New to the diamond game... help!!!

[vettewon]

It''s been five years in the making so I finally decided to pop the big question... that''s not my problem...

My problem is that I don''t know the first thing about diamonds. I was referred to a guy that some family of mine is friends with who owns a diamond cutting business. Now, we really didn''t look too hard for some stones but found a couple that were what I was looking for.

I''m looking for an emerald cut, at least a carat and would sacrifice some clarity/color for a larger stone.

He found two that were around what I could afford right now.

1) 1.01 SI2/F GIA - $3795
2) 1.21 SI2/I GIA - $4075

I''m almost positive they were SI2, but like I said, I''m not "into diamonds" so I wouldn''t bet my life that I remembered correctly.

My question is this. Being that they are GIA certified, does that make them cost more money? As well as that, the price that I listed on the stones, does that sound close to what they should be costing or is that a little high?

I did some searching on here and found some similar stones to what I looked at that were a few hundred less. I also found some much larger stones 1.36ct for the same price as the 1.21 above.

He had the diamonds sent to him yesterday so I can go look at them today so I was hoping for some feedback before 1PM .

I hope I gave enough information above about the stones as I don''t have anything else on them...

Thanks!

 

[chris-uk04]

You need to do some homework on diamonds. This may be one of the biggest purchases of your life. Diamonds go way beyond just the clarity and the color and the price. Go spend a hour reading this and you'll be a lot better of and a lot more knowledgable: Diamond Tutorial

See all the page links on the left side of the linked-page and read all of them. It'll be well spend.

 

[vettewon]

Let me ask another question then.

Lets say the stones above are SI2, F/I in color and the sizes I listed. Would the prices I was paying be fair? This is assuming that the jeweler is 110% honest, which I have to assume he is since he met his wife through my uncle on a hunting trip...

So, keeping that in mind... would the prices be fair?

 

[chris-uk04]

----------------
On 2/4/2004 9:57:27 AM vettewon wrote:

Let me ask another question then.

Lets say the stones above are SI2, F/I in color and the sizes I listed. Would the prices I was paying be fair? This is assuming that the jeweler is 110% honest, which I have to assume he is since he met his wife through my uncle on a hunting trip...

So, keeping that in mind... would the prices be fair?----------------

You are missing the last and most important "C" -cut. That will determine a lot about a diamond. The jeweller should be able to tell you what the dimensions of the diamond are. If not, he's just a salesman and may be unsuspectingly selling you only an "ok diamond" . Ask if he is a graduate gemologist. That is someone who is trained and certified in diamonds.

Here is a 1.06 F SI2 for $5100, but it has a perfect cut.
AGS 0 cut - F SI2

Now here is a 1.06 F SI2 for $4148, with only a "good cut" (which isn't that good).
Good cut - 1.06 F SI2

The cut can mean a lot. If the angles to which the diamond are cut poorly, it will look poor. Diamonds are poorly cut in order to save time in cutting them and in order to make them weigh more (The demand for the carat weight is strong). So try to get some dimensions and come back and post them.

 

[vettewon]

Yes, I know for a fact that he is certified... I was in his "office" which was actually his work space. You could plainly see all the tools he used to cut the stones.

He typically doesn't sell diamonds directly to anyone directly... just to people who are referred to him.

Just from the #'s you posted below, it would still seem that this appeared to be a nicely priced stone. I'll be sure to inquire about the cut when I go speak to him today.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[chris-uk04]

Read the tutuorial... at least the part on cut before you go so if he says the "crown" or "table" you know what he is talking about. Know what range the numbers should be in.

Just because he says "oh it's a wonderful cut" doesn't mean much. If you walk into a Zales-type store and talk to a sales lady, she might say (and I've heard this) "So these are the 4 C's. This is cut. Here's are diagrams of poor cuts and here is an ideal cut. All of our stones are ideally cut." You know what? They weren't even close to what an ideal cut is defined as!

 

[Hest88]

I'd also be very careful with an EC. Those flat planes hold color and show inclusions more than other shapes.

I'm interested to hear what the specs actually are.

 

[jackaroe]

You should also spend some time on GOG's site - http://www.goodoldgold.com

I've been searching for a couple months and before you take the plunge read a bit first. You should really ask for additional numbers on the diamond, like if there is a sarin report on it, has the person done any light performance tests on the diamonds and what are the results. Even if you don't understand what it means now, get as much info today and you can post it here and people can give you a better answer. And I mean try to get actual table, depth, crown, and etc. measurements so that the pros on this board can really give you some good advice

GIA is definitely the most well-known and better labs out there. But AGS offers better information, although not on as many diamonds. So i don't think the prices are unfair, and if you don't understand some diamond basics you won't be able to realize why you've seen something bigger for less and vice versa. Fancies in general, outside of branded cuts, should be less expensive.

