NO Children. Now, No Husband

[iLander]

So I got a phone call from a friend of mine, it's been a few of years since we last talked. She told me that she and her husband of 20+ years were in the midst of an awful divorce. I was saddened and surprised, but the worst thought in my head was this "She gave up having children for this guy, and now she's too old to have them."

He never wanted children, even though she desperately wanted them. She was a teacher of deaf children, and always had a special understanding of children. He kept saying "Next year," and putting her off. Eventually, the issue got buried, and she went along with hubby. Then she got too old (over 50 now) and she's past the age for childbirth. And now she and hubby will be each other's exes. I doubt she will want to adopt as a single, older mother. I'm disgusted and sad for her and she is full of regret.

What do you think?

 

[kenny]

So I got a phone call from a friend of mine, it's been a few of years since we last talked. She told me that she and her husband of 20+ years were in the midst of an awful divorce. I was saddened and surprised, but the worst thought in my head was this "She gave up having children for this guy, and now she's too old to have them."

He never wanted children, even though she desperately wanted them. She was a teacher of deaf children, and always had a special understanding of children. He kept saying "Next year," and putting her off. Eventually, the issue got buried, and she went along with hubby. Then she got too old (over 50 now) and she's past the age for childbirth. And now she and hubby will be each other's exes. I doubt she will want to adopt as a single, older mother. I'm disgusted and sad for her and she is full of regret.

What do you think?

Sad for her, but we have heard only one side of the story.

In divorce the two parties usually have VERY different view of who's the saint and who's the butthead.
Family and friends take sides that align with their loyalty, not with any neutral truth.

 

[ruby59]

Something this signifacant should have been discussed before the marriage. I know some people marry with the hope they can change the other, but it never works out well. If my partner did not want children and I did, this would have been a deal breaker. I think she was foolish in letting him string her along. If a man is that hesitant, in the back of my head I would wonder if he would even be father material.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, but it should be a joint decision. It is not something you can force the other into doing.

 

[Kaleigh]

I think she should have stood her ground long ago. If that meant dumping him then that would have allowed her to have her dream of kids. I think it's very sad she just went along.. Now with regrets..

Live life to it's fullest.. Dumb the baggage and live your own life... Dont wait for someone to give you the green light. This should have been dealt with long ago....

Been working for me...

 

[katharath]

I know someone who was in a similar situation. She and her husband were family friends of my parents, so I grew up knowing them. They married young, and she always wanted kids but he kept putting her off. He cheated on her many times and eventually, after 20+ years of marriage, they divorced. They both remarried other people within a few years and seem happy with their new spouses. The funny thing is that both of them married people with grown children from previous relationship, and after those kids had children, now both are grandparents. The man, who previously really seemed to dislike children, just adores his granddaughter, it's pretty funny. (I have all of these memories of him from when I was growing up and he was always so uncomfortable around us as children). And the woman really enjoys her grandchildren as well. She's a sweetheart and I was happy she got to have the experience of "grandma" in her life.

Maybe your friend will have an opportunity similar to this down the line. It's sad that she won't be able to have the experience of biological children/childbirth, but she still has options. I would encourage her to think about them, when she is ready. It's a sad situation for sure.

 

[JewelFreak]

How sad for her, iLander. I'm sure she will regret it to her dying day. I have to agree with the thoughts above -- when you're young & in love, you may think you'll change him (if indeed they discussed the subject then). But for something this basic, there's a point where you realize it's not in the cards & your time could be running out. She must have, and decided he was more important than kids, I presume. Whatever is wrong now with the marriage may have been wrong then but just not as urgently so. Saddest is that it didn't become important enough to divorce while she still could have had a family.

I hope she gets comfort from realizing the huge impact she has had on the kids she teaches, as well as nieces, nephews, friends' kids, whatever. That isn't small -- and they have given her irreplaceable gifts too. It's not a substitute but definitely counts.

--- Laurie

 

[SB621]

I never wanted children. ever! My DH was very non-chalant about it. He could have gone either way. However after a decade of being together children became a serious consideration and turned into one of the best things that happened to both of us. So I totally understand about getting married and thinking the partner might change their mind about it down the road- especially if he is telling her he will "next year" etc.

Honestly my heart goes out to her. To be alone in your 50's when you are still in the prime of life is hard. How does she feel about adopting an older child? In the 5-8 yr range?

 

[partgypsy]

My mother had a friend, very similar thing happened (with the addition the man left when she got cancer. How's that for an eye opener?).

This is the thing. We all make choices, whether it is to have children or not. To stay with this person. To continue to stay with this person. This person regrets, because in her mind, she made of choice of not having a child/kids, in return for a stable marriage/relationship. And that is the question. Why stay with someone who has so little respect for your wishes? If children was something that important to her, she should have revisited her values a while ago.

