Newbie Buying an ER Diamond...I need opinions, help and direction.

[Diamond Consultant]

Hi again Mosooma,

My recommendation is to stay away from branded diamonds. The most important thing is the certifying lab. Again, I recommend GIA or AGS. These stones hold their value the best, and you know the grade is reliable. All you have to do is figure out the specifications of what makes a diamond qualified to be an "H&A stone" or Other brand. You will pay a premium for diamonds of this caliber, but you don''t have to pay a high one.

I was just at Harry Winston today, and the qualifications for their diamonds are:

D-E-F, Colorless Only

Flawless to VS1 clarity only

Excellent Cut only

*There are many diamonds out there that you can get, and that fit this criteria, but you won''t have to pay a Harry Winston Premium for them. The same goes for any other brand of diamonds, except for the ones with exclusive modified cuts.

 

[Mosooma]

Regular Guy,

You da man.

When I go and look in B&Ms, they seem surprised that I have any clue of the terminology or other important details. I knew the basics before I began looking through PS. I''ve been reading/reviewing PS for about 1.5 weeks (maybe a lil'' more) and my knowledge and awareness is increasing.

I''m definitely encouraged by the stone I found today. There is one caveat. There''s no inscription/laserscription on the girdle. However, the store does "fingerprinting" of angles/facets/proportions or something. Is the lack of inscription a red flag or deal breaker?

 

[Regular Guy]

DC,

You might at least become somewhat familiar with what we mean by branded diamonds here. Typically, we do not mean either Harry Winston or Heart on Fire, but rather instead, White Flash or Infinity. With these, you do buy vetting and value, with a somewhat modest premium. Likewise, per your comments, you invest in analysis of H&A that are not tossed off, but defined and, again, vetted.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 3/16/2009 7:18:40 PM
Author: Mosooma
I''m definitely encouraged by the stone I found today. There is one caveat. There''s no inscription/laserscription on the girdle. However, the store does ''fingerprinting'' of angles/facets/proportions or something. Is the lack of inscription a red flag or deal breaker?

no. Inscriptions are inscribed by GIA upon requested by the jeweler for a fee, so some choose to do that, some don''t. They can be polished off, the carbon of the inscription can be wash off making it less obvious visually. The best safeguard is already in the stone in the form of its inclusions. The inclusions plot is a sort of fingerprinting, each is unique.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 3/16/2009 7:18:40 PM
Author: Mosooma
Regular Guy,

You da man.

When I go and look in B&Ms, they seem surprised that I have any clue of the terminology or other important details. I knew the basics before I began looking through PS. I''ve been reading/reviewing PS for about 1.5 weeks (maybe a lil'' more) and my knowledge and awareness is increasing.

I''m definitely encouraged by the stone I found today. There is one caveat. There''s no inscription/laserscription on the girdle. However, the store does ''fingerprinting'' of angles/facets/proportions or something. Is the lack of inscription a red flag or deal breaker?

Aw shucks.

Re the absence of an inscription....I think you''ll find that is the more common standard of practice GIA uses for diamonds that are 1 carat and larger. If smaller, their standard of practice is instead to include an inscription. Typically, again, in trade for the lack of inscription in the larger diamond, you have a chart of inclusions to help identify. Most here find this to be sufficient, or, in the buying process, you could decide to engage either GIA (perhaps with your jeweler''s help) or a third party (sometimes an appraiser) to apply an after market inscription. Frankly, I find you really need to trust your jeweler when you bring it to them for service. You CAN whip out the loupe and compare...before giving & after receiving, for either the inscription (easier) or the inclusions...but it kinda takes moxie to do this, and in practice, I think it''s rarely done.

 

[Diamond Consultant]

Hi Ira,

Thanks for the education. I agree that those sites do provide excellent value.

Hey Mosooma,

Here are some diamonds I found from my local guy:

1) 1.31 Ct, H-SI1, Triple-X, GIA Certified. Depth 61.5, Table 58, Dimensions 7.0x7.04x4.32. Price $6,400.

2) 1.01 Ct, D-SI1, Triple-X, GIA Cert. Depth 61.9, Table 56, Dimensions 6.39x6.43x3.97. Price $5,745.

3) 1.11 Ct, E-VS2, Triple-X, GIA Cert. Depth 61.8, Table 55, Dimensions 6.66x6.70x4.13. Price $6,955.

