Nobody Wants To Play Debate The Debate?!

[fleur-de-lis]

Okay, this is the first debate that I was able to watch in my home without entertaining; without the hors d''oeuvres, drinking games, and lively conversation among a bunch of politically-active dinner guests I was *finally* able to pay attention to some of the details. So...

... why are there 43 "experts" lined up along a curvy desk on CNN??!?!?!!?

f-d-l

 

[Haven]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:34:25 PM
Author: idreamofcushions

So any comments on my second post? Everyone seemed pretty interested to hear the backup to the first

I''m not sure I understand your use of "Socialist" to describe Obama. Perhaps you are searching for a different term?

I''m interested in your sources about Obama''s tax plan--linkie, please?

Just to be clear--I am not trying to be adversarial. I''m interested in idream''s sources because I want to read more. I hope that''s not misunderstood, as ridiculous as that would be.

I''m still watching the debate, we started a bit late, so I''m dividing my attention between PS and the TV.

 

[strmrdr]

neither of those 2 clowns impressed me tonight.
Is that really the best we can get?

In some areas I agreed with one or the other but overall I don''t think either one has a handle on the problem.
I think both are lying about the question of how the current economic problems is going to effect their plans.
The McCain energy policy makes the most sense to me on that issue. I believe that Sarah can be a good leader on this issue.

I don''t like either tax policy.
I don''t trust either one of them to lead in the recovery from the economic mess we are in.
I don''t like either education policy.
I don''t like either social policy.
I lean towards McCain fairly strongly on foreign policy and the military.
Abortion is none of the governments business.
I don''t see either as a strong leader this country needs.

 

[idreamofcushions]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:33:33 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis

Actually, socialism refers to the broad set of economic principles advocating state or collective ownership of the means of production.

Though by that measurement, would President Bush be a socialist via the acquisition of 79.9% ownership of AIG?

You''re right about socialism. What I mentioned is an economic policy common in socialist governments. So thanks for clarifying.

And yes, Bush is advocating nationalization of some of our largest financial institutions. It''s absolutely wrong. So in short, I agree with you on both things you said.

 

[Haven]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:41:24 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 10/15/2008 10:34:39 PM

Author: Haven


I said nothing of nasty. My follow-up to your post was an attempt at clarification as a means of keeping things ''non-adversarial'' as you wrote. (Indy--You must be a lawyer, no? I haven''t heard ''non-adversarial'' in conversation since I was in law school. Sorry for the tangent; I was just curious.)

Haha not yet! (Perhaps I should be supporting Obama, as I know he will create more jobs for lawyers!)

I''ve heard it too much in (law school) class and in this election; it''s been imprinted in my mind nowadays. I have no problem with your asking for clarification Haven! Being around ATW a lot has probably heightened my sensitivity to things turning ugly very quickly on debate threads...I certainly didn''t mean to single you out at all. Hopefully you stick around!

Hey, congrats! Best of luck to you with the impending job hunt!

I teach high school English and I''m a closet wannabe history/government teacher; I get my fair share of discussion about the election with my dear colleagues at work. Let''s just say they are definitely adversarial, but we respect each other so it''s all very invigorating.

This is the first time hubby and I are watching a debate alone and nearly on-time, so I was aching for some discussion which is why I came on ATW. I have a much easier time with the in-person debate-the-debates, I can tell you that much. It''s hard for me to keep up online!

 

[zhuzhu]

Dear Idreamofcushions,

Regarding your comment on McCain-Palin health care plan, please refer to my previous posting if you have not already.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-mccain-plan-for-health-insecurity.97601/

You might be so young that the idea of yourself getting sick has never once entered your mind. Please know that health, unlike your money and assets, will not recover when you lose it(just like aging). That is one area that government SHOULD intervene to ensure everyone has equal access to.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I'm not going to get into the issues because I'm sort of debated out, but I have to say--who are these people who are still undecided??

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:50:21 PM
Author: Haven

Hey, congrats! Best of luck to you with the impending job hunt!

I teach high school English and I'm a closet wannabe history/government teacher; I get my fair share of discussion about the election with my dear colleagues at work. Let's just say they are definitely adversarial, but we respect each other so it's all very invigorating.

This is the first time hubby and I are watching a debate alone and nearly on-time, so I was aching for some discussion which is why I came on ATW. I have a much easier time with the in-person debate-the-debates, I can tell you that much. It's hard for me to keep up online!

