need to rant about my older daughter''s spending habit...

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2009 12:21:18 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 2:15:03 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 2:00:39 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 1:50:32 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:52:40 AM
Author: TravelingGal
DF, not to sound harsh, honestly but...

It is people like you and your wife who create the type of people who walk away from home loans or buy lobsters with food stamps. Why? Because you are teaching your daughter how to WORK THE SYSTEM. And in this case, the ''system'' being worked is you.

i would never allow my kids to do the 0 down B.S. loans

That''s the problem DF, your kids don''t care what you allow or not. They''re spending as they see fit. Plus how are they going to save for a downpayment? Or are you going to pony up that money too? I lifetime of DF handouts?

Sign me up! I''m Korean...I''ll pass as your Chinese daughter!!

well, in that case they aren''t gonna buy a house,are they?

Why not? You''re already teaching them they don''t need money to buy things...

believe me, when the time comes i''ll be sure she can afford the mortgage before she signs the papers.

 

[Mara]

Date: 7/22/2009 12:44:30 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:21:18 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 2:15:03 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 2:00:39 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 1:50:32 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:52:40 AM
Author: TravelingGal
DF, not to sound harsh, honestly but...

It is people like you and your wife who create the type of people who walk away from home loans or buy lobsters with food stamps. Why? Because you are teaching your daughter how to WORK THE SYSTEM. And in this case, the 'system' being worked is you.

i would never allow my kids to do the 0 down B.S. loans

That's the problem DF, your kids don't care what you allow or not. They're spending as they see fit. Plus how are they going to save for a downpayment? Or are you going to pony up that money too? I lifetime of DF handouts?

Sign me up! I'm Korean...I'll pass as your Chinese daughter!!

well, in that case they aren't gonna buy a house,are they?

Why not? You're already teaching them they don't need money to buy things...

believe me, when the time comes i'll be sure she can afford the mortgage before she signs the papers.

she's an adult...what if she doesn't ask you? she doesn't have to tell you anything she doesn't want to. she could finish school, get a job and a mortgage she can't afford quite easily, people do it all the time. just like they load up on CC's they can't pay off and don't understand how to use. do you really think it won't happen to her...why? it's already happening in a smaller way.

it is quite surprising given your hard line attitude of 'responsibility' just how relaxed you have been with your children's financial learnings.

 

[princesss]

Date: 7/22/2009 12:44:30 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:21:18 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 2:15:03 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 2:00:39 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 1:50:32 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:52:40 AM
Author: TravelingGal
DF, not to sound harsh, honestly but...

It is people like you and your wife who create the type of people who walk away from home loans or buy lobsters with food stamps. Why? Because you are teaching your daughter how to WORK THE SYSTEM. And in this case, the ''system'' being worked is you.

i would never allow my kids to do the 0 down B.S. loans

That''s the problem DF, your kids don''t care what you allow or not. They''re spending as they see fit. Plus how are they going to save for a downpayment? Or are you going to pony up that money too? I lifetime of DF handouts?

Sign me up! I''m Korean...I''ll pass as your Chinese daughter!!

well, in that case they aren''t gonna buy a house,are they?

Why not? You''re already teaching them they don''t need money to buy things...

believe me, when the time comes i''ll be sure she can afford the mortgage before she signs the papers.

As an adult, she won''t need your permission to do it. She bought 4 purses she couldn''t afford without having the cash - what if she''s the type to get suckered into something she can''t afford, sign the papers and then call you up saying, "Daddy, guess what a great deal I got!"

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/22/2009 12:44:30 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:21:18 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 2:15:03 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 2:00:39 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/22/2009 1:50:32 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:52:40 AM
Author: TravelingGal
DF, not to sound harsh, honestly but...

