New to this all...

[InsaneMembrane]

I have been lurking here on this forum for a few months, Just reading, learning and absorbing everything possible on the purchase of a e-ring. I just want to inform everyone on how great this forum is, and how much it has helped me become more knowlegable about diamonds. I have read the GoG site and learned alot from there also. I still do have a few questions that I would like to ask you diamond pro''s here on the board lol. I read that Cut is the most important aspect to look at when purchasing a diamond, as well as the other C''s of course, but Cut is most important. I was looking online at the reputable few diamond sale sites that people mention on this forum. I went to a few local B&M jewelry shops in the area and the prices seem much cheaper at the local shops. I know the quality is most likely not as good, etc. But what I am asking is, is the difference in a lets say...Ideal cut diamond color G VS2 that much more noticeble then your standard mall jewelry store diamond E ring. Sorry if this doesnt make sense, but its kinda hard to get my thoughts across sometimes when typing.

I appreciate the time,

Thanks.
Insane....

 

[jaz464]

Welcome

!

When looking online and locally, you need to make sure that you are comparing apples to apples. You can't compare an AGS graded diamond to an EGL or IGI graded one, for instance.

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is the difference in a lets say...Ideal cut diamond color G VS2 that much more noticeble then your standard mall jewelry store diamond E ring. Sorry if this doesnt make sense, but its kinda hard to get my thoughts across sometimes when typing.

Assuming we are talking about the B&M's that I am used to, where they look at you like you like you just walked into Burger King and ordered a Big Mac when you ask about cut, then yes, there is a huge difference. Do not sacrifice cut no matter what. A great cut will make a diamond look bigger, whiter, hide inclusions, and just make it a real stunner in terms of brilliance, sparkle and scintillation. You don't have to purchase online but if you do, you will most likey have an easier time finding out about the diamond's cut. So many local places don't have Sarins or IS images and some of the other tools that we like to see here and are so spoiled with online.

 

[sunkist]

Yes, an ideal cut diamond will be noticably better than your typical diamond you find in a mall store! Really, the diamonds I''ve seen in mall stores are lacking the sparklies, fire, and simple amazingness of the H&A stone I have now. But as for the B&M stores you went into, perhaps you should ask them if they have the certificate or if they have the angles and proportions of the stone. Then you''d know how well cut of a stone you were looking at.

Welcome to PS, and happy learning!

 

[diamondlove]

hi InsaneMembrane,

Welcome to PS! I''m quite new myself but just wanted to comment that local B&M stores also carry ideal cut stones so if you want to get a better comparison you should get quotes for ideal cut stones that are certified by AGS or GIA (the other certs aren''t as strict = not as good). I think that would give you a better apples v. apples comparison to the prices you find online.

However, I do want to point out that even the Ideal cut diamonds are not quite the same as Hearts & Arrows so if you are looking at H&A diamonds online you should ask the B&M store whether they can pull up prices for some to give you a good comparison. I only found a few local stores who knew what I was talking about when I asked for H&A diamonds (aka SUPERIDEAL as some call them).

It might seem confusing at first and I might not be as clear as I could be right now but it just takes some research and you are off to a great start-- this site and GOG''s have great info. that will get you familiarized in no time.

hope that helps,
DL

p.s. CUT is the MOST important aspect -- it makes a world of difference in how the diamond sparkles, reflects light making it brilliant & firey, etc-- once you have a terrific cut diamond you can sacrifice a bit on color and clarity to get the size you want.

 

[InsaneMembrane]

Thank you for the information, and fast reply. But what exactly do you mean by "You can''t compare an AGS graded diamond to an EGL or IGI graded one, for instance."

Im not really sure what a AGS graded stone is, is that what most local mall shops use as there grading statistics? And what is EGL and IGI, sorry if this has been answered already.

I appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome

Jazmine is right - cut makes a HUGE difference! Assuming the two diamonds are equal in colour and clarity and graded by the same lab for the sake of comparison, the craftmanship of the cut and proportions of the diamond will make an incredible difference between the Ideal Cut G VS and the Good or Fair cut G VS for example. A diamond of much lower colour and clarity - even if not eyeclean can still be a knockout providing the cut is good.

