Newbie looking for diamonds

[ellenwu]

We're newbies looking to upgrade my diamond.

We're looking for an 1.5 carret diamond and was offered by a friend who is a jewler.

1.55 Caret weight
F Color
VVS2
Strong Floresant Blue
for $12700
Ideal cut

Can someone offer us an opinion? We need all the help we can get.

Also, we want to get rid of my current 1.01 caret F color VVS1 diamond and get some cash back. What is the best way to sell the diamond.

Thanks in advance.

Peter & Ellen

 

[james100]

I think that it will be helpful if you provide the dimensons and the angles..otherwise no one here can give you an accurate opinion.

 

[Giangi]

Also, the strong blue fluorescence it not that desirable in an F color diamond. Does it look cloudy when seen in bright sunlight?

 

[ellenwu]

all that we know is that the table is 59 59 and very good, very good.

1.55Caret Weight
F Color
VVS2

That's all the information that we have. We hav'nt seen the diamond so we don't know if it looks cloudy in direct sunlight.

Why is Strong Floresant Blue not Desirable in a F Color diamond.

Thank you guys for any input.

Peter Liao

 

[ellenwu]

We need to decide fairly soon. So any input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance again.

Peter & Ellen

 

[Giangi]

I'm sorry but 59% table is out of ideal range, be it EGL or AGS. Who told you it's an ideal cut? Also, is it certified? By whom?
Strong blue fluorescence isn't (or at least is not usually)desirable in an F-Color stone because it could make it look slightly cloudy or milky in bright sunlight.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/14/2003 11:40:26 PM ellenwu wrote:

We need to decide fairly soon. So any input would be appreciated.
----------------

This is going to sound fresh, but I'll ask anyway.......why? Why do you have to decide soon? That's how people make choices they regret.....by making a decision without enough information at hand.

If you need to make a decision and you cannot get meaningful information from the jeweler, there is only one decision in my mind......pass on the stone. Please do not be pressured into buying a stone you don't know enough about. That's a lot of money to spend only to end up being disappointed later on.

If you don't have the time to do the legwork now, then you don't have the time to properly buy a diamond.

 

[fire&ice]

Strong blue in a f colored stone is usually discounted. Why is another question - and one several posts & articles have been written on.

I think you need to drop 10 & punt. In other words, start over from the beginning. An F VVS stone is not the best of value. You are paying a premium for the clarity which is graded under a 10x loupe. Most vs2's or for that matter SI1 are eye clean. Also, color is graded face down. Once set face up, a well cut Round Brilliant stone will be plenty colorless in a G color. Also, educate yourself w/ some tutorials about cut. Cut *is* the art of the diamond.

Good luck & take your time. Diamonds are like buses, there's always another one coming around.

 

[ellenwu]

giangi: It's certified by GIA.

Thanks all for your input. I guess we'll wait for the next bus.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 12:06:55 PM ellenwu wrote:

giangi: It's certified by GIA.

Thanks all for your input. I guess we'll wait for the next bus.

----------------

This bus may be for you; but, you should never feel pressured into taking it. You have plenty of options out there. Explore them. Also, in the "Show Me the Ring" section of this forum, you will see many different color grades of rings. Check it out.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 12:11:09 PM fire&ice wrote:










This bus may be for you; but, you should never feel pressured into taking it
----------------

Thanks.....that's what I was trying to say, too. This is TOTALLY on the mark, and I emphatically agree with it!

 

[ellenwu]

fire and ice:

Is 59 59 that bad in a diamond?

I got that impression from the other reply.

Peter

 

[magna2]

Ellen,

Like anything that is offered for sale and the saleperson say to you that you need to make a decision "now", walk away from the deal especially if it is from so-called friends-in-the-business. Sales folks make their living on sales and some would not hesitate in selling their own mother into servitude (not to disparage all sales people - I just don't agree with those that utilizes high sales pressure techniques be it subtle or not). The freind-in-the-business see you for what you are - a pigeon that will not question their true intent given your supposedly personal realtionship.

Like Fire&Ice stated, the diamond could have been the perfect diamond for you but don't feel pressure into buying anything. BTW, there really is not enough information provided to gauge whether the diamond is good or a dud. But is safe to say that it was not an "ideal" cut diamond. Therefore it should give you more cause for concern and question whether the so-called friend really have your best interest in mind.

Buy wisely. Buy informed.

 

[fire&ice]

There are those in the trade that believe that perfect proportions for a diamond is 60 table 60 depth - so your 59/59 may be close to this *particular* ideal. This is not necessarily true & has been debated whether this proportion returns the most light.

For cut information, several other things need to be viewed. What's the polish, symmetry, measurements, girdle & ideally, the crown & pavillion angles.

Go to gemappraisers.com & see their chart for the proper measurements & cut grade assigned.

 

[ellenwu]

Magna2:

It's not that they're giving us pressure. It's that we've stalled them due a little too long and am kinda embarrased to stall them any longer. They did say if we don't like this one, there will be others in a week or 2. What other information should I get...????

It's just that we did'nt have anyone to get a second opinion till we found this great board.

I currently have a 1 carret that my husband got me about 8 years ago. And fortunately, we're doing well enough that I want to upgrade to a bigger and better diamond

for our 10th anniversary a couple of month back. But the diamond prices seems higher then so we waited till now.

Thank you all for the input.

Ellen

 

[ellenwu]

Also, We're not really concerned that they make money on the deal... They do do this for a living. We're just looking for a better deal then the rest...

 

[ellenwu]

Fire & ice:

I know that the polish and Symmtry is Very Good Very Good from GIA.

Does that make a difference?

Ellen

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 12:25:14 PM ellenwu wrote:

Is 59 59 that bad in a diamond?