It is people like you and your wife who create the type of people who walk away from home loans or buy lobsters with food stamps. Why? Because you are teaching your daughter how to WORK THE SYSTEM. And in this case, the ''system'' being worked is you.

i would never allow my kids to do the 0 down B.S. loans

That''s the problem DF, your kids don''t care what you allow or not. They''re spending as they see fit. Plus how are they going to save for a downpayment? Or are you going to pony up that money too? I lifetime of DF handouts?

Sign me up! I''m Korean...I''ll pass as your Chinese daughter!!

well, in that case they aren''t gonna buy a house,are they?

Why not? You''re already teaching them they don''t need money to buy things...

believe me, when the time comes i''ll be sure she can afford the mortgage before she signs the papers.

Nope DF, I don''t believe you. You''ve haven''t done much yet to make sure you daughter is fiscally responsible. IF she even comes to you wanting to buy a house with no downpayment, I''d be willing to bet you''re going to give it to her, which again teaches her nothing.

People who buy FOUR coach bags (and as "punishment" only has to return two of them) don''t magically learn how to save. Ever visited the purse forum? Daughters like yours are a dime a dozen. Shrieking in delight over their new purchases and then in the same breath announcing a "purse ban" because they now have to pay off their credit cards which have been racked up to the moon. I visited that board when I was researching a bag of my own and was shocked at the irresponsibility, enabling and complete lack of grounding of some of those young women. And none of them were going to learn from their mistakes any time soon - because bags made them happy.

Do you want to know what kind of people save up 20% downpayments for 500K loans (and that''s if you can buy a house for that amount in your area)? People like me. And you want to know what I was doing when I was your daughter''s age?

- I was freaking out because I had a 3K credit card bill from my college years and nothing to show for it - meaning I used it for food and living expenses because I was too embarrassed to tell my mom I quit my job without finding another one (good lesson learned early there!). I never charged stuff like purses or shoes on it.

- My cousin actually loaned me the money ($2500) to make the bill collectors go away. I was so thankful that I lived at home, never went out, and lived the next 5 years without a car (don''t need gas money if you don''t have a car - and in LA of all places!) so I could pay her back within ONE year. I made $12 an hour that year.

- My parents had no money so I had to learn to pay for rent and all our living expenses in my early-mid twenties. (My father moved back to Korea looking for work and my mom worked as a cashier for $5 an hour at a small Korean grocery store. That was LESS than minimum wage at the time.)

- I never accrued even ONE dollar in debt after my cousin helped me pay off my debt. And to this day I am so grateful and embarrassed that she had to help me.

- I carried a cheap cloth (hippie style) backpacksack for 4 years until it was falling apart. My friend BEGGED me to get a new bag saying I looked beyond hobo.

So DF, IMHO you are DREAMING if you think people learn fiscal responsibility because you''ll "have a talk with them when the time comes." The kind of fiscal responsibility you believe everyone SHOULD have comes from some hard life lessons, a sense of responsibility and pride in taking care of yourself.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2009 12:51:31 PM
Author: princesss

believe me, when the time comes i''ll be sure she can afford the mortgage before she signs the papers.

As an adult, she won''t need your permission to do it. She bought 4 purses she couldn''t afford without having the cash - what if she''s the type to get suckered into something she can''t afford, sign the papers and then call you up saying, ''Daddy, guess what a great deal I got!''

those days are gone. no banks going to loan her any money with 0 down,plus her don''t have any credit history at this time.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2009 12:51:18 PM
Author: Mara

she''s an adult...what if she doesn''t ask you? she doesn''t have to tell you anything she doesn''t want to. she could finish school, get a job and a mortgage she can''t afford quite easily, people do it all the time. just like they load up on CC''s they can''t pay off and don''t understand how to use. do you really think it won''t happen to her...why? it''s already happening in a smaller way.

it is quite surprising given your hard line attitude of ''responsibility'' just how relaxed you have been with your children''s financial learnings.

she''ll get her first pay check on July 31 and i will cancel her CC on Aug 1.