From what I understand the mall jewellers don't concentrate so much on cut quality for their diamonds, but make cut your top priority when choosing as this will ensure you have a beauty which will sparkle and can enjoy for many years to come. You can read the tutorials under knowledge at the top of the page if you haven't already done so and this will help you get started. Also it is important to note that a diamond doesn't have to be a branded cut to be beautiful, if you learn about cut proportions a non branded diamond can be very beautiful, also you can see if the jeweller has any cut info such as Sarin reports, Idealscope images etc to help with this.

 

[sunkist]

Date: 6/10/2006 12:02:38 PM
Author: InsaneMembrane
Thank you for the information, and fast reply. But what exactly do you mean by ''You can''t compare an AGS graded diamond to an EGL or IGI graded one, for instance.''


Im not really sure what a AGS graded stone is, is that what most local mall shops use as there grading statistics? And what is EGL and IGI, sorry if this has been answered already.


I appreciate it.


Thanks.

AGS, EGL, GIA are all diamond grading laboratories. They have different standards in their grading. AGS and GIA are the most trustworthy, but anymore I don''t trust GIA grades, rather I go by the dimensions of the stone. So comparing the "grade" that a lab gives stones doesn''t help all the time. You should look at the measurements and get one with ideal measurements.

 

[jaz464]

AGS (American Gem Society) and GIA (Gemological Institute of America) are considered the most reliable labs for diamond grading. IGI and EGL much less so. They are almost always cheaper and quite often they exaggerate their gradings. So if IGI says a diamond is an F VS1, it may really be a G or an H SI1. If you know what you are looking for, deals can be found when looking at EGL diamonds (EGL USA only) but you need to be careful that you are not overpaying. It is much easier to stick with GIA and AGS.

P.S. Have you read the tutorials under Knowledge above?

 

[sunkist]

Date: 6/10/2006 12:01:56 PM
Author: diamondlove

p.s. CUT is the MOST important aspect -- it makes a world of difference in how the diamond sparkles, reflects light making it brilliant & firey, etc-- once you have a terrific cut diamond you can sacrifice a bit on color and clarity to get the size you want.

I wholeheartedly agree, Diamondlove!

[[[[[eta: Diamondlove! I saw your question to Matatora over on her thread and thought I could help. I talked to her about the same thing already

Yes, you have to sign the waver and yes get insurance on the loose stone! Threads recently have been talking about Jeweler's Mutual policy for loose stones that are about to be set.

Sorry to hijack!]]]]

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/10/2006 12:08:46 PM
Author: jazmine
AGS (American Gem Society) and GIA (Gemological Institute of America) are considered the most reliable labs for diamond grading. IGI and EGL much less so. They are almost always cheaper and quite often they exaggerate their gradings. So if IGI says a diamond is a F VS1, it may really be a G or an H SI1. If you know what you are looking for, deals can be found when looking at EGL diamonds (EGL USA only) but you need to be careful that you are not overpaying. It is much easier to stick with GIA and AGS.

Generally you will find too that EGL certed diamonds have a lower price tag than AGS and GIA for the reasons above, if you were to consider an EGL certed diamond then get an independant appraisal to make sure the diamond checks out - a prudent move with ANY diamond purchase anyway.

 

[InsaneMembrane]

OK thank you, now I understand. The bottom line is that everyone along with myself, obviously wants to purchase the NICEST, BIGGEST, BEST diamonds for there money. This is obvious I guess...I am looking to buy one from possibly WhiteFlash,GoG, or The other good online shops. Heres my question, I am looking for a carat round. And dont want to spend over $6000 for the stone. Can anyone point me in the direction of the possible best bang for my buck, So i then can analzye all the specs, and get better ideas of what #''s and stats to learn about.

I appreciate everyones help, And for sure will post pics once I get everything

Thanks again.

