Need your help/advice on $7,000 Engagement Ring!

[diamondbuyer7]

Here is (in general) what I am looking for:

Round Brilliant Cut
1.3 - 1.5 CT
G-H Color
SI1 (must be totally eye clean from top and sides)
Cut - Excellent or Ideal
Symmetry - Excellent
Polish - Excellent
Fluorescence - None to Medium Blue
Budget - around $7,000

I am a bit frustrated in my search. I have visited a number of B&M to determine what I want as well as a few online companies. Everyone seems to have a different opinion (probably closely tied to what they are trying to sell.)

I prefer quality over size. I want an AMAZING stone with lots of fire and brilliance.

I originally was looking at EGL USA stones. Many places told me to save the price premium over the GIA/AGS stones and get "more for your money" with an EGL USA certificate. Seemed to make sense. With EGL USA stones, i was going to be able to afford a 1.5 ct.

Then, most every online store said to stay away from all EGL certs and consider ONLY GIA and AGS. Also, the EGL stones they do sell don''t seem to be eligible for any buybacks/upgrades, etc. But, the common thread from these sellers was that EGL USA is off from one to two grades on color, clarity, and even cut. True? With cut being so very important to me, they also said that the best stones are only going to be sent to GIA and AGS, NOT EGL, because they will demand a higher price premium to the seller/cutter. Seems to make sense.

Ok. So with a GIA/AGS stone, it looks like I would have to go down in size to about a 1.3 ct instead of the 1.5. Not the end of the world, but wondering whether it is the better tradeoff/right choice. If I really want the best cut stone in my price range, is it a definite no brainer to stick with the GIA/AGS stones? Or, is it possible to save the money and still find a slightly larger, acceptable EGL USA stone?

Also, I am a bit confused with the definition of "eye clean." I want a COMPLETELY eye clean stone from top and sides. I have looked at many, many SI1 stones (EGL and GIA) that still have very visible inclusions (I have excellent eyesight and am very picky). It worries me to order online, even with the 10 day return policy, because the term "eye clean" seems so subjective. If I don''t like it, I pay for the shipping both ways, only to "try" another stone. But, outside of this concern, online surely has more stones to choose from - making it more likely I can find what I am looking for.

I have looked at many, many stones here on Pricescope. Most don''t have a cut grade - which is one of the most important criteria to me. Also, most don''t have access (without calling the company) to the cert. The more I look at, the more confusing it seems to get.

So, I guess here are my questions?

1) Still consider EGL USA stones or not?
2) Solutions to buying online and getting a totally eye clean SI1?
3) If you did consider buying online, what companies have the best reputation for price, service, and finding quality stones?
4) Do you have any links to specific stones you feel meet my criteria and budget?


I think I have done about as much homework as I can to this point. I am now somewhat educated, but frustrated and confused.

I would GREATLY appreciate any advice/help!!

Thanks in advance!!

 

[RxTechRN2b]

I am SO IMPRESSED by the smaller stones of exceptional quality -- I say drop down to the 1.3 carats for the better stone -- you won''t miss that extra little bit of size once it is set. Now get ready for the onslaught of people giving percentages of how much bigger the 1.5 carat would be, but unless you are comparing two stones side by size, and you really are not all about the SIZE, then I guarantee that the better quality slightly smaller stone will be more satisfying in your mind!

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to Pricescope!

I would suggest looking at AGS0 and GIA Excellent cut grade, and working with a vendor who has in house diamonds, and can advise you whether an SI clarity is eyeclean to your standards. Also some of the vendors do have an upgrade policy which can give you future options. Regarding your budget, would you consider dropping the size or the colour perhaps? This might open up more options for the money for you. You could consider an EGL USA diamond if such a diamond is recommended by a trusted vendor, but it may not be eligible for a trade in policy should you decide to upgrade later.

I would take a look at www.whiteflash.com and www.goodoldgold.com to begin with.

Here is a diamond which could be a good choice if verified eyeclean, it is a bit smaller than you want, but has an excellent cut and is within budget.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4679/

 

[JoeNewbie11]

Hi there,

Don''t want to frustrate you, but I think your specifications are outside of your budget.