 

[princesss]

Date: 7/22/2009 1:07:28 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 12:51:31 PM
Author: princesss

believe me, when the time comes i''ll be sure she can afford the mortgage before she signs the papers.

As an adult, she won''t need your permission to do it. She bought 4 purses she couldn''t afford without having the cash - what if she''s the type to get suckered into something she can''t afford, sign the papers and then call you up saying, ''Daddy, guess what a great deal I got!''

those days are gone. no banks going to loan her any money with 0 down,plus her don''t have any credit history at this time.

I didn''t say 0 down, I said something she can''t afford. There are still (and will always be) people out to make a quick buck off of a sucker who doesn''t know any better, and you''re not protecting your daughter from them by letting her run wild.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2009 1:06:06 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Nope DF, I don''t believe you. You''ve haven''t done much yet to make sure you daughter is fiscally responsible. IF she even comes to you wanting to buy a house with no downpayment, I''d be willing to bet you''re going to give it to her, which again teaches her nothing.

TG
i won''t,but i''m afraid her momm might.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 7/22/2009 9:56:59 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 7/22/2009 9:48:06 AM
Author: ksinger

But what can I say? Here I am, such an old softie, pandering to his need for PS attention.

Well I for one am just glad to see you again! You need to ''get out'' more!

Hi Ellen! Nice to see ya.

Oh, I''m sure this is just a little burst, and I''ll lapse back into a posting torpor soon. I''ve been non-computer-y for a good while now. Being in the IT field, sometimes I just hit the end of my check-the-forums-email-FB tether, and go into hibernation. Besides, I''m tooling up to learn silversmithing, so I have other computerly tasks at the moment. (Choosing a torch: a BIG decision)

 

[HollyS]

Date: 7/22/2009 9:48:06 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 7/21/2009 7:22:15 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 7/21/2009 2:40:05 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/21/2009 2:02:32 PM
Author: ksinger












I''d have more sympathy for DF if he was not such a tough talker about sucking it up and letting people fall on their faces when they make bad choices.
He needs to first apply his own advice to himself and be a real parent and do the tough work, and then he needs to step back and let his daughter learn the tough lessons that he advocates for everyone else.

Ksinger
i had already forgiven you about the choice you made last Nov.

Bygones. (A little Richard Fish reference for the Ally McBeal lovers out there.)

She IS right about your issue, though.

Bygones? Perhaps. I can''t NOT know how DF approaches other people''s problems though. He''s shown time after time that he is tough on others'' money choices. If there is anything worse than raising a fiscally irresponsible child, in my book, it is pointing the finger at other people''s children while being oblivious to the fact that YOU are contributing to the problems you have no sympathy for. Until he can apply the same tough yardstick to his own, I really do have no sympathy, and think his public rant should be directed at himself. Of course mea culpas and deep self-reflection on a public board are quite a bit less fun than complaining, I realize.

But what can I say? Here I am, such an old softie, pandering to his need for PS attention.

You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. Often, his rhetoric, ramblings, and rumblings are nothing more than a ''stirring of the pot'' here on PS. Fun for him, and attention getting. I can''t take some of his opinions too seriously; he has far too much fun goading folks.

He amuses us. (Some of us.) That''s why we let him poke at us. This time, we''re poking back.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 7/22/2009 10:10:02 AM
Author: SparklyLibra


This is EXACTLY the reason I do not give my 8 year old everything he asks for, even when I know I have the means to give it to him... He is learning the concept of ''delayed gratification'' at a very early age. At 8 years old, his allowance is somewhat earned. He starts off with a fixed sum that he has the ability to earn each week, IF he keeps up with his chores. If he does his chores, he gets the full amount... If he doesn''t he gets half. At least this way he learns that if you don''t work, you don''t get paid.... The only reason I even give him the other half is as a tool to teach him to budget and save.

SparklyLibra - Hi, I have a 7 and an 8 year old who I pay to do chores. Just curious, what kinds of chores does you son do and how much do you pay him.

