now GIA graded stone for the next customer. If they would like to offer it to you for a lower price at that time they're welcome to do so but there's no obligation on either one of you and your decision will be based on what the results actually turn out to be.

Sound fair?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
denverappraiser|1304032439|2907433 said:
If you've seen it and uyou otherwise love it, offer this:

THEY send it to GIA for grading. If it meets or exceeds their claimed specs and the cut is a least, say, VG or better, you'll pay the full asking price, plus shipping, plus the GIA fees. It takes about 3 weeks from most US locations including shipping time by USPS registered mail. If it doesn't grade out, the deal is off, they pay the fees and they have a now GIA graded stone for the next customer. If they would like to offer it to you for a lower price at that time they're welcome to do so but there's no obligation on either one of you and your decision will be based on what the results actually turn out to be.

Sound fair?
I like this suggestion. But I dooubt they will do it ;)) If they felt confident that the diamond would come back like they wanted, they would have sent it semselves!

Get an iron clad refund policy in writing that is very clear if you opt for this option of the one John suggested.
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,563
dondo|1303777533|2904934 said:
They showed me a diamond for the setting that they said was 0.71 G VS2, for $2186.
I like Neil's suggestion. A full GIA Report for that diamond will cost $78. The GIA Dossier report will cost $53 without inscription ($65 with). Paying a bit more for peace of mind seems practical for you and having a diamond with a solid report - whether you buy it or not - could seem practical to your jeweler.
 

OCgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
509
This sounds exactly like my jeweler :shock: . My jeweler is this couple. Their shop is located in so cal.
 

dondo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
3
Yeah, I was thinking of making the "If the certification is as good as you say I'll pay for the certification" proposition, but I haven't spoke with them recently. I am still looking around, but it's definitely the best ring I have found thus far (other than diamond questions). I am also just considering buying a loose stone elsewhere and buying the setting only from them.

I guess my only question is, if it still looks good to me, is there a chance it's actually worth less than $2000? I'm definitely no expert.

I will ask if they are willing to certify it though. Thanks for the help.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
dondo|1304126182|2908364 said:
Yeah, I was thinking of making the "If the certification is as good as you say I'll pay for the certification" proposition, but I haven't spoke with them recently. I am still looking around, but it's definitely the best ring I have found thus far (other than diamond questions). I am also just considering buying a loose stone elsewhere and buying the setting only from them. I suggest doing this.

I guess my only question is, if it still looks good to me, is there a chance it's actually worth less than $2000? I'm definitely no expert. Of course there is a chance! In fact I would bet the odds are MUCH better it is not as represented than that it is what it is represented to be. No cert = unknown value for the diamond = risky for consumers.

I will ask if they are willing to certify it though. Thanks for the help.
 

dondo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
3
Ok, I have a new question, so the topic probably won't quite make sense anymore.

The setting I am interested in will fit a max diamond size of about 0.7 carats. If I'm looking online at that size and I want an emphasize on diamond quality and sparkliness, what parameters should I be looking for? I know in general F is colorless and VS2 should not be visible to the naked eye, but can you go lower than this at a size of 0.7 without a discernible difference (to the untrained) for a better value? Thanks again for the tips.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
diamondseeker2006|1304134375|2908438 said:
I certainly think G VS2 is fine and many have H stones as well that appear very white.
yes definitely I think you can go to H and SI1 (check if eye-clean) and still have a great diamond, especially if you focus on cut
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
slg47|1304139394|2908460 said:
diamondseeker2006|1304134375|2908438 said:
I certainly think G VS2 is fine and many have H stones as well that appear very white.
yes definitely I think you can go to H and SI1 (check if eye-clean) and still have a great diamond, especially if you focus on cut
Ditto. Unless you have strong color preferences, or have cultural value for the colorless range and are a diamond afficionado, many people can go to I/J color and be *perfectly* happy. I own a 1.67ct J color and am very happy with my diamond. Go see some stones in person that are graded by AGS or GIA with top cut and compare colors in person. Jared's peerless like, or Tiffany, or Hearts on Fire would all be good ways to see some colors with good cuts.
 
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