Just as a reality check. Here''s a 1.30 Carat Ideal Cut H-SI1 from JamesAllen.com and the PS price for the stone alone is $7,640.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1118730.asp

Also, finding a completely eye-clean SI diamond from the top and the side may take some time. Typically vendors will say SI clarity diamonds are eye-clean when viewing from the top about 8 - 10 inches away in some cases. If you require from the sides as well and at closer distance, you may need to look for diamonds in the VS clarity range (although there are definitely eye-clean SI diamonds out there even from the side).

To maintain your budget, you may need to drop down in size or in color. Don''t comprimise on Cut though! Good luck.

 

[JoeNewbie11]

Here''s a stone in your budget and it may be eye-clean.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1167454.asp

I''ve worked with Jamesallen several times and they will provide an idealscope image and sarin report for you as well.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 7/12/2008 12:59:40 PM
Author:diamondbuyer7

1) Still consider EGL USA stones or not?
2) Solutions to buying online and getting a totally eye clean SI1?
3) If you did consider buying online, what companies have the best reputation for price, service, and finding quality stones?
4) Do you have any links to specific stones you feel meet my criteria and budget?

Diamondbuyer7, kudos to you for having done some great homework so far.

I can help with your first two questions.

1) Still consider EGL USA stones or not? Whether or not you should consider EGL stones depends on you....how efficient do you want to be? If you don't mind possibly kissing a lot of frogs before finding the proverbial prince (i.e. spending more time in the 'hunt'), then there's no harm in considering EGL stones. However, if expediency is more important to you and you'd rather get right to the wheat and bypass sifting through the chaff, then I'd stick to AGS/GIA. For me, I'd personally prefer to stick to AGS/GIA stones.

If you were ok with G-H color in an EGL stone, then you might be fine going down to I-J with an AGS or GIA stone. I'd consider this as a way to hit your budget. Before you do, find a jeweler or two that carries fine make stones and see those colors for yourself to help you determine how color tolerant you are. Seeing an I or J color from EGL isn't the same as seeing an I or J from the better labs.

2) Solutions to buying online and getting a totally eye clean SI1? Stick to a vendor that visually inspects the stones for you and be clear about what you want to see (or more accurately, what you don't want to see). Select a reputable vendor and let him be your eyes.

It's possible, too, if you drop to I/J color that you might be able to bump up to VS2 clarity and still remain in budget.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 7/12/2008 4:24:35 PM
Author: JoeNewbie11
Hi there,

Don't want to frustrate you, but I think your specifications are outside of your budget.

Just as a reality check. Here's a 1.30 Carat Ideal Cut H-SI1 from JamesAllen.com and the PS price for the stone alone is $7,640.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1118730.asp

Also, finding a completely eye-clean SI diamond from the top and the side may take some time. Typically vendors will say SI clarity diamonds are eye-clean when viewing from the top about 8 - 10 inches away in some cases. If you require from the sides as well and at closer distance, you may need to look for diamonds in the VS clarity range (although there are definitely eye-clean SI diamonds out there even from the side).

To maintain your budget, you may need to drop down in size or in color. Don't comprimise on Cut though! Good luck.

Joe, I believe what you are describing to be for SI2 clarity, which is really quite different from SI1. You cannot lump the two together.
With a GIA or AGS certed SI1, the stone will most likely be eyeclean and a good one you will have trouble finding any inclusions even with a loupe. My AGS SI1 stone I could only find the inclusion after looking through microscope. I cannot find it with a loupe.

Mainly when looking at SI1 clarity from the PS vendors a customer will be safe, but of course its best to enquire still on a stone by stone basis.
It is also possible to find completely clean si2 stones, but these take a little more looking and patience.



Diamondbuyer 7, I agree with Joe that your expectations may be a bit high for your budget. sorry

I second Allison's suggestion of moving to I/J colour - my personal "sweet spot" is I/Si1 for the best combo of quality and value for money.
As Allison mentioned, a GIA/AGS I or J colour will be a different ballpark to an EGL one.
I have just bought an AGS K, and my independent appraiser thought it was I at first

It is also completely clean SI1, here is a link if you're interested
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-wonderful-e-ring-upgrade-thankyou.89827/

If you speak to a PS recommended vendor such as GOG or WF, they are well known for being very honest when it comes to clarity. If you feel you're not on the same page with regards to "eye-cleanliness", just define to your rep what Your definition is, and what you're after. Communication is key.