 

[Mara]

Date: 7/22/2009 8:00:14 PM
Author: MC

Date: 7/22/2009 10:10:02 AM
Author: SparklyLibra


This is EXACTLY the reason I do not give my 8 year old everything he asks for, even when I know I have the means to give it to him... He is learning the concept of ''delayed gratification'' at a very early age. At 8 years old, his allowance is somewhat earned. He starts off with a fixed sum that he has the ability to earn each week, IF he keeps up with his chores. If he does his chores, he gets the full amount... If he doesn''t he gets half. At least this way he learns that if you don''t work, you don''t get paid.... The only reason I even give him the other half is as a tool to teach him to budget and save.

SparklyLibra - Hi, I have a 7 and an 8 year old who I pay to do chores. Just curious, what kinds of chores does you son do and how much do you pay him.

Darn I never got paid to do chores! I was shafted!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/22/2009 8:02:21 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 7/22/2009 8:00:14 PM
Author: MC

Date: 7/22/2009 10:10:02 AM
Author: SparklyLibra


This is EXACTLY the reason I do not give my 8 year old everything he asks for, even when I know I have the means to give it to him... He is learning the concept of ''delayed gratification'' at a very early age. At 8 years old, his allowance is somewhat earned. He starts off with a fixed sum that he has the ability to earn each week, IF he keeps up with his chores. If he does his chores, he gets the full amount... If he doesn''t he gets half. At least this way he learns that if you don''t work, you don''t get paid.... The only reason I even give him the other half is as a tool to teach him to budget and save.

SparklyLibra - Hi, I have a 7 and an 8 year old who I pay to do chores. Just curious, what kinds of chores does you son do and how much do you pay him.

Darn I never got paid to do chores! I was shafted!

Me too! It was just what I had to do to pitch in a family member. Boy, lucky me!

 

[SparklyLibra]

Date: 7/22/2009 8:00:14 PM
Author: MC

Date: 7/22/2009 10:10:02 AM

Author: SparklyLibra



This is EXACTLY the reason I do not give my 8 year old everything he asks for, even when I know I have the means to give it to him... He is learning the concept of ''delayed gratification'' at a very early age. At 8 years old, his allowance is somewhat earned. He starts off with a fixed sum that he has the ability to earn each week, IF he keeps up with his chores. If he does his chores, he gets the full amount... If he doesn''t he gets half. At least this way he learns that if you don''t work, you don''t get paid.... The only reason I even give him the other half is as a tool to teach him to budget and save.

SparklyLibra - Hi, I have a 7 and an 8 year old who I pay to do chores. Just curious, what kinds of chores does you son do and how much do you pay him.

Hi MC! His chore is to empty the garbage pails in all the bathrooms twice a week, and to put all the little baggies into the big GLAD-bag on the night before garbage day.

He gets $8/ week. When he is 9 he will get $9/week, and so on and so forth, keeping in mind his chores will change or increase as well. When he''s 15, if $15/ week isn''t enough for him, he can go get a p/t or weekend job bagging groceries at the nearest Sobeys, lol

It may sound strange to some, but it works for us, and my son has a pretty good grasp of the concept... I often hear him correcting his friends, and his teacher has made him the class treasurer

 

[SparklyLibra]

Date: 7/22/2009 8:02:21 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 7/22/2009 8:00:14 PM

Author: MC

Date: 7/22/2009 10:10:02 AM

Author: SparklyLibra



This is EXACTLY the reason I do not give my 8 year old everything he asks for, even when I know I have the means to give it to him... He is learning the concept of ''delayed gratification'' at a very early age. At 8 years old, his allowance is somewhat earned. He starts off with a fixed sum that he has the ability to earn each week, IF he keeps up with his chores. If he does his chores, he gets the full amount... If he doesn''t he gets half. At least this way he learns that if you don''t work, you don''t get paid.... The only reason I even give him the other half is as a tool to teach him to budget and save.

