newb with an SI2 concern...

[daniel456]

hello everyone! i am so happy i found this forum....anyway, here is my [brief] story:

back in 2001, i purchased a diamond solitaire for my then ex-gf. it was "nice" by my standards at the time. i piad $3800 CDN total for a 0.75ct, VS2, H round diamond in a 19k portuguese gold setting. the cut is listed as GOOD, but i have doubts to that as diamond just doesnt have that "fire"; the measurements are 5.63x6.66x3.75 which seems too tall for a GOOD stone. its rated by gemscan and after reading these forums for a bit, that was a oversight i should have been more aware of.

forward to today: im ready to purchase a new ring for my gf. i have more money now and have learned a thing or two about diamonds since then. i have my eye on this beautiful 1.02ct, H, SI2 (totally eye clean....to me!) with an IDEAL cut. once again, this is a gemscan rating. they are offering it to me at $6500 CDN total (tiffany setting + taxes included).

here are my questions:

1. the jeweller has offered to give me 100% credit on my old ring as long as i upsize, which i intend to do. i am really happy with that i had it in mind that i was going to take a big loss upon trade in. is this normal practice in the industry? should this raise any red flags?

2. the new stone is an SI2, but the flaws are not peppered and seem to be slight feathering only. once again, i am not a pro, so maybe i am missing something important. i plan to take the ring to harold weinstein for review (after reading about his service on the forum). do most jewellers let you take the stone and get it reviewed independently? i would assume a deposit or credit card would need to be left (just in case).

3. i KNOW that i can get great deals + beautiful diamonds online, but what about my old ring? what can i do with it and not take such a loss if i opt to use another jeweller. i feel "tied" to my jeweller because of this old ring.

thank you!
daniel

 

[Mara]

Many jewelers have trade-in policies if you spend XYZ amount of money over the trade-in...which it sounds like you are planning to do, so that would not raise a red flag for me.

I guess I would just say to focus on education and getting yourself a stellar stone this time around. Many jewelers CAN find you an ideal stone with great light return and probably great arrows if you know what to tell them you are looking for and know how to shop. Can you get an idealScope for $30 online? That will help you weed through the stones that he has or ones that he calls in.

I love a good SI2 stone, but it depends on who grades it, and what kind of SI2 it is....I have a J SI2 and it is SOOO eye-clean, the only thing I have ever found in it was a super tiny tiny tiny pinpoint black item off to the right of the table but I only catch it when my eye is very close to the stone and I am looking for it. Not normal viewing, plus I kind of like it. That said, white inclusions are most likely preferred for not seeing them. I would definitely get it appraised as you were talking of doing, but if you like the stone with your eyes and it has good numbers and is eye-clean, then it would sound promising.

Do you have specs on this SI2 ? If so, please post them. But again, shop wisely this time around. You have found PS, now put it to work for you to help you select the best stone for your money this time. Good luck.

 

[Mara]

And here is a link that may help you, to a showing of all stones that are SI clarity from PS''ers....

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/lets-post-our-si-stones-here.36489/

As you can see, for the discriminating buyer there CAN be great deals with SI stones.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/23/2005 1:29:04 PM
Author:daniel456


0.75ct, VS2, H

5.63x6.66x3.75 which seems too tall for a GOOD stone.

What shape is it? the diameter variation makes me think.. not round brilliant. But what? For most other shapes the depth (67%) is not that bad.

I am not very familiar with GemScan cut grading. The presentation on their site (Here) sounds reasonable but rather sketchy - as usual. Many stores would label and price diamonds for cut quality with even less detail considered (just GIA numbers, without seeing the stones etc.). So Gemscan may not be all that bad. Hope someone knows more about them.


On the other side, what shape are you after? What do you expect from the cut?

Depending on this, there may be some way to obtain some better cut stones that have more to show for their cut quality. Chances are your jeweler could provide such stones too - as long as they know what your expectations are... For princess and round cuts the AGS grades seem quite effective from the feedback amassed here. And there are other tools for cut grading that may be available locally. Most such tools are not meant to be used by shoppers: the Ideal Scope is an exception to the rule. And perhaps all reflector 'scopes' qualify - as long as they are available for purchase and inexpensive.