I am getting a joint degree with a concentration in Health Law so I have a few years left and hopefully the job market for me is strong regardless of WHO is elected! (Wishful thinking, anyway.) My friends without specializations know that Obama will create more government regulatory jobs, and with the private firm market looking down nowadays that might be the route they go if he is elected. I did know that you are a teacher from my activity in the LIW & BWW threads, I think that is AWESOME.

I *loved* most of my teachers growing up & I know they are not anywhere near fully compensated for their work.

We've had some heated discussions in law school since I live in an urban, Obama area in a predominantly Republican state. It's very interesting and enlightening to discuss the candidates with well-versed people there (and on PS). I do realize that your posts were not meant to be negative, so I was not talking about you in my original ETA post.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:55:27 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I'm not going to get into the issues because I'm sort of debated out, but I have to say--who are these people who are still undecided??

I haven't met one yet!

ETA: Do you guys think that the presidential candidates' spouses' stylists call each other to make sure they aren't going to be wearing the same color? Also, did you notice that the candidates' ties matched the other spouse's outfits?

Anyone watching Hillary saying she doesn't want a Cabinet position in Obama's administration? Anyone believe she would turn one down? I'm not sure.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:55:27 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I''m not going to get into the issues because I''m sort of debated out, but I have to say--who are these people who are still undecided?? Seriously, you know those annoying lines that MSNBC always shows that displays participants'' responses to sections of the debate? There is the democrat line, the republican line and the undecided line. If you haven''t decided by now, just give up!

Here here!
If you haven''t decided by now you''re either lying or you just don''t have an opinion on any issue, which means you are probably a pretty boring person.

This does not include those who have a broad understanding of both campaigns and have just decided that both candidates stink.

 

[Haven]

I haven't met an undecided yet. I work with several people who refuse to vote for either major party candidate, though. As a teacher, I find McCain's views on education scary, and I can understand why other teachers wouldn't support Obama because he supports charters, but still--I'm not undecided.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:58:54 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 10/15/2008 10:55:27 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I''m not going to get into the issues because I''m sort of debated out, but I have to say--who are these people who are still undecided?? Seriously, you know those annoying lines that MSNBC always shows that displays participants'' responses to sections of the debate? There is the democrat line, the republican line and the undecided line. If you haven''t decided by now, just give up!

Here here!
If you haven''t decided by now you''re either lying or you just don''t have an opinion on any issue, which means you are probably a pretty boring person.

This does not include those who have a broad understanding of both campaigns and have just decided that both candidates stink.

great line, Lucky!

 

[idreamofcushions]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:51:54 PM
Author: zhuzhu
Dear Idreamofcushions,


Regarding your comment on McCain-Palin health care plan, please refer to my previous posting if you have not already.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-mccain-plan-for-health-insecurity.97601/


You might be so young that the idea of yourself getting sick has never once entered your mind. Please know that health, unlike your money and assets, will not recover when you lose it(just like aging). That is one area that government SHOULD intervene to ensure everyone has equal access to.

Well, I''m not sure if that was a personal attack on me (sure felt like one) but I will ignore that...

You mention government intervention... but to what degree? Forcing workers who already have insurance to foot the bill for a government-mandated plan, when we''re already paying for other services such as Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare -- in a failing economy to boot? Additionally, how will private companies compete with a government plan that provides more than they do? In a free market, won''t they pass the new costs onto consumers? (which will ironically make them less competitive?)

By no means am I an expert, but these are questions that the Obama campaign hasn''t answered yet.

 

[Kaleigh]

I hated the debates tonight. Passive aggressive much??

I am watching the Phillie's now, winning against the LA Dodgers GO PHILLIES!!!!

Sorry couldn't resist!!!

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:13:42 PM
Author: Kaleigh
I hated the debates tonight. Passive aggressive much??

I am watching the Phillie''s now, winning against the LA Dodgers GO PHILLIES!!!!

Sorry couldn''t resist!!!

Ugh, Lisa... I was trying to forget about that!

it''s not over yet!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:16:40 PM
Author: ChargerGrrl

Date: 10/15/2008 11:13:42 PM
Author: Kaleigh
I hated the debates tonight. Passive aggressive much??