SparklyLibra - Hi, I have a 7 and an 8 year old who I pay to do chores. Just curious, what kinds of chores does you son do and how much do you pay him.

Darn I never got paid to do chores! I was shafted!

LOL, you and me both Mara! I didn''t get a dime! It got done without even an expectation of pay. I had a chat with my boy about this and told him that because I didn''t have any experience with money as a kid, I went buck wild as a teenager/ young adult, and suffered for it....

Also, in our home we have mandatory chores, and earnable chores... He gets NUTTIN for the mandatory chores

 

[Beacon]

Hey DF - you know the saying "three generations from shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves"?

It means first generation has very little, works hard in grubby job to get ahead. Then second generation copies first generation''s hard work, but has the headstart given by first generation''s sacrifice. They do well.

Then third generation comes, is totally spoiled amd loses everything that was built up for them!

Don''t let your DD be one of those.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/22/2009 10:23:16 PM
Author: Beacon
Hey DF - you know the saying ''three generations from shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves''?

It means first generation has very little, works hard in grubby job to get ahead. Then second generation copies first generation''s hard work, but has the headstart given by first generation''s sacrifice. They do well.

Then third generation comes, is totally spoiled amd loses everything that was built up for them!

Don''t let your DD be one of those.

This has been true for our family, and it''s what I fear for my daughter.

 

[VRBeauty]

DF, I think the question is -- are you viewing this as punishment, or are you taking this as an opportunity to teach your daughters something about personal finance, responsibility, and budgeting (other than "hide your splurges from Daddy")?

Think "teachable moment."

 

[*Danielle*]

I truly doubt anything said here will change what he does with his daughter. She already has a sense of entitlement and I would not be surprised one bit if the cc did not get canceled.

Only having her return 2 purses is laughable.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2009 11:26:20 PM
Author: VRBeauty
DF, I think the question is -- are you viewing this as punishment, or are you taking this as an opportunity to teach your daughters something about personal finance, responsibility, and budgeting (other than ''hide your splurges from Daddy'')?

Think ''teachable moment.''

i told her from now on she must manage her own money,if she can''t afford to pay cash something then don''t buy it.i said...if i keep on paying your bills i would be doing you more harm then good and you''ll understand what i mean as you get older.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/23/2009 12:04:32 AM
Author: *Danielle*
I truly doubt anything said here will change what he does with his daughter. She already has a sense of entitlement and I would not be surprised one bit if the cc did not get canceled.

Only having her return 2 purses is laughable.

one of the purse is for mom.

 

[movie zombie]

spending $ she doesn''t have is ok as long as she''s buying it for mom?! i would assume mom can buy her own purse.......

and of course there is the fact she gets to keep one herself. wow, big lesson learned here.

mz

 

[zhuzhu]

I think DF has heard more than enough of that he needs to hear. What is important is to let DF and his wife decide for themselves how much gift-giving they want to do for their children, and how they want to educate their children.

Most of the time over-criticizing is simply counter -productive.

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 7/23/2009 1:09:37 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 11:26:20 PM

i told her from now on she must manage her own money,if she can't afford to pay cash something then don't buy it.i said...if i keep on paying your bills i would be doing you more harm then good and you'll understand what i mean as you get older.

FIrst of all, DF -- I'm impressed that you're keeping up this dialogue with us even though you're really taking a drubbing here. So... kudos for that!

I'd just encourage you to find an opportunity to have a dialogue -- a real two-way conversation -- with your daughters about finances. Especially with your older daughter... at this point she's doing one of two (maybe three, but I doubt it) things. One, she's trying to figure out keep the contributions from the parents coming, or how to get credit from other sources, so she won't have to change her free-spending ways. 2) She's realizing that her standard of living is about to change drastically, and panicking because she doesn't have a clue about how to manage her money, or 3) -- the highly unlikely scenario -- sketching out a monthly budget, maybe even searching on-line and in the library for financial how-to's for young adults.


