New USPS carrier lost my ring, might lose her job...

[diamondseeker2006]

It's not the seller's fault that USPS "lost" the package. I am not sure why Paypal would refund for an undelivered item this soon, either??? Don't you have to wait a certain amount of time to allow for a delivery?

If I were a seller, I would also be hesitant to refund before USPS allows for the claim of lost package to be made.

 

[ChristineRose]

It's not the seller's fault that USPS "lost" the package. I am not sure why Paypal would refund for an undelivered item this soon, either??? Don't you have to wait a certain amount of time to allow for a delivery?

If I were a seller, I would also be hesitant to refund before USPS allows for the claim of lost package to be made.

She has waited a certain amount of time--the package was tracked and had a hard delivery date and the post office admits that it was out for delivery and that the carrier disposed of it improperly. Whatever else happened to it, it was not delayed in the mail.

There's a chance that the package will be found in the pile of undeliverable mail or that the carrier will admit she stole it and give it back. But that has nothing to do with the seller's obligation to refund her money and file the insurance claim, per the post office's own instructions.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It's not the seller's fault that USPS "lost" the package. I am not sure why Paypal would refund for an undelivered item this soon, either??? Don't you have to wait a certain amount of time to allow for a delivery?

If I were a seller, I would also be hesitant to refund before USPS allows for the claim of lost package to be made.

She has waited a certain amount of time--the package was tracked and had a hard delivery date and the post office admits that it was out for delivery and that the carrier disposed of it improperly. Whatever else happened to it, it was not delayed in the mail.

There's a chance that the package will be found in the pile of undeliverable mail or that the carrier will admit she stole it and give it back. But that has nothing to do with the seller's obligation to refund her money and file the insurance claim, per the post office's own instructions.

I am totally on her side and am 100% sure she will get her money back. But if I were the seller, I would want some official communication from the PO that the item is lost so that they know they can file the claim (which they are required to wait for 21 days unless the fraud dept says sooner). Filing a paypal claim will be a negative mark towards the seller, so I would absolutely talk with the seller before doing that and try to come to an agreement on the refund since the lost package was certainly not their fault, either.

 

[AdaBeta27]

Except that the $250 has been bumped up to a bigger dollar number now, I think most of this guide still applies. It's been a while since I had to go through this process but the bottom line is that if the ebay item cost over "x" dollars it must be sent with Signature required, and if the recipient didn't sign, there is no valid proof of deliver. The buyer will be refunded if the item doesn't get delivered. Yes, the buyer can wait 45 days to open a claim. It's up to the OP whether she wants to wait or open a claim now. If I thought it was actually lost or misplaced I might wait and also file that form that the writer of this guide mentioned, for lost mail. If my instincts said "stolen" I might not wait very long because I want my money back and there's no sense beating a dead horse.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Package-Didnt-Arrive-or-is-Lost-DONT-GIVE-UP-/10000000001678904/g.html

 

[ChristineRose]

I am totally on her side and am 100% sure she will get her money back. But if I were the seller, I would want some official communication from the PO that the item is lost so that they know they can file the claim (which they are required to wait for 21 days unless the fraud dept says sooner). Filing a paypal claim will be a negative mark towards the seller, so I would absolutely talk with the seller before doing that and try to come to an agreement on the refund since the lost package was certainly not their fault, either.

The way the seller will get official communication from the PO is by filing the claim. My understanding was that the 21 days is the time the PO will give itself to clean it all up. This link tells me that the seller needs to wait 15 days.

If it was to arrive Saturday the 23rd, and the seller sent it Wednesday the 21st, then the 15 day grace period is almost up.

Legally the ring still belongs to the seller and once the claim is filed, it will not go to the OP even if it is found. I guess I wouldn't complain if the seller wanted to wait until the end of the week to see if the PO shakes it out of their innards. But otherwise the seller is asking the OP for a loan. It sucks for the seller, but the seller pays for the insurance because the seller is the one who gets hit in these situations and the seller needs to manage their business risks.

 

[ennui]

Since the OP spoke with USPS Fraud on Friday, if it were me, I'd give it a few more days.

If the carrier was saying she'd have to pay out of pocket for the lost item, I wonder if she used to work for UPS.

