new treatment for emerald???

[mastercutgems]

Hello All;

I was browsing around on the favorite auction site and was looking for a semi mount; the company which is thought of very highly here had an emerald of 2+ carats in the mount and it looked very nice and vibrant. But the seller did not state any treatment, natural, etc. so of course I asked.
This is their return statement. The emerald is of Colombian origin; but it is neither 100 percent natural nor 100 percent synthetic; it is re-created rough from Colombian Emerald.

Wow what are they doing; would someone like Morecarats, etc. who are in the loop shed some light on this new treatment they are doing to emerald, I know of excel, oiling, dying, fracture filling, and of course the normal hydrothermal, etc. synthetics; but are they now reconstituting emerald like quartz and ruby???

Many thanks; I am glad the seller is honest in the return emails as I too have bought semi mounts from them and was happy for the price; but it would have been nice if they had listed that treatment in the original selling post on the site.

I know many years ago when I was selling only to the trade a lady wanted a natural pink sapphire; I sent one on memo to the jeweler; the lady went across the mall and saw one for 1/3th the price; and wanted to know why so much difference; I asked the lady to ask the other jeweler if the sapphire was natural. It was not it was synthetic. The jeweler did not advertise the sapphires were man made; how many people are duped by not asking if a gem is natural???

I just can not understand why not disclose everything you know; everyone can make a mistake but to me that seems a little deceptive???

Just my opinion; but I would like to know what other gem minerals are getting reconstituted; I guess if it has a 100 per carat value or greater it falls into that category to be cooked???

Most respectfully;

 

[chrono]

I can understand reconstituting opaque gems but not for cyrstalline ones. Have you asked the vendor what he meant by re-created rough, just in case his English isn''t all that great.

 

[iLander]

Hi Dana,

I can''t speak to the treatments, but I can tell my emerald story.

i went to a "jewelry designer" store (I use the quotes because his stuff looked like the dog''s dinner) and they wanted $10K for a Chatham emerald. It keep asking them "What do you mean Chatham?". The salespeople kept saying, "Chatham is the highest quality emerald available". This was before I knew anything about gems, but I have a skeptical nature, so I kept asking; "Is Chatham a place?" Eventually they said Chatham is a treatment and it is a synthetic emerald. i had to bulldog it to get the truth.

So, no, the stores don''t reveal everything they know. Should they? Yes!

BTW, they offered to make me a "deal" at $9K.

I think it would be very easy to grind up some emerald rough, throw it into some epoxy, and blame the "inclusions" on the nature of emeralds.

See, Dana, that''s why all us PSer''s buy from guys like you; we like honesty.

 

[morecarats]

Dana, I think what we''re seeing with these treated emeralds is similar to what we saw with rubies that were fracture-filled with lead glass. First there were low-grade rubies with surface-reaching fissures that were repaired with lead glass during the heating process. Then they started to produce rubies that were more glass than ruby, leading some gem labs to classify them as composites. The polymers used to fracture-fill some emeralds also make it possible to produce large emeralds that essentially consist of pieces of rough material that have been glued together. They also deserve the label of composites.

Since these heavily doctored stones are not very robust when heated or cleaned, it is essential that the treatment be disclosed, as well as the special care required. Any dealer selling one of these composites without disclosure is guilty of serious fraud. Offering the information only when pressed by a buyer is nearly as bad, since most buyers won''t ask.

 

[chrono]

It is very sad when a gemstone is more glass than the actual mineral.

Thanks to MoreCarats for the explanation.

 

[morecarats]

The gem market has truly become a minefield. We have to send samples of literally everything we buy to gemological labs for testing before we can offer it for sale. The problem tends to be ignorance rather than fraud on the part of many dealers. Sometimes it works in our favor -- some months ago we bought a very nice looking parcel of onyx that turned out to be black spinel. We''ve also found that some of the sapphires we bought as beryllium diffused tested as heat only.

Then there''s the problem of mixed lots -- every second lot of unheated sapphire we buy seems to have a few heated stones in it. Being an ethical dealer has become increasingly time consuming and expensive.

 

[mastercutgems]

Thank you very much Morecarats; and Others for your wisdom and input.

