Nervous about 'inspired by' vs copying

[lovedogs]

Hi all,
I know this is a fraught topic that has gotten a bunch of attention over the years, but I wanted thoughts on a pretty specific design idea.

We all know yoram is a genius of epic proportions. I've wanted to create a version of a "diamond under a diamond" for a long time now. I plan to change the shank completely (won't be a pinky ring, won't have the diamonds on one side, etc).

My question to you all is: if i do a portrait diamond (hopefully a hex, octagon, or shield because i like the corners) with a bright diamond underneath it, does it feel disrespectful to Yoram? Is "diamond under a diamond" unique to him?

I am not usually this cautious when changing so much of a design, but my respect for yoram is immense.

 

[lovedogs]

Ps. The diamond underneath will hopefully be a neon yellow/green or green/yellow rather than pink/purple.

 

[Mjay]

I personally don’t feel that doing a diamond under a diamond would be disrespectful at all. Im positive that I’ve seen it done before. Wish I could remember where. If you copied the entire ring to a tee that would be a different story.

 

[lovedogs]

I personally don’t feel that doing a diamond under a diamond would be disrespectful at all. Im positive that I’ve seen it done before. Wish I could remember where. If you copied the entire ring to a tee that would be a different story.

Thanks! This is how I felt too, but wanted thoughts from others. I also can't remember where I've seen this before so I wasn't sure.

 

[seaurchin]

Just positioning one diamond under a window-like diamond in a ring setting seems to me too general to belong to anyone. I know what you mean about being a little leery with the inspo pieces though.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Following this with great interest because I want to have the CBI you sold me in a Yoram-inspired ring. I want that D shape but it won't be a pinky ring. I'd like a few stones on one side but not all down the side. Opinions welcomed.

 

[molecule]

Thanks! This is how I felt too, but wanted thoughts from others. I also can't remember where I've seen this before so I wasn't sure.

If I remember correctly, I believe Mark Morell did so with more traditional cuts on top rather than portrait style.

 

[MWM]

I did - sort of - with sapphires. Customer request. When I saw my photos, I was pretty sure customer would balk. They had this very result in mind. Not my inspiration. I just found the blazing red and built the ring.

 

[lovedogs]

I did - sort of - with sapphires. Customer request. When I saw my photos, I was pretty sure customer would balk. They had this very result in mind. Not my inspiration. I just found the blazing red and built the ring.

Gorgeous!!!

 

[lovedogs]

Now I remember the first place I saw "stone under diamond"

This piece: https://www.raintreevt.com/collections/rings/products/latreille-ring

And by the same company,this won a bunch of awards:

Kaleidoscope Solitaire Ring

Our award winning design is the third ring in the Kaleidoscope collection with a magnificent aquamarine at the center, poised in our handmade rose gold disc bezel, suspended on our hand carved platinum band and finished with a vibrant red ruby, precision set just below the culet. This design is...

www.raintreevt.com

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Ps. The diamond underneath will hopefully be a neon yellow/green or green/yellow rather than pink/purple.

i can see why you want to do this
its going to be spectacular

 

[Jopdrop]

I’m sure that I have seen someone on here set a diamond or sapphire under the open culet of an antique diamond.

 

[Rfisher]

This is a complex idea/feelings so I absolutely get where you are coming from with your question @lovedogs

The thought of mounting a gem under another isn’t new (not much is) and the posts above point that out.
However (as we’ve seen argued in the past) the twist Yoram puts on his and the execution of how it’s achieved might be more so.
These are thoughts without finding similar images thru a limited search of vintage/antique rings.
It’s instantly recognizable.
An idea to get away from that might be approaching it with your jeweler without showing them Yoram’s ring, and see what they come up with on design and execution with just a verbal description?

I think how PS accepts (which isn’t your question - but it kinda is related) your theoretical project might depend somewhat if someone here had one of these rings from Yoram.
Also… the imagined PS thread that might result if your theoretical ring design appeared out of the blue on DKJ’s Instagram.

I think one of the things to think about
(Hard to tell by reading on his website if he speaks of patent to his pinky ring style construction or it includes the gem under portrait gem concept as well.)
Would he take on your project as you envision it?
If he doesn’t accept customer driven custom designs - well……
Your project won’t be funneling business away from his boutique / livelihood
And that might make the answer clearer for you?

 

[missy]

@lovedogs i respect you immensely for being super considerate here. If this was my concern I’d ask Yoram. He’s a very nice person and as we all know an artistic genius. If I had any question about it being ok I’d ask him

 

[autumngems]

I did - sort of - with sapphires. Customer request. When I saw my photos, I was pretty sure customer would balk. They had this very result in mind. Not my inspiration. I just found the blazing red and built the ring.

