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New and looking for a little input

JohnnyHobs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
11
Hi Everyone!

I am new to the forum and am looking for some input regarding a diamond that I came across. I have done some research on diamonds and recommended proportions and the whole nine yards, but I was hoping to get some feedback on this particular diamond:

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Total price was around $21,000 - it showed nicely and had some fire to it, however I just don't know about pricing as this was the first place I went to. I went to a couple after that, but after you start doing that the rings all start to blend together. I know the color of I isn't the best, but what I was told is that GIA has the most strict guidelines and that I is still typically a good color. In store if I am remembering correctly it didn't have any type of yellow tint to it.

I look forward to my research on this foreign topic to me, as I was thrown into this now since I am in the process of finding the perfect diamond for my hopefully future fiance'.

Thanks to anyone that answers!
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
4,271
Post your budget and the experts on this forum can help you to find a good stone within your budget. You've come to the right place. They're great at that!
 

drk14

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,061
It scores only 4.4 on the HCA (62.6% depth, 56% table, 35.5° crown angle, 41.2° pavilion angle), so you can probably find better in terms of light performance. Comparable diamonds generally range $20k-$22k in price (with outliers as low as $18k or as high as $27k).
 

JohnnyHobs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
11
Thank you so much for your input!

Budget wise, I did want to stay right around that range of that diamond, so ~$20-25,000.

The main things I know is I definitely want a round cut...I am not 100% needing a diamond that's 2.50 carats, but something between 2 and 2.5% with high quality and an excellent cut. Was hoping that if someone had some basics to give me to follow that would be great.

As you can clearly tell, I'm very new to this and know only the basics. I will make sure to use that HCA link for any diamonds from here on out.

Thanks again!
 

JDDN

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,319
Here are some parameters that will help you vet stones. Take with a grain of salt though. There are plenty of diamonds that will be pleasing to you with numbers that fall just outside of these ranges. That is why an ASET or IS is helpful.

Table: 54-58% (Can go to 59% if you like the look of a larger table)
Depth: 59-62.5%
Crown angle: 34-35 degrees (can go to 36% with an ASET/IS)
Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 degrees (can maybe go to 41 degrees with a shallower crown angle)
 

JohnnyHobs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
11
Thanks for the reply on this and for the parameters to go by...Do you have some basic guidelines I should stick to when it comes to the Clarity, Color, and Cut as well?

When talking with people, I was being told that the Clarity isn't as big of a factor as cut and Color...it seems like they were saying anything to a VS1-VS2 is acceptable. Color it was mentioned that anything to "I" is ok by GIA standards as it would still be a diamond without a yellow tint.

As for the ASET or IS...are these things that I am required to pay for prior to buying the diamond, or how does that work?

Thanks again for the help!
 

heididdl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
2,291
proportion

table 54-58
depth 60 62.3
crown angle 34-35
pavillion 40.6-61
 

JDDN

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,319
JohnnyHobs|1465422965|4041856 said:
Thanks for the reply on this and for the parameters to go by...Do you have some basic guidelines I should stick to when it comes to the Clarity, Color, and Cut as well?

When talking with people, I was being told that the Clarity isn't as big of a factor as cut and Color...it seems like they were saying anything to a VS1-VS2 is acceptable. Color it was mentioned that anything to "I" is ok by GIA standards as it would still be a diamond without a yellow tint.

As for the ASET or IS...are these things that I am required to pay for prior to buying the diamond, or how does that work?

Thanks again for the help!

Cut will always trump clarity and color. The cut is what gives the diamond the sparkle. Gypsy has a great spiel about cut, color, clarity. If I find it, I'll copy and paste it here for you. You will be totally fine with VS1 or VS2 clarity, unless for cultural or other reasons your intended insists on a higher clarity. Color will depend on your intended's preferences. Is she color sensitive? If so, I would stick to H or G. I's can be fine and a great value, but there starts to be some variability so take that into account. Have you spoken to your GF much about her preferences? What about the setting?

Edited to say: An ASET or IS are tools to assess the diamond's light performance. Depending on who you're working with they may or may not provide those images to you. If you are looking at stones in person you can buy one for not a lot of money and use it yourself.

Do a search for ASET and IS (Idealscope) here and read up on their uses ::) .
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
LOL @ my spiel.

It's just easier to cut and paste after 10 years on here.

Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.

On color:


It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

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Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H if you DO NOT KNOW YOUR LADY'S COLOR PREFERENCES.