 

[sunkist]

GOG has a page on Ideal Cut Diamonds. There is a chart in there of ideal number ranges. Look at that and search for diamonds that fall in that range. Also plug numbers into the HCA scorer which is found above under tools & cut advisor. If you search here on PS under Cut, then that info is listed for you! $6000 is a healthy budget and I think you''ll get a beautiful stone!

 

[JulieN]

go to Pricescope your diamond at the top of the page.

to look up H&A stones, check the H&A box
to look up non H&A AGS 0, check that box
then hit "in-house"

 

[Lorelei]

A nice middle ground is an H SI1 or even an eyeclean SI2. An H will face up white, also in a round an I or even J can still look great, you might see a tinge of warmth at the side ( pavillion) but it will still face up well. These options will alllow you to purchase a great looking diamond as long as you concentrate on cut all the way! I will have a quick peek to find an example for you.

This diamond is a great cut - higher colour though but a really good example.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2416683.htm#

Look at the depth, table, crown and pavillion angles and the girdle thickness, polish and symmetry and the diameter measurements. This diamond is a good yardstick for a great cut.

 

[diamondlove]

(sorry to hijack)
Sunkist-- thanks! I''m not thrilled about signing that waiver but I guess we''ll just have to go with Jeweler''s Mutual to insure that loose stone so we are covered while it''s being set. Chubbs doesn''t seem to cover loose stones-- at least that''s what Bill Castro (chubbs agent recommended by Rocdoc on here) told me. Our insurance rider does not cover loose stones either.


DL

 

[sunkist]

Date: 6/10/2006 12:54:08 PM
Author: diamondlove
(sorry to hijack)

Sunkist-- thanks! I''m not thrilled about signing that waiver but I guess we''ll just have to go with Jeweler''s Mutual to insure that loose stone so we are covered while it''s being set. Chubbs doesn''t seem to cover loose stones-- at least that''s what Bill Castro (chubbs agent recommended by Rocdoc on here) told me. Our insurance rider does not cover loose stones either.
DL

Sounds like you''ll be getting yours before I get mine!

You lucky girl! Keep us updated and let me know how the process goes, that is if your BF lets you in on the process... And also how easy it is to get the insurance. We''re not to that step yet

But soon!

 

[InsaneMembrane]

Thanks everyone for all the great information! I really appreciate it, you guys are the best. I just got back from Fortunoffs, and talked to them there about rings. Does anyone have any opinions on the e-rings there? Over priced? Good Deals? or no clue?....I asked them the cut of one ring, and she said "all there stones are Well Cut" Is that the same as Ideal?

THanks again!

 

[Gypsy]

We have a Fortunoff's by us that I go to for engagement gifts as they have (by far) the nicest selection of champagne flutes around here (I miss the SF bay area!) and OF COURSE, I browse. Yeah, they are overpriced for the quality you are getting, and with the exception of one person that I talked to in the 20-30 times I've been there the sales people are no more knowledgable than any other department store (although they are more snooty). JMHO, though.

ETA: BTW 'well cut' is definitely NOT the same as ideal. If it were ideal they'd say ideal.

www.signedpieces.com Facets colllection beats them anyday, in my book for 'standard' diamond settings and bands... both in price and in quality.

 

[InsaneMembrane]

I asked her all about the diamonds at Fortunoffs, and shes like this is a well cut, E color, VS2 GIA graded. I was like is Well cut the same as ideal? And shes like Well cut is the best cut diamond,that is all we carry here, All well cut. How can GIA grade it "well cut" Is that even a known cut? I never heard of it. I am thinking Well cut is the same as Ideal. Anyone have any information on this? Thanks again!

 

[Gypsy]

No. "well cut" is not a GIA, AGS or any other lab designation.

 

[InsaneMembrane]

OK, I just wasnt sure, So thats good, I guess the stones at Whiteflash and GoG are better then those at Fortunoffs. I was just kinda confused when she said Well cut. I guess im going to purchase a stone from whiteflash or GoG. I am reading alot, and dont want to spend more then $6000 on a stone. From what I read it is best to get the BEST CUT you can afford and skimp maybe on the clarity? I am thinking an ideal cut, maybe even H&A color G and a SI2 or 1 clarity. Is that better then a excellent cut G Color and a VS2 clarity. As far as my girlfriend and people will know? I mean just to look at....