Hope this helps

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 2/4/2004 12:02:17 PM Hest88 wrote:





I'd also be very careful with an EC. Those flat planes hold color and show inclusions more than other shapes.

----------------

Definitely--be very careful about "sacrificing clarity" with emerald cuts. Those big tables and step-cut pavilions will show inclusions that can't be seen in a round. I would be leery of anything below VS unless I had examined it very closely.

 

[roshita]

I definetly agree with Hest88 and LawGem. The Emerald cut is like a window and imperfections in the SI range if located in the center will most likely be visible to the naked eye. Like a window any soap film that happens to collect on the underside of the stone will be seen from the top. Not much of a problem if you clean it more often than other cuts.

 

[vettewon]

Just got back from the jewelers.

Here are the specs:

Gem1 - $4025

6.90 x 5.57 x 3.39
1.21 Carat

Proportions
Depth - 60.9%
Table - 70%
Girdle Thin to medium
Culet - None

Finish
Polish - Good
Symmetry - Good

Clarity Grade - SI1
Color Grade I
Fluoresence - None

Gem2: $3750

7.01 x 4.64 x 3.08
1.00 Carat

Proportions
Depth - 66.2%
Table - 82%
Girdle Thin to medium
Culet - None

Finish
Polish - Good
Symmetry - Good

Clarity Grade - SI1
Color Grade - F
Fluoresence - None

I got these specs directly off the GIA certs that accompanied them.

They are not treated as well.

I could see the inclusion on the 1.00 carat using my eye alone. I could only
see the inclusion on the 1.21 carat if I looked relatively hard.

As I said, this person is a VERY good friend of some of my family. My uncle gets ALL his jewelry for my aunt via this person... they trust him explicitly. So take into consideration only the specs and prices that I posted, please don't worry about whether or not he might be trying to pull a bait and switch .

So to sum it all up. Does this "sound" like a good deal???

Thanks again for all the input!!!

 

[Hest88]

Oh dear. Are these really our only two choices? I'm rather unhappy with the color in #1 and appalled at the massive table size in #2 (even if it were eye-clean). If I had to choose right now, I guess I would semi lean toward #1, but I wouldn't be happy about it on my hand.

 

[mike04456]

Sorry. I can hear both of these barking clearly. Is your budget that tight? I don't know that there's anything necessarily wrong with choosing size over quality, but at least be clear about what your priorities are.

 

[Demelza]

I just bought an emerald cut after much looking around. In my experience, a good emerald cut is much more difficult to find than a good round. In addition to the color and clarity issues which others have mentioned, you also need to consider the length to width ratio of these stones. To some extent, this is a matter of taste. Do you want a rectangular stone (what most people think of when they hear "emerald cut") or a shorter, less elongated stone? The 1.21 ct stone has a length to width ratio of 1.2:1. As I'm sure you noticed, this stone was probably closer to a square than a rectangle. The 1 ct stone has a l x w ratio of 1.5:1. This stone probably looked more like a traditional emerald cut. I would strongly recommend looking at more stones. The table size of the second stone is enormous. It will likely make the stone look too glassy. Like others have said, I wouldn't go below an H in color and VS in clarity (or a very clean SI stone where the inclusions are not under the table). And, unless you want an asscher cut, I would stick with stones with a lxw ratio between 1.4:1 and 1.6:1.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[pqcollectibles]

On 2/4/2004 at 2:26:43 PM vettewon wrote:


"As I said, this person is a VERY good friend of some of my family. My uncle gets ALL his jewelry for my aunt via this person... they trust him explicitly. So take into consideration only the specs and prices that I posted, please don't worry about whether or not he might be trying to pull a bait and switch."

Your above statement is not the issue everyone has been discussing with you. They have been trying to tell you the diamonds you are considering are not well CUT and the prices are NOT GREAT.

You can purchase from that jeweler, and go merrily along your way. But you will not have the best diamond available for the best price.

If you truly want to do better for your sweetie, you will spend some time learning about diamonds, looking at diamonds, and then make an educated buying decision.

 

[vettewon]

Sorry if that all came out the wrong way...

I don't particularly like Emerald cut diamonds, I like the traditional princess or round cut. He was very good at pointing out the flaws and how an EC looks smaller then an actual smaller sized round or princess cut stone...

I'm going back today to look at some princess cut stones... we'll see what he has and I'll post the specs on here.

Thanks for all the help.