If you are talking fancy shapes without ideal light return (because there is no 'ideal' for EC's Radiant, etc) it's a bit different.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them side by side. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white, you only see the contrast because of the proximity. But it's very slight, you could set an F center with G sides and never tell the difference. And even H sides depending on the setting and the size of the sidestones... especially with round brilliants.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

On Clarity: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-clarity
Clarity Vs2 or Si1 and eyeclean is as high as you need to go in a round. So set that as a floor. And verify eyeclean with vendor or images and vendor (best). An Eyeclean SI1 will look just like an IF to the naked eye. So... really anything over VS2 and eyeclean is just because you want higher clarity for some personal or cultural reason (and that's fine of course, just make sure it's an educated decision) or because you are getting a good deal on a stone because higher clarity stones can be harder to move (especially in lower colors). So make sure you don't put a CEILING on your clarity. All you need is a floor. And with rounds, in general that floor is Si1 or Vs2.
 

Sagefemme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
291
When forum members give you angles and proportions to stick with, that IS cut. Angles and proportions equals cut, and what they are say is, THIS (cut) is the most important thing. Color and clarity are up to you, and can vary A LOT--but in a well cut stone will (usually) not compromise brightness, scintillation, etc, much.
 

JohnnyHobs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
11
Wow...that was great information there from everyone. Thank you so much...

My girlfriend didn't really have any preferences mentioned on color or anything like that...I just know that she likes the Pave setting...I will definitely look into the ASET tool and see how that works as well.

Do you guys recommend using James Allen? I feel like it would be extremely hard for me to purchase something of this price online without actually seeing the diamond in person.

Thanks again for everything, this is making this process less stressful!
 

drk14

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,061
JohnnyHobs|1465485663|4042210 said:
Do you guys recommend using James Allen? I feel like it would be extremely hard for me to purchase something of this price online without actually seeing the diamond in person.
I do personally recommend James Allen. They have a very large inventory, and their website provides great tools for assisting with the selection process (especially the 360 view). Most importantly, they have a risk-free return policy: unconditional return within 30 days, with free return shipping. Even though they don't have a showroom or office where you can view diamonds prior to purchase,the risk-free return policy allows you to inspect the diamond in person before committing to it.

When I was shopping for a diamond, I actually purchased two diamonds from JA, and had a side-by-side evaluation in the office of my appraiser (David Atlas), comparing the two JA diamonds to each other (and to a third contender, selected by GOG, which they had sent to us on memo). Based on my in-person observations (and David's professional opinions), I selected one of the three diamonds and returned the other two.

If you do something like this, and pay with a credit card, you can even time it so that you'll get credit for the return within the same billing cycle as the original purchase, so you don't even need a cash buffer to be able to compare multiple diamonds using this method.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I do like JA for stones. But for pave settings I would recommend WF or BGD and definitely not JA who has reviews listed with customers losing stones from their pave.

So if you want one stop shopping I would stick to one of those vendors. And all their in house stones will post the IS and the ASET up front so no guess work.
 

JohnnyHobs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
11
Thank you!

I will definitely take a look at those sites.

Are there any diamonds that you could possibly recommend around the budget I listed above and around 2.25-2.50 carats?

It seems like my budget may be a little low for a real quality diamond at that size.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
It is. I'm not going to lie. You are going to have to compromise somewhere. Let me see what I recommend. Would you be okay getting the setting and the stone at different places or is one stop shopping a requirement?

What color are you shooting for?
 

drk14

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,061
Gypsy|1465549318|4042567 said:
I do like JA for stones. But for pave settings I would recommend WF or BGD and definitely not JA who has reviews listed with customers losing stones from their pave.
Good point. I'll clarify that my recommendation is limited to those shopping for the diamond itself. I have no experience with JA's settings one way or another. The only other caveat to be aware of with JA is that their customer service representatives are not very good at selecting diamonds; thus, my recommendation is based on the presumption that the purchaser will have guidance from the PS forum when selecting a diamond, and not rely on the JA sales representatives for assistance with the all-important vetting process.
 

JohnnyHobs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
11
Hi everyone!

Thanks again for all the input...I have narrowed it down to 2 diamonds which are below...I was hoping to get some input on these:

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547 - Price on this, all in with setting included was 28,000

or

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547 - Price on this 1 with setting included was 20,100.

Any input would be great...will be going this weekend to purchase if there is some good feedback.

Thanks for any input!
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
JohnnyHobs|1469809840|4060595 said:
Hi everyone!

Thanks again for all the input...I have narrowed it down to 2 diamonds which are below...I was hoping to get some input on these:

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547 - Price on this, all in with setting included was 28,000

or

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547 - Price on this 1 with setting included was 20,100.

Any input would be great...will be going this weekend to purchase if there is some good feedback.

Thanks for any input!

Didn't you already have the links to these two diamonds on July 29 in a new post?
 
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