I agree it is a shame; but like you have said as with rubies, etc. I have tested so many gems that have new resins that are so much harder to detect than lead glass etc. it really has become a minefield and also a true statement so many sellers/vendors do not fully test anything and take the word of their supplier. I know I learned many, many years ago to invest in the best testing equipment you can afford and learn to use it the best you can. Even at that you can not totally stay on the cutting edge of all the new treatments they are doing.
I also have bought lots of gems to re-cut and it is a total pain in the rear to sit there at the spectrometer, microscope, RI, etc. for hours on end testing each and every one of them before you release the funds to make sure what you have is what they said it is; but you have to as too many people depend on me to sell them what I say I am selling them...

Even the rough this day and time is treated, doctored, diffused, fracture filled, irradiated, reconstituted, etc. it really has become a nightmare. I have seen so much in my 20 plus years of cutting and collecting; it used to be all they would try to fool you on was coke bottles run through a tumbler and sold off as aqua rough

now they are so much more professional at their art of deception.

Well at least there are still many of us that honestly care what we sell, cut, and collect. A big thank you for all those that try to be totally honest and respectful.

My buying days have been slashed by 2/3rds and I am really just working on the material I bought 15 plus years ago; except for a few things like rough from Tanzania and now I still find myself re-testing things I tested 15 years ago as my equipment has been upgraded and I surely do not want to take anything for granted.

Thank you again Morecarats for your input as you are well respected for your knowledge in gem minerals and treatments.

Most respectfully;

 

[LD]

Dana

There was an article (with photos) on the web of reconstituted Emeralds. I'll see if I can find it and post a link. Unfortunately, it is not a good process and the finished gem isn't very durable. I'll go and search now

Edit: This isn't the article I was thinking about but here's something on the subject: http://www.jckonline.com/article/289857-Reconstituted_Reconstructed_Recrystallized_Regrown_again_.php and this one http://www.colored-stone.com/stories/nov07/emeralds.cfm

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Yeah there have been some questionable marketing practices in different forms of ''reconstituted /etc'' emeralds. Basically just gluing pieces together to make a gem, very easy to see it, but sad that people are resulting to that. The newer epoxies used to fill the cracks are so strong that someone got the ''bright'' idea to take rough and glue it together to make a larger stone. It''s not durable and in my point of view, not honest either. The accepted form of emerald treatment is just filling up the surface cracks, anything other than that should clearly be avoided.

What to look for? A surface crack that goes completely through the stone, and typically the epoxies used in emeralds will glow under UV light. Luckily with emeralds (so far) treatments are very easy to detect with a loupe.

--Joshua

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Another new marketing trend in gems is the ''new'' synthetic diamond simulant. I had a customer bring one in to play with, it''s basically CZ that''s marketed to be more than CZ.... for $200 instead of $10.

--Joshua

 

[Edward Bristol]

Date: 6/26/2010 10:45:54 AM
Author: morecarats
The gem market has truly become a minefield.

Always has been! Just we realize now what has been going for on a long while.

There are not enough natural gems to go around for everybody. I have been searching for years for untreated emerald. I found two, ever.

 

[T L]

I''ve seen untreated emeralds online at trusted vendors. One should know that emerald treatment of the traditional kind, oiling, can be removed. It just makes the stone look better to have it in there. It will dry up after some years too.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Nope. To me, once the oil is in the stone it is not untreated anymore. I never considered the trick of waiting a few years though

 

[T L]

Well Ed,
The nice thing about traditional oil treatment and why so many purists, much like me, prefer it over epoxies, is that it''s very non-invasive and can be easily reversed. It''s not like dying the gem, or gluing bits an pieces of it together to make a new gem, which I think is appalling. You can also clean out epoxies in emerald, but I think some filler might still be trapped in there, even after most of it is removed. I think Josh can speak more about that. Epoxies have their positives too, but I prefer oil.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 6/28/2010 12:24:44 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Well Ed,

The nice thing about traditional oil treatment and why so many purists, much like me, prefer it over epoxies, is that it's very non-invasive and can be easily reversed. It's not like dying the gem, or gluing bits an pieces of it together to make a new gem, which I think is appalling. You can also clean out epoxies in emerald, but I think some filler might still be trapped in there, even after most of it is removed. I think Josh can speak more about that. Epoxies have their positives too, but I prefer oil.

Yeah oiling is easy to reverse and also epoxies are reversible. The treatment only fills surface cracks so it's easy to get it out when you want to. However, it will change the way the gem looks, which is why emeralds have been oiled for a very very long time as the are very prone to surface fissures. It's extremely rare to find an emerald that requires no treatment, extremely extremely rare.

