new tax plan

[partgypsy]

http://billmoyers.com/story/republican-long-game/#

While we discuss Roy Moore and Al Franken, there is something of more import that has happened. Forgive me if there is a thread about this I have overlooked or this is too political. I hope people remember enough of history to realize that Republicans of even a generation ago, would not have supported a tax plan that is this extreme. And I would hope that other congress and senates would not have approved a tax plan who was formulated in weeks, in secret, and passed at night with no review or commentary before passing.

http://billmoyers.com/story/republican-long-game/#

 

[Dancing Fire]

While we discuss Roy Moore and Al Franken, there is something of more import that has happened. Forgive me if there is a thread about this I have overlooked or this is too political. I hope people remember enough of history to realize that Republicans of even a generation ago, would not have supported a tax plan that is this extreme. And I would hope that other congress and senates would not have approved a tax plan who was formulated in weeks, in secret, and passed at night with no review or commentary before passing.

They learn that from Pelosi.... Please give me a few "likes"...

 

[t-c]

“The hypocrisy is astounding”: this tax bill shows the GOP’s debt concerns were pure fraud
By Ezra Klein@ezraklein Dec 2, 2017, 1:55am EST

There is a long-running, almost metaphysical, argument about the GOP’s deficit hawkery. One school of thought holds that it has always been pure cynicism. Republicans passed the Bush tax cuts without offsets and paid for neither Medicare Part D nor the Iraq War. When they began decrying the deficit and debt during President Obama’s administration, under this theory, it was nothing but opportunistic political attacks, and it was obvious they would be abandoned as soon as Republicans regained power.

The response many Republicans gave was that the party had lost its way under George W. Bush, but it had recognized its mistakes and rediscovered its fiscally conservative soul. The Tea Party and its relentless campaign of primary challenges was proof the Republican Party had changed, and would stay changed.

The House and Senate passage of the GOP tax bills shows the cynics had it right.[...click for more]

 

[Calliecake]

Paul Ryan has said Republicans will make cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security in 2018. They just approved 1 trillion dollars in tax breaks to corporations and the top 1 percent. So hey let's now work on screwing over the poor and elderly. I don't know how these people sleep at night. I can't wait for the day the past year comes back to haunt them and they are voted out of office.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Paul Ryan has said Republicans will make cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security in 2018. They just approved 1 trillion dollars in tax breaks to corporations and the top 1 percent. So hey let's now work on screwing over the poor and elderly. I don't know how these people sleep at night. I can't wait for the day the past year comes back to haunt them and they are voted out of office.

Better yet...put the poor back to work so that they can contribute to the U.S.Treasury.

 

[ksinger]

"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge. "Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again. "And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?" "They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not." "The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge. "Both very busy, sir." ":Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it." "Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude," returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?" "Nothing!" Scrooge replied. "You wish to be anonymous?" "I wish to be left alone," said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there." "Many can't go there; and many would rather die." "If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

 

[partgypsy]

Better yet...put the poor back to work so that they can contribute to the U.S.Treasury.

Unemployment is considered low at this time.
Trump had a meeting with business leaders and asked after getting more money with the tax plan, whether they would use the money to grow business and hire more workers. They said they would not. Why does Trump keep lying to us? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ses-undercut-by-ceo-plans-to-reward-investors
If you look at what economists (ya know the people who do this stuff for a living) say, all but one said it would increase the debt and make our trade deficit worse
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-misread-the-question/?utm_term=.02411970b634
The tax plan as written will not increase the economy and may in fact produce unintended consequences such as by increasing inflation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/business/trump-tax-plan-economy.html

 

[Dancing Fire]

The tax plan as written will not increase the economy and may in fact produce unintended consequences such as by increasing inflation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/business/trump-tax-plan-economy.html

I'd agree that inflation will be here soon, but we need to get more americans back to work and off of welfare. A welfare check every month doesn't help to get people out of poverty.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

@Dancing Fire I'm sure you'll have a reply for this but here it is, EVERY PERSON I know on some type of welfare works at MINIMUM 1 full time or several part time jobs. It is NOT as simple as welfare recipients just getting jobs.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Dancing Fire I'm sure you'll have a reply for this but here it is, EVERY PERSON I know on some type of welfare works at MINIMUM 1 full time or several part time jobs. It is NOT as simple as welfare recipients just getting jobs.