Unfortunately, I suspect the carrier delivered it to the wrong address, and someone got a nice surprise. I think whoever received the books delivered them. I've done that with packages delivered to me that weren't mine, I walk them over to the correct address if it's close.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am totally on her side and am 100% sure she will get her money back. But if I were the seller, I would want some official communication from the PO that the item is lost so that they know they can file the claim (which they are required to wait for 21 days unless the fraud dept says sooner). Filing a paypal claim will be a negative mark towards the seller, so I would absolutely talk with the seller before doing that and try to come to an agreement on the refund since the lost package was certainly not their fault, either.

The way the seller will get official communication from the PO is by filing the claim. My understanding was that the 21 days is the time the PO will give itself to clean it all up. This link tells me that the seller needs to wait 15 days.

If it was to arrive Saturday the 23rd, and the seller sent it Wednesday the 21st, then the 15 day grace period is almost up.

Legally the ring still belongs to the seller and once the claim is filed, it will not go to the OP even if it is found. I guess I wouldn't complain if the seller wanted to wait until the end of the week to see if the PO shakes it out of their innards. But otherwise the seller is asking the OP for a loan. It sucks for the seller, but the seller pays for the insurance because the seller is the one who gets hit in these situations and the seller needs to manage their business risks.

Yes, it is almost time to file anyway. I was just emphasizing that she might want to give the seller the choice of refunding by a certain date or else she will file the Paypal claim which will be a negative for the seller. I just wouldn't do that without telling the seller first.

 

[sisxixon]

Hi everyone,

I'll follow up with USPS Consumer Affairs on Monday and see how high up the chain of command I can pursue this.

The seller is now asking me if I'm sure the ring isn't with the Post Office, which is frustrating me since I've updated him daily about my inquiry and have spent so much time physically going to the Post Office and on the phone trying to track this down. Three different supervisors have looked for this package now.

He says again that he will file after 21 days (not sure where he is getting this number from, so I've sent him the links shared here). Nothing has turned up over the weekend. Some part of me still hopes it will, just so I can drop all of this and move on. Almost all of the situations here are making my skin crawl:

If she misdelivered, either one of my neighbors has it and opened my mail and decided to keep it (UGH!), or they are on vacation and have their mail put on hold and it IS somewhere at the Post Office still, or stuck in their mailbox.

If she stole it, she's still delivering my mail and I need to get a PO Box before I want to buy anything of value again that gets sent over USPS.

I've started to check Craigslist and the local pawn shop that lists on eBay -- the ring hasn't turned up there either. I'm considering filing a police report so at least the local pawn shops get flagged if it turns up there-- has anyone had any experience with that?

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

My original e-ring was stolen. The local PD said that people will pawn the ring wayyy outside of the local area and there is a very slim chance that I would ever recover the ring. And they were right. And technically I do not think you can file a report as you never took ownership (it was never delivered to you), but I may be wrong.

 

[ChristineRose]

My original e-ring was stolen. The local PD said that people will pawn the ring wayyy outside of the local area and there is a very slim chance that I would ever recover the ring. And they were right. And technically I do not think you can file a report as you never took ownership (it was never delivered to you), but I may be wrong.

Accountant here.

The question of who owns an item in transit has been done to death in the courts. Think of sunken treasure ships and who's going to eat that loss.

The short answer is that you can set the contract up any way you want, but as the seller paid for the postage and insurance, it's the seller's ring at this point.

Hence the OP cannot file and it's not really the OP's issue where the 21 days came from. The seller doesn't seem upfront to me, and PayPal can at least tell her whether or not they're okay with a 21 day wait. They may not be! They have to have pretty strict procedures for this sort of thing.

I believe there are watchlists you can put the ring on; talk to a local jeweler. I bet they'd be happy to help. Unfortunately the ring is not all that unique (well, not by the standards of a pawn shop with hundreds of rings I mean).

The OP should set up internet searches for graduated oval diamond ring and the like--even mom and pop pawn shops will list things online.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

My original e-ring was stolen. The local PD said that people will pawn the ring wayyy outside of the local area and there is a very slim chance that I would ever recover the ring. And they were right. And technically I do not think you can file a report as you never took ownership (it was never delivered to you), but I may be wrong.

Accountant here.

The question of who owns an item in transit has been done to death in the courts. Think of sunken treasure ships and who's going to eat that loss.

