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negative "reaction" from possible appraiser...

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shminbabe

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trulyI got the name of an independent appraiser from Richard Sherwood of Sarasota. He didn''t know the appraiser personally but the appraiser is well-credential and is located in my city.

Today I wrote to him and outlined my need for help; that I am working with an online vendor(s) and a) that I will want my stone appraised and b) asked about his wilingness to be a "middleman" in case I want to see a few stones in person before making my decision. Whiteflash said they do this sometimes for customers but they don''t just send them off to whoever, they would want a "relationship" with the appraiser first. What I gathered was not that they would try to scam me by making me work with one of their own "independent" appraisers, rather, that they needed to have an understanding with the appraiser that he/she would be willing to hold the stones securely and that both Whiteflash and the appraiser would consent to doing this (and that Whiteflash would be willing to send such stones off to a third party) which of course I would pay for.

He replied rather derisively about my intention to purchase online. He indicated that there might be an element of "scam" going on if an online vendor would only send stones to an appraiser with whom they have a "relationship" and that I should insist on a 2-week return policy in writing, etc. That I basically was trying to have my cake and eat it too - - by wanting to save $$ in buying online but then wanting to seek the services of an independant appraiser to look at stones in person, and cautioned me that if I insisted on bypassing the brick and mortar store that I should ensure my appraisal is done by someone who is truly independant.

I think he misunderstood my query a bit. I would never accept an appraisal that would be conducted by someone that an online vendor insist I work with. He stated, "I''m all too familiar with this protocol," with regards to my question about an online vendor''s wanting a "relationship" with an appraiser before they''d just release some unpurchased diamonds to a potential customer. Which I can understand. I didn''t mean the vendor said, "you must only work with such-and-such appraiser...". As if I would go along with that.

So what am I missing here? I wrote back, to clarify and to ask him to explain a little more. That I''m new to this thing, but that I''m aware that there is a large market of people who have purchased diamonds online with great satisfaction. I definitely want to know if there are scams going on, though.

And, I most defintely want to have my stone independantly appraised. Don''t you all do that with your diamond purchases? How do find your independant appraisers for the stones you buy online? I can''t walk into the local brick and mortar and ask...nor would I want to. I want what HIS services are: a truly independant appraisal.

But he was so dismissive in the e-mail reply...why so negative do you think?

How many of you have actually purchased diamonds that you successfully returned? He urged me to accept NO LESS than a TWO WEEK return policy, get it in writing, not e-mail (of course) and then get a truly independant appraisal (that''s what I want but I''m not sure he''ll take me on as a customer if I''m buying online, actually). He indicated any savings I think I''m getting from an online buy will be absorbed in the cost of an appraisal, etc. (Gee, I didn''t think they cost that much.)

What gives? Was my query about his being involved as an independant receiving stones for me to look at from an online vendor totally inappropriate? I''m innocent, naive, really. Just trying to learn and make it all come together.

Haven''t many, many, many of you had happy buying experiences from online vendors? Why do you think he views it as just another scam? I''m interested in his reply to mine but I think he''ll completely dismiss me.

I felt like I could trust the online marketplace and have a greater measure of control, frankly, over stones I''ll be shown.

However, I would like to see a few Asschers or ECs together, so I can make my selection. How do you y''all do this? Has anyone ever previewed stones in a third party location and what might I expect to pay for that service?

Frustrated.
7.gif


Jeannie
 
Likely his only dealings with Internet stones were from EBAY so that''s where his attitude comes from.
 
I had WF send my diamond directly to Dave Atlas for appraisal. One of Dave''s associates, Chris, worked with me. I didn''t have anyone local and I had prior correspondence with Dave, when I had questions about "branded" superideal diamonds.
The process went very smoothlly. Chris did a thorough appraisal and and sent it and the diamond on to me. WF paid to send the diamond to Dave and then I paid to have it sent to me, after being appraised. It sounds as if your appraiser has a mistrust of online vendors, so it doesn''t seem like a very good fit, IMHO.
 