Oiling has that romantic 'this is the way they used to do it' feel, but the new treatments are a lot better in many ways. The new treatments last a lot longer, are colorless over time, survive the ultrasonic cleaner, etc. However, oil can easily be redone, and it's the way it's been done forever. I'm indifferent as long as it's disclosed, long term, done traditionally, and ethically (i.e. no gluing bits on).

When I first read the article on filling stones to hold them together, it was a little unnerving:
http://www.jckonline.com/article/290298-Emerald_Crack_Up.php

It's really important to always deal with people you trust, and for high value stones, send them to the lab. The advantage of emeralds though, is the treatments give themselves away..... so with a loupe you've got a good fighting chance.

--Joshua

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Just to give you an idea what dyed emeralds look like:

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Another one.... most treatments on emeralds are pretty obvious.

 

[T L]

Josh,
When I see that hideous green blob next to the gorgeous emerald in your avatar, it''s like night and day! I take it that most highly treated emeralds are opaque or have very little translucency to them.

 

[mastercutgems]

Would it not be virtually impossible to remove the resins, polymers, opticon, etc. in emerald as many times it is infused under a vacuum condition??? I know usually the opticon, etc. is heated the crystal is warmed and then coated and put under a vacuum bell and the substance is sucked in the fractures.
I do know of a few emeralds that have had no treatment; I am sure there are some cutters on here other than myself that have cut, Zambian, Somalia, Brazilian, and even some Colombian emerald that you would have cut way below any oils, or resins. Even North Carolina emeralds I have cut and even dug myself I know were not treated.
But the reconstitution thing I was a little surprised with as emerald and the 3 phase inclusions etc. I thought would have been a little hard to reconstitute; or is it really just gluing pieces together???

I do not claim to know everything about emeralds for sure but just was a little offed on the not synthetic and not natural comment that was made by a vendor.

Most respectfully;

 

[RockHugger]

So sad....and reading about it, people arnt paying ebay prices for these...one guy paid 150k.

I would be ticked.

 

[Valentino]

regarding the original question,
those in the settings are synthetics.

Do not belive in composite emeralds, as did not see any. Have seen some that were "empegados" with treatment, therefore kept together by the polymer, but actually just one very fractured crystal.

all emeralds are treated. It is the quality of crystal that allows or not percentage of mean''s penetration.

Regards,
Valentino

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 6/28/2010 5:29:39 PM
Author: mastercutgems
Would it not be virtually impossible to remove the resins, polymers, opticon, etc. in emerald as many times it is infused under a vacuum condition??? I know usually the opticon, etc. is heated the crystal is warmed and then coated and put under a vacuum bell and the substance is sucked in the fractures.

I do know of a few emeralds that have had no treatment; I am sure there are some cutters on here other than myself that have cut, Zambian, Somalia, Brazilian, and even some Colombian emerald that you would have cut way below any oils, or resins. Even North Carolina emeralds I have cut and even dug myself I know were not treated.

But the reconstitution thing I was a little surprised with as emerald and the 3 phase inclusions etc. I thought would have been a little hard to reconstitute; or is it really just gluing pieces together???


I do not claim to know everything about emeralds for sure but just was a little offed on the not synthetic and not natural comment that was made by a vendor.


Most respectfully;

Since it has the inclusions I would guess it''s something held together by the epoxy. Although it could be synthetic on a large starter crystal. If you want, you can refer me to the vendor and I''ll send it to the lab as an experiment, it might be interesting to see what it comes back as.

I find it disappointing you couldn''t get a direct answer as to what it was.....

--Joshua

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 6/28/2010 4:44:01 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Josh,

When I see that hideous green blob next to the gorgeous emerald in your avatar, it''s like night and day! I take it that most highly treated emeralds are opaque or have very little translucency to them.

Lol, yep emeralds give themselves away most of the time...

--Joshua

 

[Sagebrush]

All,

Every once in a while you hear the claim that someone has reconstituted a gem. The claim is that it was melted then re-grown. If you were to heat a ruby, sapphire or emerald beyond a certain point what you would have is a puddle of Aluminum oxide or Beryllium oxide with the various impurities. The resulting material would be a glass that was formed from heating the crystal and it would not be a genuine stone but it would not be synthetic emerald either.

Some would call that reconstituted.