Sorry for being harsh. But everyone needs to have a clear look at what their values are, and make sure they are reflected in one's choices. Then, no matter what happens, there are no regrets.

And I do have to say some of the most influential people in my life were teachers I had. So I have no doubt that she has had meaningful impact on kids even if she did not "raise" them.

 

[momhappy]

Sad for her, but as Kenny said, there are always two sides to every story.
If she truly wanted children, then she should have made her feelings known at an appropriate time in her life. Unfortunately, she is partly to blame and I suspect she knows that already.

 

[iheartscience]

Sad for her, but as Kenny said, there are always two sides to every story.
If she truly wanted children, then she should have made her feelings known at an appropriate time in her life. Unfortunately, she is partly to blame and I suspect she knows that already.

Ditto this.

 

[SC86]

Something this signifacant should have been discussed before the marriage.

Completely agree with this. Something as basic as this should have been discussed long before deciding to get married, not afterwards. I'm a big believer that we each need to take responsibility for our own happiness and be true to our own values. They both made the choice to stay within their marriage even if they didn't agree on the issue of children. So I don't think it's fair to paint her solely as the victim. Anyway, she still has many options including adoption, becoming a step-parent (in her next relationship), etc. Good luck to her.

 

[movie zombie]

part gypsy pretty well said it for me.
it was her life. she made her choices.
unfortunately, hindsight is 20/20......

i'm betting that as a teacher she has had a great influence on a great many children.
i'm thinking she can find a way be involved with children in other ways from Girl Scouts to Big Sisters.

the one thing I hope she does not do is beat herself up over this.
what was, was.
what is, is.
what will be? she can make that happen!

instead of looking backwards, I hope she has learned to be true to herself and moves forward doing so.

 

[NTave]

I think its very sad. My aunt was with the same man from when she was 16..all through college, got married after college. Spent years together, and each year he put off having a family because he was not ready..When she turned 40 they divorced because he was cheating. At that point 40, unmarried, she could have tried to have a baby on her own, but she did not want to do it alone..dated a man for a year, but he wasn't interested in a baby. She has since met a wonderful guy with two younger school age children. She probably will not have a child of her own, but I think she is happy now, because she loves those kids.
My ex husbands stepmother, his dads second wife regretted not having children..he already had 3 children, two of those who were school age when they married..she was very vocal in her 50s that having a baby was something she always wanted, and I think it really ate at her..I know I had heard about it multiple times when I was part of the family. It was uncomfortable.
My priest was always said that he prayed that he would have many children when he was married..he divorced, became a priest and said that god listened to his prayers..he now had hundreds of children and plenty of parents to look after them all.
I feel bad for your friend. I think she gave up a lot to be in this relationship and it didn't turn out the way she wanted. And its sad.
I think we all make sacrifices for a relationship, to keep each partner happy...and the hope is that our sacrifices are made for the good of the couple. As a divorcee I feel for her, no one ever goes into a relationship thinking that a divorce will ever happen. I hope that she finds fulfillment in another way, possibly working with children.

 

[kenny]

This thread strikes a chord with me.

My SO made it clear 14 years ago he wanted kids.
At the same time I made it clear I did not and if he really wants kids he must move on.
He stayed.

Even today I can tell he has enormous regrets.
We will be at his parents house holding a baby nephew or niece on his lap ... suddenly he'll start weeping.

It's heart wrenching, but I'm not going to just dump him 'for his own good'.
If that's his priority it is HIS place to leave our relationship.
At least that's how I see it, though the older I get the more I am less sure about many things.

 

[House Cat]

I am a great believer in the fact that there are no accidents. Things work out in the way they are meant to work out.

That man wouldn't have made a good father to children he didn't want. Children who have parents who don't want them aren't happy people. Wives/mothers who are co-parenting with men who don't want children are very frustrated and sad, to the point of rage sometimes.

This situation is what it is supposed to be.

My only prayer for her now is that she DOES move on with her life and is gifted beautiful grandchildren!!!

 

[Sky56]

I think it is sad whenever someone is unable to have their dreams fulfilled. I don't have children and don't regret it, but understand how someone else would feel otherwise.

 

[missy]

I am sorry and sad for her.

I agree with those that said this was an important issue that should have been fully discussed and agreed on before marriage (or not marry that person) because one cannot compromise on whether or not to have children. I mean you can but then you might be filled with regret especially as you get older and cannot have children.

Sure she has a meaningful impact on the lives of all those children she has taught over the years but it's just not the same thing when you are longing for little ones of your own. I feel so badly for her and I hope as time passes she heals and is able to go on and enjoy a rich full life despite all she has given up.

iLander, I am sending your friend lots of good thoughts and healing dust and virtual hugs to you both. I know she will need you for love and support in the coming days and months and I know you will be there for her.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I feel for her ilander- and also for you.
When you have strong ( good) feelings for someone and you see them suffering, it hurts.