I''m with strmdr...and honestly, while I am not the type to shop online for a diamond because I have to see a lot of stones in person first before deciding, most of the people I''ve dealt with in real life, while having many years in the business, have no experience in dealing with the online vendor world. And in addition, there are many ''online vendors'' that might indeed be quite shady or misrepresent their goods. If you''re sticking to vendors that are PS approved, as it were, you should be fine. But I''m not sure...are you needing to see the stones all in person, is that why you''ve chosen a local appraiser? Because if not, why not send to Richard Sherwood or Dave Atlas. They seem well liked here by the buyer side of the fence and I''m sure both would give you very unbiased appraisals.
 
It sounds to me like he has a particular connection with a brick and mortar business, perhaps a father or relative or friend. I have successfully returned a 1600 dollar purchase to BN, but that is a far cry short of the money you are probably talking about. HOWEVER if you are not paying for the diamonds and you get to choose the appraiser to send it to I really don't see how there is any implication at all that WF is the one trying to rip you off.

Sounds like it won't be a very fulfilling relationship between the two parties though and you might want to try a different appraiser, even if it means driving a bit of distance and doing the whole hotel thing.

Also, as to the return policies, it is clearly listed on the site and should be emailed in an invoice, if you pay via credit cards then those credit card buisness should have extensive experience in dealing with internet fraud. You could also check Better Business Bureaus and the history of the stores you are curious about and choose one with a solid record and perhaps one with well known physical location. For example, Union Diamonds is one of the online Vendors, but if you want to go to Ga they have a location in Atl:

Flagship Store

Not that I would recommend switching, but there are alot of options out there, a lot of information, and a lot of legal support if someone did try to screw you over--plus going to an Independent appraiser first and not to you should cut out pretty much all of the risk to yourself right?
 
Sounds like you just need to find the right (different) appraiser...sorry you''re getting a bit of a run-around! I was lucky: DH purchased my ring from a B&M jeweler who had a list of indy appraisers and we used one of those and everything turned out well. Don''t have any advice to offer as far as internet purchases, but I''m sure others will chime in here and help you out. Good luck!
 
I did this exact same thing with GOG and a local appraiser. Except for some shipping delays by UPS it went very smooth. The appraiser was one recommended by GOG but this is not a big part of her business and GOG doesn''t pay her. I paid her. In fact two of the diamonds she looked at for me she felt were a little over priced but not significantly. She also said all three diamonds were very good and I did my homework. As for buying a diamond on-line, when I first started looking at diamonds, I never thought I''d buy something like this on-line (and I''ve bought many things on-line) but after going through the on-line purchase I probably would never buy B&M. The quality at most B&M is average, prices are high and choices low. Many sales people at the B&M''s knew less about diamonds than I did. And beware of the certs at B&Ms. In the end we bought a beautiful ideal cut stone after a sanity check by an appraiser and at a price that I feel was good. So I''m happy. Sounds like you should find a different appraiser.
 
Anybody know if JA has an appraiser they can send it to in SC for the free appraisal they provide. I feel silly asking them for a 2,400 dollar purchase, but if they could send it to an independent included, or is the included appraisal only the in-house appraisal?

sorry to jack your thread, but I didn't feel my question merited its on special thread and was similar to your own.
 
There are several sorts or relationships that come into play here. The first and most obvious is a simple matter of creditworthiness. If the dealer is going to send one or several stones to an appraiser for inspection they need to be confident that their property will be held securely. Not surprisingly, they want to enter into this with some care and sensible dealers are unwilling to ship out diamonds to strangers without payment simply because they describe themselves as appraisers.

In the other scenario you describe, the jeweler is the appraiser’s client. This is decidedly NOT an independent appraisal, even if that appraiser offers independent services under other circumstances. An appraisal report provided by a jeweler as part of the sales presentation is highly suspect for this purpose, even if it otherwise came from a credible source. YOU should be the client. The purpose of the ‘free’ appraisal provided by many of the dealers is to fill the minimum requirements of the insurance companies for documentation and are effectively a gussied up receipt. When people recommend independent appraisals on new purchases, this isn’t usually the primary objective.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 7/9/2007 1:17:48 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
Anybody know if JA has an appraiser they can send it to in SC for the free appraisal they provide. I feel silly asking them for a 2,400 dollar purchase, but if they could send it to an independent included, or is the included appraisal only the in-house appraisal?

sorry to jack your thread, but I didn''t feel my question merited its on special thread and was similar to your own.
Definitely ask JA, but I had thought they gave up the 10 day inspection period in order to a) extend the time for viewing and b) to get out of the appraiser moderating business.