Let's hope these workers will find a good full time job soo. I repeat a hundred times here before "a welfare check every month is not a path to prosperity".

More bad news for the Dems. As more and more Americans get back to work the less votes they'll receive.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/manufacturing-unemployment-record-low-193249392.html

 

[Calliecake]

I agree @Asscherhalo_lover

@Dancing Fire I know many people who have worked their whole lives who vote democratic. Some of your comments are awful. Life can change in a moment for any of us. I wish you understood that.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I agree @Asscherhalo_lover

@Dancing Fire I know many people who have worked their whole lives who vote democratic. Some of your comments are awful. Life can change in a moment for any of us. I wish you understood that.

CC
I understand very well. IMO, JFK who is one of the greatest Perz. in history is rolling over in his grave seeing what his party has become today.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I'm sorry @Dancing Fire if being a licensed paraprofessional in the NYC public school system with a Level 3 state issued license isn't "good" enough for you. In NY if you hold this position you still make so little that you typically qualify for a lot of aid, much needed aid. A professional shouldn't make so little that they qualify for public housing and WIC. It's an embarrassment to the system, not those who use it.

 

[Tekate]

We are in a boom economy and have been. We are almost at full employment. What we have is wage inflation, wages have been stagnant for years. Wages need to rise which will in turn create more demand for products and more products sold. We don't need this nonsense tax plan.

I'd agree that inflation will be here soon, but we need to get more americans back to work and off of welfare. A welfare check every month doesn't help to get people out of poverty.

 

[Calliecake]

@Dancing Fire Since you believe everything the Republicans have lied about regarding this tax plan, I'm sure you will also be on board with the Social Security and Medicare cuts Ryan is planning to make.

I'm sure the 1% love how you have been so supportive of them and looked out for their best interests by welcoming the Republicans tax plan. Cause you know, one can never have enough billions of dollars.

 

[Dancing Fire]

We are in a boom economy and have been. We are almost at full employment. What we have is wage inflation, wages have been stagnant for years. Wages need to rise which will in turn create more demand for products and more products sold. We don't need this nonsense tax plan.

Funny, when there was no wage inflation the Dems. complain and now with wages going up they still complain.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Dancing Fire

I'm sure the 1% love how you have been so supportive of them and looked out for their best interests by welcoming the Republicans tax plan. Cause you know, one can never have enough billions of dollars.

Yes the rich should pay more taxes, but I don't believe kept on robbing the 1% er is the answer. I believe more people contributing into the tax pool is the answer. You wanna see a socialist government at work?...look no further than Venezuela. what a mess...

 

[partgypsy]

Um, again Dancing Fire, the unemployment is pretty close to as low as you can get, in a capitalist society. There is no "0" unemployment in a system such as this. There are actually many jobs that cannot be filled because Americans do not have the right training. Oddly enough, Trump defunded programs that provided that training. As we said before both economists and Business leaders (yanno the heads of the companies who hire people) both said that this tax plan will not increasing hiring, so please stop repeating that chesnut. Also this new tax plan does not help independent business owners, it helps people and corporations avoid taxes (pass through loopholes). Also once the temporary tax cuts are phased out, going to cost everyone, average Americans who do work, more money. They will get less of their paycheck.

Welfare state as it once was, does not exist. Welfare exists to help moms, kids, elderly, disabled. There is not some huge number of people goldbricking sitting around getting welfare checks every month. I am fully for mothers, children, elderly, medically compromised people having healthcare, food, and safety nets and not being on the street.

 

[House Cat]

My husband works for a company that sells medicare advantage plans. Most of these plans are actually free to the seniors and disabled people and benefit them greatly. His company stock has dropped 25% since Ryan has announced that they are going to gut medicare. Today that stock is still dropping.

How will that help jobs and the seniors and the disabled exactly? Those are the three things that have always been “protected” in the minds of the Republicans on this forum.

Seniors and disabled people receive medicare. Advantage plans make medicare affordable. The reaches of this tax plan are going to go much further than a couple thousand dollars in your pocketbook each year DF.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Seniors and disabled people receive medicare. Advantage plans make medicare affordable. The reaches of this tax plan are going to go much further than a couple thousand dollars in your pocketbook each year DF.

