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newbie, please help!

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fstuff004

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
7
Hi, I've been looking around the site, and have learned so much. I initially wanted to buy my engagement ring online but there are just too many choices. My fiance and I went to a few stores today, looked at a few diamonds, and put down a deposit on a stone (not available in house yet). I went home, checked the HCA score, which is 4.1 and I'm starting to doubt my decision.

The stone is round cut
Weight: 1.22 carat
Color: J
Clarity: IF
GIA- 3X
Fluorescence: none

Table: 58%
Depth: 62.3%
Crown angle: 35.5
Pavilion angle: 41
Cutlet: none
Girdle: slight thick (faceted) 4%

I thought the price ($6700) is very reasonable for the size and clarity, but am I sacrificing too much on color and performance? I asked for a lower clarity and size, and higher color/cut, but was told that the value of diamonds, VS2 and below, depreciates more, is that correct? She showed me another diamond (1.04 carat, color: H, clarity: IF, GIA - 3X, table: 56%, depth: 60.8%) but the price is more than $8000, which is out of my budget. What should I ask for before I commit to it?

I really appreciate any advice.
 
Disclaimer: I'm a novice too.

It seems odd to match a J and an IF. If you really value clarity, I'd target a VS1 or VS2 and improve the color to a higher near colorless.

If you end up changing your mind on that diamond, you may consider trying to get your deposit back. If you've already given a deposit but change your mind on a diamond, it may limit your ability to negotiate.

Good luck! Also, you're very lucky that you and your girlfriend/fiance are shopping together ;) I'm still not 100% sure what my girlfriend wants!
 
Thanks Jason for the advice. I am actually okay with the color, dont care about clarity as long as it is clean under naked eyes, but I do care about the cut quality and the performance of the stone. The stone is GIA-3X, but the HCA is only 4.1, does it translate into poor performance? Is this a good buy even though the stone is lacking in cut quality?
 
Hi there- Did they have any other stones they could bring in? Would you really want to buy a stone just because it's cheap? Rather than buy something that is well cut? It's something that you are going to see EVERY day and believe me, you're gonna want to do the best you can with it, even if it means sacrificing size, never sacrifice cut quality.

I guess I'm wondering why you would put a deposit on a stone you haven't even seen yet and I would agree with Jason, if they are bringing this one in, why not have them bring some better candidates in to look at with higher color and give on clarity a little (G-H VS1-VS2 or even SI1). Even if you are OK with a J (and that's totally OK! It's personal preference) you could get a bigger stone if you dropped the clarity some.

There are 2 things I would suggest if you are concerned about performance and want to buy a stone in person rather than from an online vendor who provides performance information (like Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, Good Old Gold, James Allen...)

1- familiarlize yourself with ideal cut specs. Crown angle -34-35 (your pick is over at 35.5) Pavilion angle 40.6-41 (yours is at max 41 and has the double whammy of being paired with a steep crown), Depth- 60-62.3 Table - 54-58. Give them these numbers and say these are the kinds of stone specs you want to see.

2- spend $65 on the little Idealscope kit so you can check stone performance yourself. If I can use one, anyone can.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope
 
Thank you for the honest and informative opinion.

It was a rookie mistake. The store's owner is a friend's cousin so I trusted what she was telling me. I don't know what got me to ask if I need to put down the deposit, and of course she said yes :(sad . I called yesterday to see if she has/can bring in any other stone to look, the ones she mentioned are out of my budget, and none of them has clarity less than VVS2, since she only carries IF - VVS2.

I am looking online now to see if there is any better candidate. I may forgo the deposit if needed. Please help me find something in the $6000 range, round, color and clarity are not important, as long as the cut quality is good.

Again, I appreciate all the help.
 
fstuff004|1366210111|3428889 said:
Thank you for the honest and informative opinion.

It was a rookie mistake. The store's owner is a friend's cousin so I trusted what she was telling me. I don't know what got me to ask if I need to put down the deposit, and of course she said yes :(sad . I called yesterday to see if she has/can bring in any other stone to look, the ones she mentioned are out of my budget, and none of them has clarity less than VVS2, since she only carries IF - VVS2.

I am looking online now to see if there is any better candidate. I may forgo the deposit if needed. Please help me find something in the $6000 range, round, color and clarity are not important, as long as the cut quality is good.

Again, I appreciate all the help.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry fstuff! We've definitely seen the "friend of a friend" thing here many times and I have yet to see it turn out well. :( I hope you can get your deposit back!

You may want to start a new thread with a new title something like Help! Looking for MRB (modern round brilliant) $6K budget! and that will attract all the right sleuths for you.

I'm not as good at sleuthing out stones, preferring to just go with something I already know is going to perform well so here is one example from me, though if you start a new thread others with much better finding skills can probably find you something to fit.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.011-i-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104063998001
 
Whoa! Lots of judgments here :sick:

It's a GIA EX. It is NOT a doozy. You did NOT get screwed by an untrustworthy salesperson or anything like that. End of story.

