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Need your expertise on this diamond with Naturals please!

H

Happygirl2017

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
8
Hi folks! I'm new to the site and hoping everyone here can help determine whether this is a great diamond or not. There's a couple "natural" on the GIA report. Are naturals bad?

How do they impact the diamond? (In terms of beauty, durability, etc)
How should they impact price?

I initially overlooked it since it was IF, but now am thinking it's a big deal. Hope everyone can help ! :)
Thanks so much for any insights!

Other details are:
Color G
Excellent Cut, symmetry, polish
Clarity: IF
Over 2 carats
GIA certified

View media item 122175
View media item 122174
 
Last edited:
I can't open your pictures. I'd be more worried about whether the proportions are hindering performance than anything in an IF stone.
 
IMG_6697.PNG IMG_6698.PNG
ringo865 said:
I can't open your pictures. I'd be more worried about whether the proportions are hindering performance than anything in an IF stone.
Click to expand...

Hi Ringo, thanks for your response!
Hmm... let me try re-uploading the pictures.
 
As I expected, that stones cut will likely be more of a problem than the natural.

I am pasting an old post from Gypsy:

"Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.3. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you."

Stick to these proportions:

Table: 54-58
Crown: 34-35 (35.5 is OK with pavilion of 40.6) (yours is 32)
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9 (41 is ok with crown of 34)
Depth: 59.5 to 62.3

Pricescopers will strongly recommend you do some more background reading before committing to buying a diamond (over 2 cts).

The community here are fantastic, experienced and will help you look for a beautifully cut diamond that would get the best bang for your buck. There are several jewellers with in-house stones here as well, depending on your location.

If you must buy from local jewellers, try your best to stick to the above parameters and you will be much more pleased with the results, once you leave the deceiving halogen lights that saturates any poorly cut diamond with sparkle.
 
It's trying to be a 60/60 due to table and depth percentages. The cutter has followed the type of rule where if you cut steep pavilion side, you cut shallower on the crown side which is what they have done here. The natural is pavilion side around the girdle so the cutter decided to leave part of the diamond crystal's natural face when it was a piece of rough on the polished diamond. If they had to polish it away, it may have compromised the cut more and/or there would have been a further loss of carat weight on the finished stone.

Surprisingly for this stone, it is returning at 1.1 on the HCA with it being a Brilliant Ideal Cut candidate. Any photos of this stone?
 
bmfang said:
It's trying to be a 60/60 due to table and depth percentages. The cutter has followed the type of rule where if you cut steep pavilion side, you cut shallower on the crown side which is what they have done here. The natural is pavilion side around the girdle so the cutter decided to leave part of the diamond crystal's natural face when it was a piece of rough on the polished diamond. If they had to polish it away, it may have compromised the cut more and/or there would have been a further loss of carat weight on the finished stone.

Surprisingly for this stone, it is returning at 1.1 on the HCA with it being a Brilliant Ideal Cut candidate. Any photos of this stone?
Click to expand...

Hi BMfang,

Thanks for your advice!

So from the appearance of the two natural lines, both "naturals" are on the pavilion side, and not on the girdle itself? (Sorry to ask, i haven't come across many where I've seen this).

I was only able to get a video.
https://www.screencast.com/t/enuvk6iIIe

In general, how do "naturals" impact aesthetics and/or performance?

How much should these impact price?

Thank you for your advice! :)
 
ringo865 said:
As I expected, that stones cut will likely be more of a problem than the natural.

I am pasting an old post from Gypsy:

"Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.3. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you."

Stick to these proportions:

Table: 54-58
Crown: 34-35 (35.5 is OK with pavilion of 40.6) (yours is 32)
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9 (41 is ok with crown of 34)
Depth: 59.5 to 62.3

Pricescopers will strongly recommend you do some more background reading before committing to buying a diamond (over 2 cts).

The community here are fantastic, experienced and will help you look for a beautifully cut diamond that would get the best bang for your buck. There are several jewellers with in-house stones here as well, depending on your location.

If you must buy from local jewellers, try your best to stick to the above parameters and you will be much more pleased with the results, once you leave the deceiving halogen lights that saturates any poorly cut diamond with sparkle.
Click to expand...
Yes we checked out the HCA score, and it did score under 2. We had asked for an Idealscope or ASET image, but didn't get a response- maybe need to ask again!

Where's the best place to purchase an idealscope?

Thanks again for the advice!
 
What is the return policy?
 
whitewave said:
What is the return policy?
Click to expand...
There's a return policy within 30 days... it's from a different country, which is why I'm a little concerned to just purchase it.
 
I would also ask yourself whether you consider a natural a flaw, and if the thought of it not being "perfect" on the outside mars its IF clarity in your mind.
 
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