I would have no problem paying more taxes to support the disabled, kids education and senior citizens, however I'd a problem with my tax dollars going to the lazy able body parents who does not want to work to support their kids. Why are you having kids that you can't afford to support?

 

[Snowdrop13]

DF, I’m not an American but welfare systems are universal. You never back up any statement you make with facts, why is that? Even a basic search on Google yields this picture, perfectly easy to understand, showing that the vast majority of US benefits go to the elderly, disabled and working poor. This is as it should be in a decent society.

The 18% that are in work and still needing benefits is where minds should be focussed- people ought be asking why wages are so low in some jobs that this is necessary (and this is not just in your country, mine has this problem too). It’s not always that easy to raise yourself out of poverty.

(COI- I’m a European with political beliefs that would be seen as extremely “leftie”; I expect.)

 

[ksinger]

DF, I’m not an American but welfare systems are universal. You never back up any statement you make with facts, why is that? Even a basic search on Google yields this picture, perfectly easy to understand, showing that the vast majority of US benefits go to the elderly, disabled and working poor. This is as it should be in a decent society.

The 18% that are in work and still needing benefits is where minds should be focussed- people ought be asking why wages are so low in some jobs that this is necessary (and this is not just in your country, mine has this problem too). It’s not always that easy to raise yourself out of poverty.

(COI- I’m a European with political beliefs that would be seen as extremely “leftie”; I expect.)

Well, yes, but everyone knows that Europeans mostly live miserable, constricted and non-free lives and are all on the public dole.



(No, they still don't have a truly agreed upon sarcasm font.)

 

[Snowdrop13]

Well, yes, but everyone knows that Europeans mostly live miserable, constricted and non-free lives and are all on the public dole.



(No, they still don't have a truly agreed upon sarcasm font.)

Oh, we do, we do

 

[Loves Vintage]

I will admit, I am still trying to keep my head in the sand as much as possible, so I may have missed something, but could anyone here please explain to me how the new tax plan will benefit low and middle income trump supporters?

This is a genuine question, though I suspect the answer is that it will not benefit them at all.

And, if that is the case, why do they still support him?

 

[partgypsy]

There are probably a couple reasons for this. One is party allegiance. 2nd Trump keeps saying the tax cuts will increase jobs, which is NOT true but maybe they believe that? 3rd is the sociological observation that lower and middle class Americans don't perceive themselves as poor or middle class. That they identify with Trump and feel that in Trump's America they can be like him. therefore a win for rich people is a win for them. I'm just guessing though.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The 18% that are in work and still needing benefits is where minds should be focussed- people ought be asking why wages are so low in some jobs that this is necessary (and this is not just in your country, mine has this problem too). It’s not always that easy to raise yourself out of poverty.

I don't have a problem with people who are are working and still need some benefits. however I'd have have a problem with those people who are able and don't wanna work and feel like they are entitled to free money.

 

[LLJsmom]

I will admit, I am still trying to keep my head in the sand as much as possible, so I may have missed something, but could anyone here please explain to me how the new tax plan will benefit low and middle income trump supporters?

This is a genuine question, though I suspect the answer is that it will not benefit them at all.

And, if that is the case, why do they still support him?

They don't want to know the truth, until it stares them in the face as the "AMOUNT DUE" on the tax return is a lot bigger than they expected. By then, it will be too late.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The Dems can say whatever they want, but Wall St disagree ...
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-futures-recover-tax-bill-123304128.html

 

[Dancing Fire]

Great news ...$1K bonuses for the little people.... This news will shut up the Dem. critics.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/att-...es-200000-employees-tax-reform-193620207.html

 

[t-c]

I don't have a problem with people who are are working and still need some benefits. however I'd have have a problem with those people who are able and don't wanna work and feel like they are entitled to free money.

You mean like Trump and his kids? They don’t do any work (except go bankrupt and lose other people’s money — did you read about how Trump took all the profits, saddled his public company and the shareholders with all their debt, then allowed the company to go under?), but the republicans are giving them a free ride with lower tax rate on pass-through income and no estate tax (that’s billions in free money (they’ve skated on taxes during their life so, no, they didn’t pay taxes on that money already, if you’re thinking of using that trope as your argument) — if Trump really is a billionaire, though I suspect he’s so leveraged he’s not worth 1/10 what he says).