New CADs for sapphire- advice please - still not right

[shkra11]

The setting for my oval sapphire ering is based on the schubach scroll setting (below), but w no surprise stone, a thinner gallery rail/bearing or no gallery rail/bearing if possible. The jeweler said it was no problem and would take 3wks, but it's been 2mos & we've been through 4 sets of CADs (the first ones were nothing like what I asked for and the most recent ones are below) and the designer still isn't doing what I want. I keep sending the pictures and explaining how to make the CADs look more like what I want, but they aren't implementing changes or are doing it tiny bit by bit. They also say that they can't tell me the width of the shank until the wax is made, but isn't that the point of using CADs? (I'm guessing that it's standardized so it'll fit the measurements of my stone and each gridsquare is 1mm or something?)

Is there some better technical language that I should use to describe the changes I want? (the prongs should be tapered so they're thinner closer to the bottom of the stone/basket and the scroll designs should end tapered flat on the sides of the prongs, and not on top of them).

I posted the old CADs about a month ago and got helpful feedback from chrono (thanks again).

 

[Vogue]

Get a new jeweler?

 

[shkra11]

Thanks. I was wondering if that was what we should do. It seems like it just shouldn't be this hard.

I'd have been fine going with someone else recommended here, but this jeweler is a rec from a family friend and my fiance (who's buying this as my engagement ring) had some romantic notion that we'd develop an ongoing, trusting relationship with this jeweler and he could buy me things from them over the years. I'm now guessing that the family friend (and her relatives who've been going to this jeweler for years) probably don't get custom work.
When I asked, the jeweler said right away that she could have this setting made for us with zero issue. I asked her for the price of the stone and setting separately, but she said that they were giving us such a good deal that it just didn't work that way and I dropped the issue bc, collectively, the price of the stone and setting were still within a reasonable range. She also said the stone was untreated and unheated, but, when I asked for certification, said that we'd need to pay extra to get it (um, so how does she know that it's unheated or untreated?). I let all this go bc, this one time, I didn't want to control this process since my fiance wanted to handle my ering and buy the stone and setting for me.

Now that my guy has seen how tough this jeweler is to deal with on custom design, maybe he'll be okay with just getting the stone (if that's an option- seems like it should be) and getting it set by another jeweler. And then only using this initial jeweler for non-custom stuff in the future.

 

[chrono]

Are you willing to pay the AGL brief of $50 to verify that it is untreated?
If it comes back as treated, what will you do? Or rather, will that matter to you?

 

[distracts]

Is there some reason you can't have Schubach's make the ring with the desired changes?

 

[shkra11]

Are you willing to pay the AGL brief of $50 to verify that it is untreated?
If it comes back as treated, what will you do? Or rather, will that matter to you?

The jeweler said that we'd need to pay $150 to get a certification. Since my fiance is footing the bill and "trusts" the jeweler, I didn't feel like I could add that extra cost on. I was telling him in advance that we needed the stone independently certified and to count that as part of the purchase price, but he didn't quite understand that so I let it go (just for this one ring). I told him what could happen to a stone over time w certain treatments and how wrong pricing could be. He was fine risking it. If it's treated, that matters to me, but I'm not sure I can really do anything about it this time. Besides have him know/understand that he may have overspent and may need to get me a replacement stone as any treatment deteriorates over time.

 

[shkra11]

In an update, the jeweler finally forwarded me an email from the designer. The designer changed the scroll detail on the east/west sides of the setting to be what I've been asking for and also told me the width of the shank (it's right, thank goodness). I responded to the jeweler asking for the north/south scroll detail to be changed as I asked and for the prongs to be tapered.

Is it a jeweler/designer etiquette no-no for me to ever reach out to the designer directly? (since I have the person's email now and have a hunch that the jeweler was the weak link in the communication chain.) also- we'll be getting wedding bands designed to kinda fit with the engagement ring, can I go to the designer directly for that?

Is there some reason you can't have Schubach's make the ring with the desired changes?

Just that my fiance wanted to go with this family friend's jeweler because he "trusted" them and got a good feeling from them. And then they wouldn't give us a price for the stone and setting separately- we wanted this stone, so maybe no choice but to have them set it.

 

[chrono]

The CAD looks better but that aside, I'm afraid it's time to be upfront with your fiance about the jeweller. This is not a shop I am willing to put up with.

1. Charge is too high for the independent lab report
2. Incompetent or extreme unwillingness to make the changes you requested
3. Not forthcoming with pricing and treatment. There is a significant price difference in treated vs untreated. That said, heat is stable and permanent.

 

[shkra11]

The CAD looks better but that aside, I'm afraid it's time to be upfront with your fiance about the jeweller. This is not a shop I am willing to put up with.

1. Charge is too high for the independent lab report
2. Incompetent or extreme unwillingness to make the changes you requested
3. Not forthcoming with pricing and treatment. There is a significant price difference in treated vs untreated. That said, heat is stable and permanent.

Yes, you're right. And their incompetence or foot-dragging is sucking up my time- not his. And I'm okay with heat as long as there are zero treatments. The jeweler explained why it's not likely to be heated (whether that's true or not) and said (although I know better than to take anyone's word) that it's definitely not treated and that they can send it off to find out about heat. He's hoping that the ring will be ready to pick up for a ceremony we're having in 2 wks. Should I tell him that he should really spend the extra money to get the report (so we can try to re-negotiate price if needed) even though that risks spending $150 extra on a stone that's untreated and priced nicely?

I really need to get him going on this site so he can get help finding my future stones (and learn to trust independent reports, not nice-seeming jeweler grandmas).

 

[whitewave]

I have read that most sapphires are to be assumed as heated. I think I read that on Diamonds by Lauren in their explanation why they use heated sapphires.