I am watching the Phillie''s now, winning against the LA Dodgers GO PHILLIES!!!!

Sorry couldn''t resist!!!

Ugh, Lisa... I was trying to forget about that!

it''s not over yet!

Oh sorry. But ya know we never win anything. Always the bridesmaid never the bride.

 

[idreamofcushions]

Date: 10/15/2008 10:44:18 PM
Author: Haven

I''m interested in your sources about Obama''s tax plan--linkie, please?

Here''s a non-partisan analysis of both plans: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/election_issues_matrix.cfm

The WSJ linkie is: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html

 

[E B]

CNN Poll: Who was more likable?

Obama: 70%
McCain: 22%

ETA: The "Quick Poll" on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain's 14% (currently).

 

[Haven]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:36:56 PM
Author: idreamofcushions

Date: 10/15/2008 10:44:18 PM

Author: Haven


I''m interested in your sources about Obama''s tax plan--linkie, please?

Here''s a non-partisan analysis of both plans: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/election_issues_matrix.cfm


The WSJ linkie is: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html

Thank you!

 

[goobear78]

My opinion is that Obama won hands down. McCain came out strong, but then went south fast. It was really a shame for me to see McCain get so visibly angry and upset at Obama. That only fuels the opinion that he has a bad temper. He was huffing and rolling his eyes at Obama.

So who do you guys think won this debate? And let''s keep it friendly.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:38:31 PM
Author: EBree
CNN Poll: Who was more likable?

Obama: 70%
McCain: 22%

ETA: The ''Quick Poll'' on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain''s 14% (currently).

Fox news poll is the complete opposite, obviously.

Polls stink. I''m done with them.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:38:31 PM
Author: EBree
CNN Poll: Who was more likable?

Obama: 70%
McCain: 22%

ETA: The 'Quick Poll' on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain's 14% (currently).

McCain irritated the heck out of me. And I went into this debate with eyes wide open. McCaiin left a very bad taste in my mouth. I wanted him to sway me, but he didn't. He fell way way short. So Obama it is for me. Was undecided till tonight.

 

[idreamofcushions]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:38:31 PM
Author: EBree
CNN Poll: Who was more likable?


Obama: 70%

McCain: 22%


ETA: The ''Quick Poll'' on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain''s 14% (currently).

haha! gotta love that biased CNN...

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:51:19 PM
Author: goobear78
My opinion is that Obama won hands down. McCain came out strong, but then went south fast. It was really a shame for me to see McCain get so visibly angry and upset at Obama. That only fuels the opinion that he has a bad temper. He was huffing and rolling his eyes at Obama.

So who do you guys think won this debate? And let's keep it friendly.

To me, McCain's reactions don't equate to a bad temper (not saying he might not have one or that you are saying so, just saying those things don't show it to me). I'm sure many of us have huffed or rolled our eyes after reading some of the posts on here (if the emoties are any indication!), but that doesn't mean we have bad tempers, it just means that we disagree and don't understand the logic involved in the comment. I DO think that he should've refrained from it though, as it gives off a bad impression. As a side note, I never thought Al Gore's reactions in 2000 were any negative indication of his actual character either.

I don't know if there is a clear-cut "winner" of the debate but if you compare it relative to past performances I would give the edge to McCain, as in it was McCain's strongest and Obama's weakest IMHO. I think each party's candidate did what they needed to do, though and I don't think any of those mysterious undecided voters were given anything new on which to base their decision. MUCH better format, but same ol', same ol'.

 

[FrekeChild]

I have spoken with someone who is undecided. He is by no means uneducated on the issues (or in general-he''s an astronomer) he''s just conflicted on who to vote for. At this point he''s conflicted on certain things with each candidate, leaning fiscally towards McCain and socially towards Obama. In recent days though he has begun to lean towards Obama. Why? Link

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:54:54 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 10/15/2008 11:38:31 PM
Author: EBree
CNN Poll: Who was more likable?
Obama: 70%
McCain: 22%
ETA: The ''Quick Poll'' on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain''s 14% (currently).

Mccain irritated the heck out of me. And I went into this debate with eyes wide open. McCaiin left a very bad taste in my mouth. I wanted him to sway me, but he didn''t. He fell way way short. So Obama it is for me. Was undecided till tonight.