Now, depending on how picky you are, there are variations within the EX range that may sway you to one set of parameters over another. This isn't addressing the IF thing - which I agree is strange, but if they only sell IF/VVS then high clarity is obviously something they value and by choosing to shop there you are choosing to espouse those values - nothing wrong with that if you value high-clarity/are willing to pay for higher clarity than your eyes will appreciate.

1. GIA rounds. A lot. Crown to 0.5deg, pav (up) to 0.2deg, LGF to 5%... those variations can make a significant difference in how a stone looks and plays with light. Those variations can also make a significant difference in HCA score - using 35.3 and 40.9 yields HCA of 2.9, 35.7/41 yields 4.7. Without more info than the GIA report provides we can't judge those nuances.

2. HCA was designed for one specific use: as a blunt weeding tool to help you weed through a giant inventory. It's not detailed enough to use as a selection tool - it just tells you whether a stone is "likely worth further investigation". It does NOT say that a stone that scores >2 is a flop, and it does NOT say that a stone that scores <2 is a winner, in both cases you have to investigate further. The premise is that you knowingly eliminate beautiful stones with marginal reports because, well, when you've got a hundred stones you've got to start somewhere!

3. Neither GIA/AGSL nor HCA consider optical symmetry at all (the radial symmetry of the reflections and reflections of reflections) - the symmetry grade on the report is "facet meet" symmetry of the 57/58 facets actually cut into the stone. Decent "facet meet" symmetry permits but does not imply excellent optical symmetry because of the way the labs grade symmetry, and the factors that symmetry is/isn't downgraded for... and excellent vs. poor optical symmetry has a huge effect on appearance and performance.


The point of all of this: The stone you picked has promising numbers. It could be gorgeous. Or not. We don't have enough info to judge either way. You don't HAVE an inventory of hundreds of stones so you don't have the luxury of knowingly tossing lovely stones aside just on HCA - you need to jump right into that "investigate further" part, and that means getting more info on the cut and looking at the other characteristics (more to consider than the numbers alone)
A) What's the report number and exact carat weight (x.xx)?
B) Can your vendor take some (clear, face-up) photos of the stone?
C) Do you plan to have it shipped out to look at in-person? I would strongly recommend it.
 
Thank you all for the advice.

The GIA number is 2136923130. The seller mentioned it is H & A but not indicated on the report. I still have hope for the stone, but I am more aware that I need to be careful and educate myself more before committing to buy it.

The stone will come in by the end of this week. I won't be able to look at it but my fiance will. The dilemma is he has no knowledge about diamond. I know it is strange, but we have been in this committed relationship for a long long time. Due to school and work, we are in long distance relationship, and we have limited time in our hands to really shop around. He works 6 days a week, 12 hrs shift day, and in a stressful working environment, so I can't really expect him to do the research on his own.

So here is the plan. My fiance will look at the stone, and compare it to other stones that she has in store. If it looks decent to his naked eyes, he'll pay for it, but will ask for at least 15 days return period. I'll get to see it, probably get an appraisal or get an ideal scope and see if I like it. Does this sound good?

Thanks!
 
To a rookie (as I am one too), I don't think IF or VVS2 is necessary. Won't be able to appreciate it for the premium that you are paying for it, thats why I am sticking to VS1/VS2 and maybe SI1 even for my e-ring. Not like we are going to be looking at the diamond through a scope every day, so willing to go down on clarity a bit. As long as it shines and sparkles, thats all that matters to a rookie like me, thats why I would rather go up in Cut quality.

Suggest you look at:

Cut: Excellent/Very Good
Color: G/H
Clarity: VS1/VS2

GIA 3X is great but a stone that is not 3X doesn't mean it cannot be a beautiful stone either.

I think you will have a lot of choices with those specs and within your price range. A lot of the online stores have great customer service, you can ask them about the stone and have them put it on hold while they send you a picture for you to make the decision on. Most have atleast 30 day return too.

Blue Nile
Good Old Gold
Brian Gavin
James Allen
Zoara (where I bought from)

All are good online dealers that members had have positive experiences with. Good luck!
 
fstuff004|1366310915|3429930 said:
Thank you all for the advice.

The GIA number is 2136923130. The seller mentioned it is H & A but not indicated on the report. I still have hope for the stone, but I am more aware that I need to be careful and educate myself more before committing to buy it.

The stone will come in by the end of this week. I won't be able to look at it but my fiance will. The dilemma is he has no knowledge about diamond. I know it is strange, but we have been in this committed relationship for a long long time. Due to school and work, we are in long distance relationship, and we have limited time in our hands to really shop around. He works 6 days a week, 12 hrs shift day, and in a stressful working environment, so I can't really expect him to do the research on his own.

So here is the plan. My fiance will look at the stone, and compare it to other stones that she has in store. If it looks decent to his naked eyes, he'll pay for it, but will ask for at least 15 days return period. I'll get to see it, probably get an appraisal or get an ideal scope and see if I like it. Does this sound good?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The report wouldn't indicate H&A anyway - you'd need a pic through a H&A scope.

Your plan sounds good! It's great that you'll see the stone as well before you're committed to it - numbers on papers aren't worth anything if you don't like the way the stone looks and performs IRL :sun:
 
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