The short answer is that you can set the contract up any way you want, but as the seller paid for the postage and insurance, it's the seller's ring at this point.

Hence the OP cannot file and it's not really the OP's issue where the 21 days came from. The seller doesn't seem upfront to me, and PayPal can at least tell her whether or not they're okay with a 21 day wait. They may not be! They have to have pretty strict procedures for this sort of thing.

I believe there are watchlists you can put the ring on; talk to a local jeweler. I bet they'd be happy to help. Unfortunately the ring is not all that unique (well, not by the standards of a pawn shop with hundreds of rings I mean).

The OP should set up internet searches for graduated oval diamond ring and the like--even mom and pop pawn shops will list things online.

My response was for her most recent post about filing a report with the PD not with the post-office.

 

[sisxixon]

Another update in case anyone else experiences something similar later on:

I spoke to a representative at Consumer Affairs and at this point there's nothing more they can do. The only thing remaining is to have the seller file the insurance claim after the 15 days have passed (which will be this Wednesday).

I also spoke to eBay and PayPal and was told that i have up to 45 days from when the seller sent the item to file a claim, and PayPal is 6 months from date of payment to initiate a chargeback. I think it is reasonable to give the seller 30 days from when he sent the item to proactively refund me. After that time, I will initiate a claim on eBay to make sure that I have sufficient time to resolve this case and get my money back within eBay's window so that his seller track record doesn't get dinged.

I hope that's reasonable -- if there are any sellers out there who think there might be a more fair way to deal with this, please do let me know!

 

[ChristineRose]

If you've talked to PayPal and eBay and they're fine with it, I don't see any reason why you can't let the seller keep your money for a few weeks if that's what you want. It doesn't seem that he did anything wrong.

 

[Elepig]

I would still start a claim with Paypal, just to cover your bases. There will be a grace period of sorts for it to be worked out -- but watch the dates carefully. Document everything. It will probably be resolved before you would ever need to escalate.

Hopefully the seller will refund your money after filing his claim with the post office. Or he should.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Another update in case anyone else experiences something similar later on:

I spoke to a representative at Consumer Affairs and at this point there's nothing more they can do. The only thing remaining is to have the seller file the insurance claim after the 15 days have passed (which will be this Wednesday).

I also spoke to eBay and PayPal and was told that i have up to 45 days from when the seller sent the item to file a claim, and PayPal is 6 months from date of payment to initiate a chargeback. I think it is reasonable to give the seller 30 days from when he sent the item to proactively refund me. After that time, I will initiate a claim on eBay to make sure that I have sufficient time to resolve this case and get my money back within eBay's window so that his seller track record doesn't get dinged.

I hope that's reasonable -- if there are any sellers out there who think there might be a more fair way to deal with this, please do let me know!

I think you are being 100% reasonable! And I would just tell the seller that you know it isn't his/her fault and you will allow 30 days from the ship date for the refund and after 30 days you would file the claim. I would do the same if I had chosen a seller I like and prefer to stay on good terms. That's really just a couple more weeks. However, if you think you'd need the refund before then, I would still give him a week after this Wednesday.

 

[ame]

I'd do whatever you can to make sure that person NEVER delivers your mail again.

 

[sisxixon]

@ame, I hope I made it really clear to everyone who would listen at the Post Office that we did not trust her to deliver our mail anymore, but given that this post office can't even be bothered to pick up the phone when its own Consumer Affairs office calls, I doubt we'll be rid of her anytime soon... Time to look into getting a PO Box, I guess.

For anyone who was wondering, the posters upthread who were confused about the mail carrier's claim that the value of the insurance would be docked from her paycheck were right-- the woman at Consumer Affairs who is handling my case says that is not something USPS does, and she had never heard of it happening in her 10 years of working with them.

Update to come once I receive the refund.

 

[Sagefemme]

Most Ebay sellers are very motivated to keep their rating high. I hope your seller will do everything to handle the claim from his end and make this right. If he doesn't you need to be sure to give him a very low rating. Also if PayPal is involved, do start a claim with them as soon as possible.