The other two I listed earlier had fluorescence. Fluorescence is not good for colorless diamonds, but slight or faint fluorescence may help a G or H color look whiter.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 3/16/2009 7:57:38 PM
Author: Diamond Consultant
The other two I listed earlier had fluorescence. Fluorescence is not good for colorless diamonds, but slight or faint fluorescence may help a G or H color look whiter.

That is a personal preference. Fluor in colorless diamond in the early days before 70s command a premium. During the 70s diamond investment craze, the opposite becomes the norm that is still used in the diamond pricing today. Strong and Very Strong Blue fluor very occasionally can result in a hazy/oily look. I personally like them and owned 2 VSB stones that do not have these detrimental characteristics and glows blue in UV light and turns slightly bluish in the sun.

 

[Diamond Consultant]

I agree that it is a matter of preference. Those characteristics you mentioned are pretty cool in my opinion. I was just going but the diamond market''s norm. They usually give slightly lower prices for fluorescent stones these days.

 

[Mosooma]

Not to convolute the thread...but I''ve posted some pics of the setting and band that''s 1st place on my list.

 

[Mosooma]

Here''s the band.

 

[Diamond Consultant]

Beautiful, Elegant, Timeless. Excellent Choice.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/16/2009 6:55:52 PM
Author: Diamond Consultant
Hi Lorelei,

These stones are available from my local jeweler. He doesn''t have a website. I know him to be the best in Orange County, CA. I don''t think I''m allowed to give his name, am I?

Christian

Hi Christan,

Going by your username, are you in the industry?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/16/2009 7:28:42 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 3/16/2009 7:18:40 PM
Author: Mosooma
Regular Guy,

You da man.

When I go and look in B&Ms, they seem surprised that I have any clue of the terminology or other important details. I knew the basics before I began looking through PS. I''ve been reading/reviewing PS for about 1.5 weeks (maybe a lil'' more) and my knowledge and awareness is increasing.

I''m definitely encouraged by the stone I found today. There is one caveat. There''s no inscription/laserscription on the girdle. However, the store does ''fingerprinting'' of angles/facets/proportions or something. Is the lack of inscription a red flag or deal breaker?

Aw shucks.

Re the absence of an inscription....I think you''ll find that is the more common standard of practice GIA uses for diamonds that are 1 carat and larger. If smaller, their standard of practice is instead to include an inscription. Typically, again, in trade for the lack of inscription in the larger diamond, you have a chart of inclusions to help identify. Most here find this to be sufficient, or, in the buying process, you could decide to engage either GIA (perhaps with your jeweler''s help) or a third party (sometimes an appraiser) to apply an after market inscription. Frankly, I find you really need to trust your jeweler when you bring it to them for service. You CAN whip out the loupe and compare...before giving & after receiving, for either the inscription (easier) or the inclusions...but it kinda takes moxie to do this, and in practice, I think it''s rarely done.

Ditto, also depending on the clarity grade you choose this can make a difference.

 

[Mosooma]

Is it fair and commonplace for a jeweler to mark/list stones at whatever the Rap price was when he/she purchased the stone...and then use that Rap price as a starting point for negotiations with a customer?

Here''s some background...I looked in many many stores and had only found one bridal set I liked (found it at Jared). At the time, it was my number one choice. About a week ago I found a Scott Kay bridal set (the one listed this post). I absolutely loved the set, but the set was over budget for what I wanted to pay. The ER setting is $2050 and the band is $1670. The sales guy asked me, "If price were no object, which would you choose; the Scott Kay set or the Jared set?" And I said I''d pick the SK set. To make a long story a little shorter, I looked at some stones to go along with the setting. One was an IGI-certed 1.2,G,SI2 round brilliant for $7899. The cert date is 9/23/08. He said that SK pieces can''t really be discounted, so he offered to sell me the whole "package" for $8750 (tax not included). In that setup, the diamond was priced at $5030.

Is $5030 a fair price for the diamond? Assuming the Rap price was really $7899 when the stone was purchased and assuming and it''s a very good quality stone? Can someone possibly post the Rap price for Oct/Nov of 2008, or is that against forum rules? Now that you''ve answered those few questions, check the cert and see what you think of the stone. The cert doesn''t list the Depth %, so I tried appoximating it from the measurements. Using a depth % of 61.8 the HCA score is 2.1.

 

[Mosooma]

Any thoughts???