 

[sonnyjane]

Something this signifacant should have been discussed before the marriage.

Completely agree with this. Something as basic as this should have been discussed long before deciding to get married, not afterwards.

Don't assume that they didn't discuss it. My husband and I, when we married 5 years ago, both wanted kids. We even had a proposed timeline. Now, I no longer want children. The only difference in my situation is that he no longer wants them either, however if I had changed my mind and he still wanted them, I would have had to accept that I essentially broke a contract and therefore he should be free to go.

 

[iLander]

I agree with a lot of things that you all have said;

She should have worked this out, in her own mind, before she married him.

She made her bed, now she's got to lay (lie?) in it.

But I think their entire marriage premise was one-sided. My personal belief is that if each person puts the other's happiness before their own (and it goes BOTH ways), then that's a solid relationship. I think he was putting his own happiness before hers, and that's not right.

But she did choose to continue. And it was sliding badly for many years, to the point where she spent most of the year away from him, in their vacation home. If she had gotten out earlier, she could have had her own children. So, inside, somewhere, she didn't really want them, I guess.

My MIL, used to say something that I've only recently come to understand: she used to say "No one ever does anything they don't want to do." And underneath it, I think there's Some truth to that.

I think I mostly posted this as a warning to others: don't give up everything for another person, some day they might walk away. But if they truly love you, they won't ask you to give up everything. They'll want (desperately!) to find a compromise that works for you both.

Oh -sidebar- she gave up teaching many years ago, it was too heart-breaking.

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="iLander|1378859765|3518326.............My MIL, used to say something that I've only recently come to understand: she used to say "No one ever does anything they don't want to do." And underneath it, I think there's Some truth to that.

I think I mostly posted this as a warning to others: don't give up everything for another person, some day they might walk away. But if they truly love you, they won't ask you to give up everything. They'll want (desperately!) to find a compromise that works for you both.[/quote]


your MIL was a wise woman, iLander. and a good warning this post is!

 

[missy]

I agree with a lot of things that you all have said;

She should have worked this out, in her own mind, before she married him.

She made her bed, now she's got to lay (lie?) in it.

But I think their entire marriage premise was one-sided. My personal belief is that if each person puts the other's happiness before their own (and it goes BOTH ways), then that's a solid relationship. I think he was putting his own happiness before hers, and that's not right.

But she did choose to continue. And it was sliding badly for many years, to the point where she spent most of the year away from him, in their vacation home. If she had gotten out earlier, she could have had her own children. So, inside, somewhere, she didn't really want them, I guess.

My MIL, used to say something that I've only recently come to understand: she used to say "No one ever does anything they don't want to do." And underneath it, I think there's Some truth to that.

I think I mostly posted this as a warning to others: don't give up everything for another person, some day they might walk away. But if they truly love you, they won't ask you to give up everything. They'll want (desperately!) to find a compromise that works for you both.

Oh -sidebar- she gave up teaching many years ago, it was too heart-breaking.

That is so heartbreaking about her giving up teaching. It really is.

As for the part about a strong successful marriage being about putting your SO first I could not agree more. From the beginning of our relationship we discussed this very point and we both follow this principle as best we can. Sure we are human and mess up sometimes but this is a common theme throughout our relationship and I agree it works very well when both partners do this.

I am not sure I agree with your MIL about no one doing anything they don't want to do because people are so different and some individuals are really that selfless to their own detriment. In any case this is sad on so many levels. Perhaps she will decide to go back to teaching if that could bring her joy and fulfillment on a different level. I hope she finds peace and happiness whatever she decides to do with her future.

 

[Matata]

But I think their entire marriage premise was one-sided. My personal belief is that if each person puts the other's happiness before their own (and it goes BOTH ways), then that's a solid relationship. I think he was putting his own happiness before hers, and that's not right.

I think a solid relationship is based more on compromise than self-sacrifice although there are certainly times when sacrifices are necessary. When a couple has children, the relationship becomes focused on what's best for the children and the parents' desires take a backseat until those children are self-sufficient. I don't think there's a good way to compromise when one partner doesn't want to be a parent. At best, that partner may be surprised to find s/he really does enjoy having children. At worst, that partner is a disengaged parent or leaves the relationship altogether and the child usually bears the consequences.

 

[ruby59]

I 100% agree with the above poster. Yes, marriage is a compromise to make it work effectively. However, imo it does not apply to having children. Both parents need to be fully committed or the one who will lose out is the child. Children are very intuitive and know when a parent is just phoning it in.

 

[canuk-gal]

But I think their entire marriage premise was one-sided. My personal belief is that if each person puts the other's happiness before their own (and it goes BOTH ways), then that's a solid relationship. I think he was putting his own happiness before hers, and that's not right.