 

[plpinkinsa]

I recently had a diamond ring setting lost/stolen with USPS. Although the 1800 customer service is awesome, my local office was crappy and wouldn't help me at all. They said there was a gps scan of the package at my door but wouldn't provide me any type of report or written statement saying that. The package was dhl express handed off to usps for delivery. I went back and forth with the seller for 2 months and they kept telling me to file the claim on DHL I was told by dhl I couldn't but once I did and had it in writing that I
Could not file I sent it to the seller and they would not give me any resolution. I filed a claim through PayPal and after the claim was filed the seller then wanted me to cancel it and try to work something out but I was done with trying to work anything out with them. I won the claim because there was no signature confirmation. The tracking showed left in mail box. Also the seller did not properly insure the package so even if I was to get the claim from dhl it would not have been for the full purchase price. I have only used FedEx for my purchases since then and haven't had any issues. I hope you get resolution soon as I know how stressful it is to have an expensive package missing

 

[whitewave]

Have you checked with the apartment complex business office?

I hope the seller insured it.

I also think the girl sounds sketchy and I'm sorry, but you can't have irresponsible people delivering the mail. This isn't the job for her. I also question whether this would come out of her paycheck or personal funds.

 

[sisxixon]

The seller refunded me the full amount before the 45 days was up. I'm glad it's all over, but can't help but be annoyed at how things played out.

-The seller dug his heels in and refused to file until 21 days, even though multiple people told me he could file at 15. I made it clear to him that I would initiate a claim through eBay after 30 days had elapsed, as we discussed upthread. He told me to "BE PATIENT," that it would get resolved before the 45 window. I'm a little miffed at the tone I thought he was using toward me, but it's the internet, so who knows.

-At 21 days the seller did not send me a notice that he filed. At 22 days I sent him a reminder, and he sent me proof that he filed.

-At 35 days he sent me a message telling me he had cancelled the eBay order and that a refund was issued, and asked for a positive review. I saw no refund, and the order wasn't cancelled. I waited 24 hours and pinged him again to check what's going on. He ignored me. I initiated the claim on eBay.

-Within seconds, he sends me (what felt like) a snappy message telling me to cancel the claim IMMEDIATELY, scolding me for being impatient and that the refund would go through within a couple days. I logged into Paypal and saw that the refund was pending. Fine. I cancelled the claim. I can't bring myself to leave a good review for him, though.

-The mail carrier still has her job. Several smaller ticket Amazon orders have gone missing or have been seriously delayed since. I'm now sending everything important to my office a couple towns away instead. Mail from addresses on the same street but a half dozen blocks away keep getting delivered to our apartment complex. I always walk the misdelivered mail over to my neighbors, but I've long given up hope that anyone will return the ring if they had indeed accidentally received it. Given that the local post office branch never answers their phone and how they have handled this whole saga, I don't have any faith in getting this resolved.

-I filed a police report and combed craigslist and the local pawn shops, but nothing's come up.

I know this is just a ring, but after this whole "ordeal," I'm grossed out by USPS, I'm grossed out by this eBay seller, and I'm grossed out by the thought that one of my neighbors might have taken something that clearly belonged to me. Ugh!!!!!! I'm so ready to just put this all behind me, and I'm glad I can finally do that.

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your resolution tips and sympathizing.

 

[kenny]

... This morning she knocked on my door clearly distraught and asking if I got packages on Sunday. I said I did, just one and not the one I'm looking for. She starts to get upset and said that this will be docked from her pay, and she's afraid of losing her job. She was really upset at me for reporting her.

She should be fired for knocking on your door and trying to make YOU feel guilty!

You didn't report HER!
You reported your package as not delivered.

What happens to any employee of the USPS is not your concern.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am so glad you got your money back! It must be awful to have a mail person you don't trust. They'll be getting other complaints about her if she is doing this badly. Hopefully she won't be there much longer!

 

[distracts]

-The mail carrier still has her job. Several smaller ticket Amazon orders have gone missing or have been seriously delayed since. I'm now sending everything important to my office a couple towns away instead. Mail from addresses on the same street but a half dozen blocks away keep getting delivered to our apartment complex. I always walk the misdelivered mail over to my neighbors, but I've long given up hope that anyone will return the ring if they had indeed accidentally received it. Given that the local post office branch never answers their phone and how they have handled this whole saga, I don't have any faith in getting this resolved.

Wow this mail carrier needs to get fired.