Interesting! I felt the same way about McCain (obviously

) but I''m glad to hear it''s not just die-hard Dems seeing the "ick" factor in McCain. He lacks the social acumen to realize when people aren''t buying what he''s selling. He can''t read a room. Those are just stylistic things that have nothing to do with the KEY ISSUES in this election. I''m not voting because of the "ick" factor -- but I certainly NOTICE it!

 

[idreamofcushions]

Date: 10/15/2008 11:54:54 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 10/15/2008 11:38:31 PM

Author: EBree

CNN Poll: Who was more likable?


Obama: 70%

McCain: 22%


ETA: The ''Quick Poll'' on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain''s 14% (currently).

McCain irritated the heck out of me. And I went into this debate with eyes wide open. McCaiin left a very bad taste in my mouth. I wanted him to sway me, but he didn''t. He fell way way short. So Obama it is for me. Was undecided till tonight.

Awww - I truly hope this wasn''t your deciding factor. It''s hard to get down to the real issues during debates. Did you know that Thomas Jefferson had a stutter and hated to speak in public? Since I learned that in US history, I told myself I would never vote for someone based on outward appearances. I have a friend who is Republican but is voting Obama simply because she doesn''t like Palin (the accent bothers her). I urge you to dig a little deeper, you never know what you might find! I posted a few links, check em out!

 

[Kaleigh]

Obama''s demeanor in responding to McCain showed respect, and maturity. I think McCain, was condescending, and passive agressive to Obama. McCain came off as attacking, bullying. I know this is their last fight. I see why he''s fighting. But sheesh, to me, it was a big turn off.

Today the market took a huge nose dive, huge losses. I don''t know who can solve this mess. But am going to hide in my denial and celebrate my PHILLIE''S!!!! I am allowed this right??? LOL!!!!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 10/16/2008 12:01:52 AM
Author: idreamofcushions

Date: 10/15/2008 11:54:54 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 10/15/2008 11:38:31 PM
Author: EBree
CNN Poll: Who was more likable?

Obama: 70%
McCain: 22%

ETA: The 'Quick Poll' on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain's 14% (currently).

McCain irritated the heck out of me. And I went into this debate with eyes wide open. McCaiin left a very bad taste in my mouth. I wanted him to sway me, but he didn't. He fell way way short. So Obama it is for me. Was undecided till tonight.

Awww - I truly hope this wasn't your deciding factor. It's hard to get down to the real issues during debates. Did you know that Thomas Jefferson had a stutter and hated to speak in public? Since I learned that in US history, I told myself I would never vote for someone based on outward appearances. I have a friend who is Republican but is voting Obama simply because she doesn't like Palin (the accent bothers her). I urge you to dig a little deeper, you never know what you might find! I posted a few links, check em out!

I have to tell you that I give Kaleigh a lot more credit for making an informed decision that you just did. She's been around ATW for a while, and I guarantee she has paid plenty of attention to the details, the policies and everything else being taken into account.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 10/16/2008 12:09:18 AM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 10/16/2008 12:01:52 AM
Author: idreamofcushions

Date: 10/15/2008 11:54:54 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 10/15/2008 11:38:31 PM
Author: EBree
CNN Poll: Who was more likable?

Obama: 70%
McCain: 22%

ETA: The ''Quick Poll'' on CNN is also giving the debate to Obama 83% to McCain''s 14% (currently).

McCain irritated the heck out of me. And I went into this debate with eyes wide open. McCaiin left a very bad taste in my mouth. I wanted him to sway me, but he didn''t. He fell way way short. So Obama it is for me. Was undecided till tonight.

Awww - I truly hope this wasn''t your deciding factor. It''s hard to get down to the real issues during debates. Did you know that Thomas Jefferson had a stutter and hated to speak in public? Since I learned that in US history, I told myself I would never vote for someone based on outward appearances. I have a friend who is Republican but is voting Obama simply because she doesn''t like Palin (the accent bothers her). I urge you to dig a little deeper, you never know what you might find! I posted a few links, check em out!

I have to tell you that I give Kaleigh a lot more credit for making an informed decision that you just did. She''s been around ATW for a while, and I guarantee she has paid plenty of attention to the details, the policies and everything else being taken into account.

I have been reading for a looong time. I have one mind, MY OWN. I am a true researcher. I don''t trust once source. I read everything. Feke summed up my feelings... Thank you.