I think a solid relationship is based more on compromise than self-sacrifice although there are certainly times when sacrifices are necessary. When a couple has children, the relationship becomes focused on what's best for the children and the parents' desires take a backseat until those children are self-sufficient. I don't think there's a good way to compromise when one partner doesn't want to be a parent. At best, that partner may be surprised to find s/he really does enjoy having children. At worst, that partner is a disengaged parent or leaves the relationship altogether and the child usually bears the consequences.

Sad truth, but well said.

cheers--Sharon

 

[AGBF]

What do you think?

I think if she couldn't have lived without children, she wouldn't have.

Deb

 

[iLander]

But I think their entire marriage premise was one-sided. My personal belief is that if each person puts the other's happiness before their own (and it goes BOTH ways), then that's a solid relationship. I think he was putting his own happiness before hers, and that's not right.

I think a solid relationship is based more on compromise than self-sacrifice although there are certainly times when sacrifices are necessary. When a couple has children, the relationship becomes focused on what's best for the children and the parents' desires take a backseat until those children are self-sufficient. I don't think there's a good way to compromise when one partner doesn't want to be a parent. At best, that partner may be surprised to find s/he really does enjoy having children. At worst, that partner is a disengaged parent or leaves the relationship altogether and the child usually bears the consequences.

Sad truth, but well said.

cheers--Sharon

Hence the rest of my words:They'll want (desperately!) to find a compromise that works for you both.

The compromise can be being a Big Brother/Big Sister or hosting relatives' kids during summers or whatever. I would never advocate bringing an unwanted (by both parents) child into the world.

 

[movie zombie]

What do you think?

I think if she couldn't have lived without children, she wouldn't have.

Deb

very true.

 

[distracts]

Something this signifacant should have been discussed before the marriage. I know some people marry with the hope they can change the other, but it never works out well. If my partner did not want children and I did, this would have been a deal breaker. I think she was foolish in letting him string her along. If a man is that hesitant, in the back of my head I would wonder if he would even be father material.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, but it should be a joint decision. It is not something you can force the other into doing.

I have SO many friends who are getting engaged/married without ever discussing this. I'll ask if they want kids and they're like, "Oh, I don't know, maybe, we haven't ever talked about it." REALLY. I have one couple of friends planning to get engaged later this year where she is adamantly against children and he always says, "Well of course I don't want kids NOW, but like in ten years we'll have them." Or in ten years you'll have a divorce, maybe. ARGH.

I mean, okay, I get that people can change their minds but like. How can you plan to spend the rest of your life with someone if you don't even know the answer on something as significant as whether or not you want children?

I will also add that of all the female friends I have, two have children, two maybe want them, and the rest are dead-set against them. Like, dozens of people. I don't think it's REALLY realistic that they ALL won't end up wanting children (seems quite statistically unlikely) but you can't make assumptions that they'll change their minds.

Also re: the original post, I would not be at all surprised if husband went out, married a thirty-something, and starting popping out kids.

 

[Dreamer_D]

This thread strikes a chord with me.

My SO made it clear 14 years ago he wanted kids.
At the same time I made it clear I did not and if he really wants kids he must move on.
He stayed.

Even today I can tell he has enormous regrets.
We will be at his parents house holding a baby nephew or niece on his lap ... suddenly he'll start weeping.

It's heart wrenching, but I'm not going to just dump him 'for his own good'.
If that's his priority it is HIS place to leave our relationship.
At least that's how I see it, though the older I get the more I am less sure about many things.

I'm sorry that both of you have to deal with this in your relationship, Kenny It must be hard for your both.

***

It is completely possible to both love your partner and choose them with eyes wide open knowing they do not want kids and you do want kids, and at the same time feel sorrow about not having kids. Social psychologists call it an "approach-avoid" conflict, where you are drawn to the positives in a relationship -- love, shared interests, passion, connection -- and at the same time you want to avoid the negatives in the relationship -- lost opportunities for kids, for example. In my own life I experience an approach-avoid conflict about having a third child. My sons are awesome, of course another would be great! Kids are also hard on the pocketbook and rough on a marriage. Rewards-Costs. Approach-Avoid. Which do you choose?**

Kenny's SO and ILander's friend both chose to approach and hold onto the positives in their relationships. Those outweighed the negatives. But it doesn't change the fact that the negatives exist. Over time those negatives may fade in importance, or they may become more important! And if the rewards fade too, as is the case in a divorce, then wowee those negatives sure seem huge dont they?

People make choices every day like this in life, and in relationships. Sure, hindsight is 20-20. But its not particularly healthy to live that way, looking back and itemizing one's regrets. The fantasy of what "might have been" is just a fantasy, and of course it seems better than reality! All fantasies do.

**PS: I am in the "avoid" camp at present when it comes to a third child, in case anyone wonders