 

[Kbell]

I'm sorry this is happening to you. From what you've described in all honesty this is not who I would want to be
my jeweler for years to come anyway. I would want the independent report. Unfortunately there are some unethical people in the world who make this necessary. Your jeweler is probably not one of them but better safe than buyers remorse especially if it can't be returned which custom work rarely is. I hope you work it out & your fiancé understands. Trust is earned.

 

[distracts]

I'm sorry this is happening to you. From what you've described in all honesty this is not who I would want to be
my jeweler for years to come anyway. I would want the independent report. Unfortunately there are some unethical people in the world who make this necessary. Your jeweler is probably not one of them but better safe than buyers remorse especially if it can't be returned which custom work rarely is. I hope you work it out & your fiancé understands. Trust is earned.

And even if your jeweler is ethical and representing the stone to the best of his knowledge - there are multiple people in the supply chain who could have misrepresented it. We've had that happen on PS before where a vendor thought a stone was unheated and it turned out to be diffused and the vendor refunded. But that was found out because the stone was sent to be tested. And in the particular example I'm thinking of, it was a very well-respected vendor who was a colored stone expert, which most jewelers are not.

 

[Arcadian]

So I don't want to pile on but I want to be honest about what I'm seeing. Hopefully you take it in the spirit its given.

Please be realistic about this ring.

Your spending probably a lot of money for the stone. For both yours and his peace of mind, I would have the stone looked at.

A gem brief from AGL is 65 dollars. http://aglgemlab.com/pricelist/ Sending it via mail to new york, lets say maybe 10 dollars. Sure it could be higher but I'm going off base rates at the moment. the jeweler is CRAY CRAY asking for an additional 150 and frankly I think they're asking so much to "keep you in line". What I will say is that its up to you to decide if you pay that cost. but, I'll be real, my arse would walk.

On to the setting. If you know the company that makes that setting and can make it as you want, go with that company. Too many times people think if they just have it "copied" it will be ok. Its not. If there's a company that makes what you want and its not astronomically out of budget, its worth approaching them. They already know how to make what the jeweler is struggling with. I'd cut my losses and save myself the additional stress frankly.

Does that mean you might have to start over...sure. But you will forever be tweaking to get it "exact", which is additional frustration for you and them. You will have to be OK with their skill set if you continue working with them and learn to compromise.


Now, your timeline.
I don't think you're going to make it per what I'm reading. 2 weeks and you're still in the design phase. um... unless its the only ring they work on, they might squeak through at 2 weeks, but I'll be very honest. If I'm paying a lot for a ring, I would NOT want them to rush. Go a temp ring for the event if you have to, but don't rush on this one. At the rate you're pushing them to make the changes a rush doesn't look good.

FWIW, the last ring I had made took 6 weeks total.


We all have your best interest at heart, and we've all at some point been on the road you're going down. Its a hard one and tough to swallow when you have someone telling you what you might not want to hear.


Talk it out with your other half and see where you land. If you're the one thats dealing with them, ultimately its your decision to continue or not.

 

[royalstarrynight]

Speaking from personal experience and lost $$$ bucks on a deposit to go with a jeweler that was much cheaper, go with a jeweler that has made the custom design before. Otherwise you'll have to accept it will only be 80% right. I was pulling my hair out after 5-6 CADs that looked nothing like what I wanted.

Don't ever feel tied down to someone. They can always sell separately, if not move on.

The timeline aspect is tight but if this is meant to be lasting, does it make much of a difference? I know there may be many plans and such though...I would be open and honest with your SO.

 

[shkra11]

UPDATE: thanks so much for all comments & sorry I didn't respond sooner (was dealing w work deadlines and travel/family/events). Within 2wks of me posting and getting very firm with them, the jeweler got the CAD completely right, told me all measurements that I'd requested, and delivered the completed ring. It's just what I wanted. (My fiance still decided not to get the independent report, but agreed to replace the stone or go back to the jeweler to handle it if it turns out that the stone is heated or has problems down the line).

kbell: I agree that I want the independent report, but this is one purchase that I kinda have to let my fiance take the lead on. So no report for me, this one time only. And he understands that he might be overpaying for the stone (since we don't have a report) and that there's a chance it could get messed up down the road if there are treatments. Because a whole family (who's well off and known in the area) uses these jewelers and we were sent there by them, my fiance feels sure that the jeweler will take care of us if something goes wrong w the stone or we find out it's treated (because they wouldn't want to get a bad rep or risk the business of that family). As long as my guy is willing to risk it and get a replacement stone if needed in the future, I think I need to let it be.

distracts: yup, agreed and good point.

Arcadian & Royalstarrynight: no worries, I have no emotional connection to these types of purchases or jewelers. I have no problem with anything you're saying bc you're saying the same things that I've been trying to tell my fiance for the past few months. This one ring is my fiance's call. I gave him the info on how independent reports usually work, why we should get one, why it doesn't seem like they're a good jeweler for custom work, etc. and he still wants to stick with them. I didn't have a choice as to who made the setting bc my fiance wanted this jeweler to make it. I was fine walking away from this jeweler, but he wasn't, so there wasn't anything I could do. I was never trying to stick with this jeweler and I never (on my own) would purchase a stone like this without an independent report- I at first didn't even want to look at any that didn't already have reports. I was never asking them to stick to any timeline or rush. They kept saying when the ring would be done by and my fiance wanted to pick it up at those times when they said that it'd be ready. You're preaching to the choir here. Hopefully, I can recruit my guy to join at some point.

 

[Arcadian]

I hope you can get your guy on board too. Its half the battle right? Thankfully mine is not interested...lol I get the "get what you want, just don't let it be stupid expensive"...yeah whatever that means....lol