Thanks again everyone!

 

[JulieN]

I''d rather go down to H or I color than go down to I clarity.

 

[blueroses]

Date: 6/10/2006 11:00:38 PM
Author: JulieN
I''d rather go down to H or I color than go down to I clarity.

Julie, I *think* he meant go to SI2 or SI1 (when he said SI2 or 1) rather than down to an I1.

(And I agree....he could easily go to an H or I in color and still have a white sparkler!!)

 

[InsaneMembrane]

Yeah, Im sorry I mean is it better to skimp on clarity like a SI1 or SI2. And get the best cut. Or skimp on Color? From a G to an H?

Wont a H look more yellow and not as white? I would think some inclusions would be better then a lower color?

I dont know lol....


Thanks again.

 

[belle]

in a well cut* diamond graded by a reputable lab, an ''h'' color stone will face up very very white. if you are on a budget and want to get more size, lowering color and clarity is the best way to go about it. don''t pay for what you can''t see!

*i use the term ''well cut'' instead of ''ideal'' since the ''ideal'' label seems to get overused so much and has no real meaningful definition. by well cut, i mean most diamonds that fall under the current top grades for ags and gia.

 

[ladykemma]

hi insane - I have discovered that some of the mall shops are getting on the better cut bandwagon and will have to if they are to stay in business. That said, i recommend that you also do all your homework. memorize or put on a note card the ideal proportions of the shape of the stone you want.

I have discovered and bought, a zales "signature" round diamond. Tolkowski 58 facet cut. I highly recommend them.

It is a pendant in 18K gold. It came with an IGI card with the diamond measurements on it. it was also an impulse buy. It screamed at me from the case and flashed "look at me, look at me!". I looked briefly at the card, all the measurements were PS quality. but I bought with my eyes.

so don''t automatically refuse to consider chain/mall stores, just know what you are doing when you do so. you may be pleasantly surprised.

BTW the stones in my avatar are all from helzberg.

 

[firebirdgold]

Just wanted to chime it a little. Having been a sales person, it sounds like the lady saying ''well cut'' was someone who really didn''t know but wasn''t about to say that they didn''t know or that the diamonds weren''t ''well cut''.
Also don''t forget that jewelry stores have special lights that make even dogs sparkly.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 6/10/2006 10:09:20 PM
Author: InsaneMembrane
OK, I just wasnt sure, So thats good, I guess the stones at Whiteflash and GoG are better then those at Fortunoffs. I was just kinda confused when she said Well cut. I guess im going to purchase a stone from whiteflash or GoG. I am reading alot, and dont want to spend more then $6000 on a stone. From what I read it is best to get the BEST CUT you can afford and skimp maybe on the clarity? I am thinking an ideal cut, maybe even H&A color G and a SI2 or 1 clarity. Is that better then a excellent cut G Color and a VS2 clarity. As far as my girlfriend and people will know? I mean just to look at....

Thanks again everyone!

You might check this one out (did you ever mention shape?...it''s a round) from WF

well regarded vendor
G, SI 1, H&A
AGS0 approved for light performance
just under $6K (with requested Pricescope discount).

Regards,

 

[sunkist]

Date: 6/11/2006 1:24:27 PM
Author: IndieJones


Also don''t forget that jewelry stores have special lights that make even dogs sparkly.

Haha, Indie! So true

But now you''ve got me trying to imagine a sparkly dog...

 

[InsaneMembrane]

What do you guys think of this stone from WF?
Is this a good stone?

Item Code: 2039720
Price: $5,869.00
Report: GIA
Shape: Round Ideal Cut
Carat: 1.04
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Depth: 62
Table: 57
Girdle: M-STK
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Faint
Measurements: 6.42-6.49X4.06