But I could be completely wrong.
 
Date: 7/9/2007 12:32:20 AM
Author:shminbabe

...Today I wrote to him and outlined my need for help; that I am working with an online vendor(s) and a) that I will want my stone appraised and b) asked about his wilingness to be a ''middleman'' in case I want to see a few stones in person before making my decision. Whiteflash said they do this sometimes for customers but they don''t just send them off to whoever, they would want a ''relationship'' with the appraiser first. What I gathered was not that they would try to scam me by making me work with one of their own ''independent'' appraisers, rather, that they needed to have an understanding with the appraiser that he/she would be willing to hold the stones securely and that both Whiteflash and the appraiser would consent to doing this (and that Whiteflash would be willing to send such stones off to a third party) which of course I would pay for.

He replied rather derisively about my intention to purchase online. He indicated that there might be an element of ''scam'' going on if an online vendor would only send stones to an appraiser with whom they have a ''relationship'' and that I should insist on a 2-week return policy in writing, etc. That I basically was trying to have my cake and eat it too - - by wanting to save $$ in buying online but then wanting to seek the services of an independant appraiser to look at stones in person, and cautioned me that if I insisted on bypassing the brick and mortar store that I should ensure my appraisal is done by someone who is truly independant.

I think he misunderstood my query a bit. I would never accept an appraisal that would be conducted by someone that an online vendor insist I work with. He stated, ''I''m all too familiar with this protocol,'' with regards to my question about an online vendor''s wanting a ''relationship'' with an appraiser before they''d just release some unpurchased diamonds to a potential customer. Which I can understand. I didn''t mean the vendor said, ''you must only work with such-and-such appraiser...''. As if I would go along with that...
Jeannie,

Sorry to hear of the chilly reception. Your understanding is correct. If you think it will help, feel free to let anyone know we only check to be sure the appraiser is independent (does not sell diamonds or jewelry), holds certain credentials and can demonstrate security & appropriate insurance coverage before we will ship diamonds to them. We do this to protect everyone involved.

Every profession has its seedy side. Just as we must accept the apprehension caused by a few bad apples in our business, it might help to point out that anyone can hang up a shingle that says appraiser. We just need to be sure the ''vault'' isn''t the glove box of someone''s Jeep.
2.gif
 
Keep looking. It sounds like you had the bad luck to find an "old school" appraiser who still holds outdated prejudices about buying online. It doesn''t sound like you''re going to get far with him.
 
Date: 7/9/2007 12:52:14 AM
Author: risingsun
I had WF send my diamond directly to Dave Atlas for appraisal. One of Dave''s associates, Chris, worked with me. I didn''t have anyone local and I had prior correspondence with Dave, when I had questions about ''branded'' superideal diamonds.
The process went very smoothlly. Chris did a thorough appraisal and and sent it and the diamond on to me. WF paid to send the diamond to Dave and then I paid to have it sent to me, after being appraised. It sounds as if your appraiser has a mistrust of online vendors, so it doesn''t seem like a very good fit, IMHO.
ETA: It was clear that I was the client and the appraisal was for me and paid for by me.
 
Sorry the appraiser I referred turned out to not be "internet friendly", Jeannie. I now know not to refer him again for this type of situation.

I think Capt. nailed it on the head, that he''s probably an "old school" appraiser (possibly a former bricks & mortar jeweler?) that holds outdated prejudice against buying online.

I''ve got a client who is making the four hour drive from Jacksonville next week for this very reason. I''m always surprised when people go out of their way like that, but many relate the same frustration in finding an "internet friendly" appraiser.

If you can''t find a local independent appraiser that satisfies your needs, you might consider an out-of-towner that you would trust to be your "eyes". Several frequent or are listed in this forum.