Very unique

 

[autumngems]

I did - sort of - with sapphires. Customer request. When I saw my photos, I was pretty sure customer would balk. They had this very result in mind. Not my inspiration. I just found the blazing red and built the ring.

Can you see the red when it's on or is the skin impeding the color?

 

[yssie]

On this specific design component - I’ve not seen it done but I’ve also not looked for it, so I’m too uneducated to opine - but @lovedogs I admire and respect you for thinking about the topic and raising it for public discussion.

Can I ask if there’s something specific about the ring from Yoram that you really like outside of the stone-on-stone concept?

 

[lovedogs]

I just had another thought....seems like @yssie read my mind because she asked the question I'm answering below:

I don't have any preference/thought about *how* to set the stones, so it certainly doesn't need to look like yoram's. My only requirement is that I can clearly see the bright diamond Underneath the portrait diamond.

The idea for this ring originally came from wanting something to symbolize "small bright light coming from underneath something else". I've always loved symbolism of the phoenix/hope/rebirth, and this idea symbolizes that for me. I was originally (years ago) going to do it with a grey portrait stone, but then decided I wanted diamond so that the bright small one was maximally visible.

My overall point here is that no, there's nothing inherent about yorams design (although as always it's amazing) that I want to recreate beyond "bright diamond underneath larger portrait stone and fully visible"

So if whoever I use to set it has another idea for the specifics of how to set it (beyond what yoram did) I'm very open.

 

[yssie]

Honestly, reading your last post, I see no need for any concerns at all! Portrait diamonds exist to showcase something beneath - that’s not an unusual usage, that’s their entire raison d’etre - not unique!

I’m curious how you decide to set this! A simpler and more classic mount or something styled to symbolize light and rebirth…

 

[lovedogs]

Honestly, reading your last post, I see no need for any concerns at all! Portrait diamonds exist to showcase something beneath - that’s not an unusual usage, that’s their entire raison d’etre - not unique!

I’m curious how you decide to set this! A simpler and more classic mount or something styled to symbolize light and rebirth…

Thanks for your thoughts! I appreciate it! Yeah the setting will need to be figured out. I might contact MWM outside the forum to see if might take it on and if he has ideas. I'm open to either (simple or more complex).


Part of me wants it to show something about light/rebirth, but I don't have any idea how one would "show" that. I have one idea but want to keep it private until I see what mark thinks.

 

[Rockdiamond]

An interesting and oft-discussed subject...
A thought came to me..an analogy.
In the music business, there's a similar issue with sampling.
Some artists are totally against having another artist sample and develop something different from the original work- and others welcome it.
Personally, I'm in the second camp.
If someone wants to try to copy my bass line ...or my ring design....have at it!!

And I also commend @lovedogs for bringing up the subject!

 

[MWM]

Can you see the red when it's on or is the skin impeding the color?

Not like a "window". Certain lighting, angles and clean state will throw some red.

I did a lot of "secret" under-stones. Most clients did not want their under-stone to be visible through the top set stone. The sapphire folks did and they were a couple of steps ahead of me.

 

[molecule]

Thanks for your thoughts! I appreciate it! Yeah the setting will need to be figured out. I might contact MWM outside the forum to see if might take it on and if he has ideas. I'm open to either (simple or more complex).


Part of me wants it to show something about light/rebirth, but I don't have any idea how one would "show" that. I have one idea but want to keep it private until I see what mark thinks.

I think designing a plumage or red, orange, yellow feathers in a tail below the portrait cut would be amazing, especially if you got a cloudy (not perfectly transparent) portrait cut.

Hmm maybe look at inspiration related to peacocks and phoenixes?

 

[molecule]

Attaching a couple of pictures for inspiration related to the feathers or tail.
Obviously the colors would have to be changed to suit a phoenix.

 

[LilAlex]

Now I remember the first place I saw "stone under diamond"

This piece: https://www.raintreevt.com/collections/rings/products/latreille-ring

Same -- they have done many fascinating stone-under-stone designs. I think culet-to-culet, and most have not been diamonds, IIRC.

 

[headlight]

@lovedogs Your integrity is inspiring! Can't wait to see the next beautiful piece for your great collection.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Something amazing is in its nascent stages.
I was leaning toward a different Yoram inspo but now considering a German Kabirski ring design.

 

[lovedogs]

I just saw that mark might not be making jewelry anymore such a loss!

Anyone have ideas about who I should ask about taking on this project?

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

How much time do you have?

 

[lovedogs]

How much time do you have?

As much as I want. The idea has been kicking around for years so I don't want to rush