I got that impression from the other reply.

----------------

Giangi's comment didn't say that a 59/59 diamond is "bad".....he said only that it doesn't meet the parameters of an "ideal" cut diamond (and you were told it was ideal)

 

[fire&ice]

Yes, vg vg is good. But, with cut - you really have to look at all the numbers. The measurements of the stone can tell you quite a bit. You may have a very thick girdle (which can hide quite a bit of the carat weight). You may have a very thin girdle at risk of chipping.

Also, JMHO - I'd go to a G/H VS2 stone in a great cut in 2 carats - now that's an upgrade!

 

[aljdewey]

The polish and symmetry being VG......that's a good start.




You really need to get the angles F&I mentioned. How a diamond returns light (which is what makes it sparkle) is dependent on the relationship between the pavilion and the crown. Think of it like mirrors in a fun house.....if you move just one mirror slightly, it changes what you see greatly.




The crown/pavilion angles will help tell you how your diamond should be expected to perform.




Also, if you can give us an idea of the budget, I'm sure we'd be happy to find some examples of stones for you.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 12:50:52 PM fire&ice wrote:

Also, JMHO - I'd go to a G/H VS2 stone in a great cut in 2 carats - now that's an upgrade!
----------------

Also true.....if you are a size nut, you can definitely move up in weight without sacrificing a thing visually as F&I suggests.

 

[ellenwu]

aljdewey:

I am on the petite side and we tried a ring on with a 2 caret stone and my husband did'nt like the way it looked on me. My last ring was a f color vvs1 and I don't want to go under that in terms of quality of stone. We're looking to spend under 12000. Does that help?

Ellen

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 12:58:07 PM ellenwu wrote:

aljdewey:

I am on the petite side and we tried a ring on with a 2 caret stone and my husband did'nt like the way it looked on me. My last ring was a f color vvs1 and I don't want to go under that in terms of quality of stone. We're looking to spend under 12000. Does that help?

Ellen----------------

It will *grow* on him. More important - how did you like it?

The key in Al's statement is *visual* appearance. If you want to know the stone is F/VVS1 on paper, then go for it. But, visually you will see no difference in quality between a VVS1 stone & a VS2 stone. You will see *very little* difference between F & G.

 

[magna2]

Peter & Ellen,

At a minimum, you would need to get the diamond dimensions, total depth, table size, crown and pavillion angles. Crown and pavillion percentages, and girdle size would also help. With depth, table size, crown and pavillion angles you can plug those into the HCA (via the cut advisor link). That will enable you to do an initial assessment of the potential performance of the diamond. With the other information, you can utilize the AGA Cut Grade Charts (http://www.gemappraisers.com/) to determine the quality of the cut.

My recommendation to you both would be to go with a better cut than strictly going with just color and clarity. You can still get a great diamond with a lower clarity (perhaps in the VS1/VS2 range) so that you do not need to compromise on cut. By going down in clarity, you may even find that you can go up in color (say the E range?) or even in size.

As for selling your current diamond, you get more money if you sold privately (meaning to another person looking for a diamond - try eBay). You might even see if you can trade it in with the jeweler that you are buying your upgraded diamond. Sadly to say that if you sell it to a jeweler, don't be surprised if they only offer you about a third of what you paid. It is just the nature of the diamond trade since it is not really a openly tradeable commodity. Best wishes and happy tenth.

 

[ellenwu]

I thought it was a bit on the big side too so I rather stick to 1.5. I will do all those today and get a better idea of what this diamond is about.
As far as trade, This jewler will take my trade either on consignment and I will get back what I paid for it? or they will buy it straight out for 10%less then what I paid..

Thank you all for all your input.

Ellen

 

[ellenwu]

Also, We have picked out and bought the setting which is the past present future design with 2 smaller diamond on the side. They put a 1.5 CZ on it for the vowel renewel ceremony and it just looks beautiful. I will post pic of the ring once we get the right diamond for it.

Ellen

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 1:07:11 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
On 10/15/2003 12:58:07 PM ellenwu wrote:

If you want to know the stone is F/VVS1 on paper, then go for it. But, visually you will see no difference in quality between a VVS1 stone & a VS2 stone. You will see *very little* difference between F & G.----------------

Those that know me on the board know that this is my regular friendly public service announcement.

I mostly say this because people have a preconcieved *perception* of quality, when the reality can be quite different. And the money involved substantial.

While a certain premium is placed on a fine/ideal make, it is not in proportion to the premium on color & clarity. It's this skew that I relate to you because it is the *cut* that makes the most perceivable difference in quality appearance.

Read the tutorial here & some other vendor sites so you can get more of a handle on parameters to look for.

Good luck & congrats on you upcoming anniversary.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 1:29:33 PM ellenwu wrote:

Also, We have picked out and bought the setting which is the past present future design with 2 smaller diamond on the side. They put a 1.5 CZ on it for the vowel renewel ceremony and it just looks beautiful. I will post pic of the ring once we get the right diamond for it.

Ellen
----------------

Oh wait a minute - what are the gradings of the side stones? You may have to stick w/ F for a match. But, definitely no worries about changing the clarity.

 

[ellenwu]

Fire & Ice:

Thank you very very much for your input. I will get that information for the cut today and check out the cut. The color and clarity is basicly for me only.
Our anniversay was 4 month ago, but the diamond prices we were quoted by them was alot higher then ( they were also the ones that advise us we should wait a while)

Again, Thank you all for your input and answering some amature questions. It's like finding alot of knowledgeable friends. I will be back to post the decision and pic if we do get it. And even if we don't get this one. at least on the next one, I know the questions to ask and the website to go to see how good the cut is.

Ellen