Again, my apologies for your negative encounter.
 
I wouldn''t work with an appraiser that made me uncomfortable. Definitely look elsewhere.
 
You guys, thanks for the support and comments. Interesting that the appraiser hasn''t replied to my response yet. I was very calm and measured and just asked for clarification stating my naivete in this situation, which is true. He''s obviously biased against internet sales and while I''m sure there are some scammers out there (in every industry) I can''t discount the success that so many of you have had in your own online buying situations.

Rich, I appreciated your giving me his name anyway, rather than just trying to "talk me into" driving to Sarasota, you know? I think that speaks to your integrity. Having said that, I just might drive to Sarasota! I''m thinking of looking at a few stones together, maybe, and I may be coming to Tampa for a conference in a couple of weeks, so...if you are around and we time it right..

I say to this guy, it''s time to get in the game. The marketplace is changing.

John from Whiteflash: absolutely re: the security of your diamonds! Indeed, you need a safe and I completely support your company''s needing to be clear about what would be done on the appraiser''s end before releasing your diamonds. That''s what I was trying to state initially in my query to the appraiser, and what I tried to clarify in my follow up response. I''ll be curious to see if he writes me back. I actually doubt it. I''m kinda naive at times; I think he told me to go to h@#$.

thanks again, you guys.

jeannie
 
Date: 7/9/2007 1:17:48 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
Anybody know if JA has an appraiser they can send it to in SC for the free appraisal they provide. I feel silly asking them for a 2,400 dollar purchase, but if they could send it to an independent included, or is the included appraisal only the in-house appraisal?

sorry to jack your thread, but I didn''t feel my question merited its on special thread and was similar to your own.
I am sure the "appraisal" they provide is for insurance purposes, at least, that is what most of the vendors provide. An independent appraisal is optional. I did not find it necessary to get independent appraisals on GIA or AGS certified round brilliants because they are easy to price by looking on the price search on this site (and assuming one buys from a trustworthy vendor). But I think the original poster''s situation is a perfect one to involve an independent appraiser because she (or he) wants to see multiple fancy shape stones at one time.
 
Date: 7/9/2007 8:43:09 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Date: 7/9/2007 1:17:48 AM

Author: own.

I am sure the ''appraisal'' they provide is for insurance purposes, at least, that is what most of the vendors provide. An independent appraisal is optional. I did not find it necessary to get independent appraisals on GIA or AGS certified round brilliants because they are easy to price by looking on the price search on this site (and assuming one buys from a trustworthy vendor). But I think the original poster''s situation is a perfect one to involve an independent appraiser because she (or he) wants to see multiple fancy shape stones at one time.


Oh absolutely, If my diamond has been about 1500 dollars more I figure it would have been worth the % charge for shipping and would have done it myself, even with rounds.
 
Date: 7/9/2007 7:28:58 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 7/9/2007 5:16:33 PM
Author: shminbabe

I''m kinda naive at times; I think he told me to go to h@#$.
If that''s the case, I would want to know about it.
Hey Rich,

He didn''t use those exact words but the tone of his first e mail certainly conveyed the sentiment.

I told y''all that I''d written back to him last night, asking for clarification. I was quite sincere in wanting to understand his position, frankly. He answered a little while ago, declining to work with me in having a stone appraised. "...i don''t do appraisals while-you-wait and the current wait time is 2-3 weeks. even under those conditions i have all the work i can comfortably do at this time..."

I not surprised, given his initial response to my query. I was surprised by the negativity and by his refusal to work with me! But I guess it''s as y''all have suggested. And you''re right, I wouldn''t let him appraise any stone of mine now, anyway.

Not dissuaded, will find someone else. Like he''s the only game in town (okay, maybe he is, but still..
2.gif



Jeannie
 
Sounds to me like there is plenty of market for a new IA business to open up:)
 
There are some folks in this industry who are not willing to believe that internet diamond sales really exist.

Many have never heard of pricescope, so one can''t assume that all appraisers are in tune to the
highly educated pricescope consumer.

However, every consumer is entitled to courteous and professional service. Good manners always apply!

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 
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