My 2c

 

[daniel456]

wow....thanks for the quick replies!

i do not feel qualified to be able to tell one from ideal stone from another. i think an objective third party should evaluate the stone. i really like it, the price is right, but i just want to confirm that i am actually paying for what im buying.

there are actually two S12 stones that are identical except for the cut ratings: IDEAL vs VERY GOOD. the price diff is only $200, so its better for me to get the ideal. they are both eye clean, but i will need to look at them again. i have no specs on the stones except for what gemscan supplies (which is not much).

valeria101: the shape is round brilliant. as for expectations, i just want a beautiful stone that lights up a room.

i actually just called usa certed diamonds....hopefully they can help me out!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/23/2005 2:19:02 PM
Author: daniel456

valeria101: the shape is round brilliant.

Hm... over 1.05:1 max/min diameter it would have been called 'oval' on a GIA lab report... Pretty unusual to see that.

The Gemscan site mentioned crown and pavilion angles for the ideal round cut grade (cited below). Are those on the reports?

 

[daniel456]

no....those numbers are not on the gemscan report.

its actually a pretty simple report: detail, ID, shape, measurements, weight, clarity, colour and cut. its also signed by a GIA cert. gemologist and there is a replacement value of over 2.5 times what i paid.

should i post a pic of the report?

 

[drk]

Hi,

When we were looking in Toronto, we found AGS certed diamonds at the Jewel Case (ground floor shop in the building on Dundas square). Perry was very patient and helpful, and did have a hearts and arrows viewer he used to show us the stones. Seemed to have decent prices too, from what I can remember. We ended up buying from Good Old Gold, but I had bought an idealscope online too in case I went shopping for diamonds again in Toronto.

I would think you should be able to take the diamond for appraisal with a deposit on the stone. I also remember reading of one person who bought through USA Certed, and he said that they brought a stone into Canada for him, with the agreement that if it matched up to the cert when he took it for appraisal, he''d buy it from them.

Good luck with your search!
Kate

 

[Mara]

please post the numbers on your GIA cert.

personally i don''t trust others to determine flat out what is ''ideal'' or ''very good'' cut for me, i can do it myself and then get an expert to confirm what i probably already know.

i''d be curious as to what these two stones specs are and how someone can gauge them ID or VG. just curious!

 

[moremoremore]

Daniel... I think Val means the stone you have... at 5.63x6.66 it can't be a rb...is that a typo?

Vendors frequently let you trade in...they get to give you what you paid but can sell it at today's prices...and if they are a 'stocking' vendor...and just swapping inventory...they don't make out so badly...but either do you!

Have the vendor send the stone out for appraisal...and then all of your questions will be answered...and remember to trust your eyes too!

ps ... Daniel, a report being signed by a "gia gemologist" isn't the same as having an actual cert...just be cautious...

 

[daniel456]

moremoremore: oh no! i posted the wrong numbers.....its measurements are 5.63x5.66x3.75. as for the vendor sending the stone out, they will just send it to gemscan again...not exactly a vote of confidence for me.

mara: i agree with what you are saying. how can i trust the dealer/gemscan to determine if its VG or ID or crap? an independent 3rd party is the only option.

i spoke to someone at USA Cert and they will put me in contact with a toronto-area jeweller (by the name of Victor...can anyone confirm this guy???) that can buy my ring and sell me a beautiful GIA cert stone.

 

[Gonzodogg]

Date: 12/23/2005 3:57:15 PM
Author: daniel456
moremoremore: oh no! i posted the wrong numbers.....its measurements are 5.63x5.66x3.75.

That makes a lot more sense.

 

[moremoremore]

LOL...that would have been one funky lookin'' round!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/23/2005 3:57:15 PM
Author: daniel456

oh no! i posted the wrong numbers.....its measurements are 5.63x5.66x3.75.

Oh... good... The oval-round sounded quite scary.

With the typical table, depth, size, and girdle stats quite a bit remains untold about cut quality. Extreme values don't leave much room for any combination of angles to yield a look comparable to what is considered 'best' for round brilliants (say, I'd run from depth and tables more than 65%, or depth under 50% ... or extremely thick girdle). But hopefully none of that crept into the 'ideal cut' range of any cut grading standard, gem Scan included.

Mara is right to say that she would not let others do the grading (without disclosing on what ground for the particular stone). This may be part of the local Pricescope 'culture' but I subscribe too.

There are a few Canadians posting (aside the forum's administrators

), hopefully some would have went the same way as you intend.

Best of luck!

 

[RockDoc]

ANA

RE; Oval -Round


That is called a ROVAL!

Rockdoc