Actually that point will probably come in a week or two, when she get her first paycheck and the reality of "take-home pay" really sinks in.

You and Mrs. DF have a chance to sit down with her and say hey, how does it look financially? Have you worked out a monthly budget? You know, you might want to set up a special savings account for (emergencies, vacation, holiday funds,... fill in the blank.)

BTW I was fiercely independent as a young adult -- the result of growing up in a fairly controlling household and feeling like any help my parents gave me had strings attached. I started work my career as a grad student assistant and bought my house 2 1/2 years later. (I accepted my parents' offer of a small loan only so I wouldn't be without emergency funds after the down-payment, and I repaid it with interest within two years.) But I knew my parents would help out in a real pinch... it probably helped me take that financial plunge. They also helped in other ways... like never complaining about picking me up at the greyhound station when I went home to visit, since I did without a car for a long time... or like the big box of new kitchen gadgets my mother gave me when I moved into my first apartment. I think there are ways for you to support your daughter as she moves into this next stage of her life without hobbling her independence.

Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching or something. I don't mean to do that. I'm just reacting to clamor for you to take a "throw her under the bus" approach.

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 7/23/2009 1:42:58 AM
Author: zhuzhu
I think DF has heard more than enough of that he needs to hear. What is important is to let DF and his wife decide for themselves how much gift-giving they want to do for their children, and how they want to educate their children.

Zhuzhu... it took me a page to say what you said in two lines!

 

[Amethyste]

Date: 7/22/2009 1:29:55 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/22/2009 1:06:06 PM

Author: TravelingGal


Nope DF, I don't believe you. You've haven't done much yet to make sure you daughter is fiscally responsible. IF she even comes to you wanting to buy a house with no downpayment, I'd be willing to bet you're going to give it to her, which again teaches her nothing. When one says white and the other says black, she'll get the hang of this and will play the other parent until she gets her way. And it's working !

TG

i won't,but i'm afraid her momm might.

What? Don't you and your wife have any kind of communication in between each other? From your previous posts, I assumer there isn't much... you have to be on the same page in order to "teach" your children right.

 

[Amethyste]

I wanted to add that when a parent says black and the other one says white, the child picks up on that and will play that to their advantage and get to manipulate situations to her advantage... Looks like she has learned that very well already.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 7/23/2009 1:42:58 AM
Author: zhuzhu
I think DF has heard more than enough of that he needs to hear. What is important is to let DF and his wife decide for themselves how much gift-giving they want to do for their children, and how they want to educate their children.

Most of the time over-criticizing is simply counter -productive.

Maybe, but then most of the time airing one''s personal problems in a public forum full of strangers is counterproductive. That''s usually why we all have real-life face-to-face friends.

DF and his wife are around 50 years old, and have essentially already raised their daughter. Anything they do from here on out is damage control. If he and his wife have not figured out a parenting strategy by this point in the game, I seriously doubt advice and life-stories from 20-somethings are going to impact him or her much at all.

 

[movie zombie]

and to piggyback on that: the posts DF has made re others'' financial situation have been far from kind....specially re real estate. to find that he''s raised daughters who are not financially responsible is evidence of a severe disconnect. he still doesn''t get the connection between how one was raised can make one prone to making poor decisions.

mz

ps i started being much more soft in my tone; however, i''m now thinking people who live in glass houses s[and refuse to acknowledge living in a glass house] hould not throw stones.........DF is all about others stepping up to accept responsibility: now its his turn.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/23/2009 9:22:26 AM
Author: Amethyste
I wanted to add that when a parent says black and the other one says white, the child picks up on that and will play that to their advantage and get to manipulate situations to her advantage... Looks like she has learned that very well already.

this is her first job and that''s the reason why i decided now is the time to cut her off financially.i told my wife not to help her out with $$$''s from now on.