What style of setting are you thinking of? Is it absolutely necessary to have it completely clean from the sides aswell? As many settings will cover the sides anyways..

 

[diamondbuyer7]

Thank you for all the quick responses!! Greatly appreciated!

Quality is definitely more important to me than size. To confirm, AGS best cust is "Ideal" and GIA best cut is "Excellent", correct?

Maybe eye clean from the sides can be hidden by the setting. I have not decided on the setting yet. Which ones could you recommend that would hide visible inclusions from the side? She wants white gold, no additional stones, something very simple and classic that shows the stone off well. Very active, so possibly a lower setting for the stone. Any suggestions?

To stay in the 1.3ct to 1.4ct range, maybe I do need to drop my color to an I. Is it true that the better cut (Ideal or Excellent) will make a lower color look "whiter"?

On the EGL vs GIA/AGS question, it seems looking for the needle in the haystack with an EGL would take considerable time. I don''t have a deadline of any sort, but would like to propose sooner than later. If I go with an online vendor, they don''t actually have most of the stones in house. Correct? So, if they are ordering in numerous EGL stones to find the right one, would that not cost me? Or do the incur those shipping costs back and forth?

Thank you again for all the help!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/13/2008 12:49:10 PM
Author: diamondbuyer7
Thank you for all the quick responses!! Greatly appreciated!

Quality is definitely more important to me than size. To confirm, AGS best cust is ''Ideal'' and GIA best cut is ''Excellent'', correct?

Maybe eye clean from the sides can be hidden by the setting. I have not decided on the setting yet. Which ones could you recommend that would hide visible inclusions from the side? She wants white gold, no additional stones, something very simple and classic that shows the stone off well. Very active, so possibly a lower setting for the stone. Any suggestions? Maybe the classic 6 prong Tiffany style setting, with the stone dropped as low as possible could be a good option. Or a basket setting with either 4 or double prongs might hide the sides more.

To stay in the 1.3ct to 1.4ct range, maybe I do need to drop my color to an I. Is it true that the better cut (Ideal or Excellent) will make a lower color look ''whiter''? Yes, an excellent cut can help a diamond to face up whiter, a great cut will showcase any colour grade to it''s best advantage.

On the EGL vs GIA/AGS question, it seems looking for the needle in the haystack with an EGL would take considerable time. I don''t have a deadline of any sort, but would like to propose sooner than later. If I go with an online vendor, they don''t actually have most of the stones in house. Correct? So, if they are ordering in numerous EGL stones to find the right one, would that not cost me? Or do the incur those shipping costs back and forth?
With EGL USA diamonds, often these are not in house, so a vendor would need to request more info on them, then call them in if promising. Shipping charges can vary when calling a stone in, so you would need to ask the vendor what fees would apply in your case. As Allison says, it may take some time to source a diamond in this way, but if you are not in a rush and have an expert vendor be your eyes, you could certainly use this approach.

Thank you again for all the help!!

 

[FacetFire]

To stay in your budget and get the size and eyeclean, you might even have to drop to a J color. I personally love I and J color stones and the incredible value the represent. My stone is one actually. Here are some options I found, though none is exactly what you want:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4604/ 1.29ct I, SI1, $7650 bank wire price...great option if you have any room to increase your budget

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2713/ 1.29 J, SI1, $6292 bank wire price...probably my favorite option...look at that brilliancescpe report...what a sparkler!

*both of the above stones have medium blue fluor, which will also help them look whiter

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-680224.htm# 1.25 H, SI1, $6704...good choice if you are worried about color over size

 

[kcoursolle]

I personally would pick a 1.2-1.3 AGS 0 or GIA excellent over an EGL stone. You can go lower in color with well-cut stones and many EGL stones are actually 1-2 grades in color or clarity lower than AGS or GIA anyway, and you want to make sure you are getting what you pay for.

Your budget is a tad out of range for what you would like, but as others have pointed out you can get a lovely 1.3 carat stone for your budget in the I/SI range. 1.3 carats is still pretty big and the sparkle factor of a well-cut stone will make up for the slightly smaller size.