Need some work advice

[prs]

To put it another way; people who are not British cannot comprehend British humor based on sarcasm. I can say from experience it is a big problem when you think you are being funny and everyone else in the room thinks you are being a jackass!

 

[Ionysis]

To put it another way; people who are not British cannot comprehend British humor based on sarcasm. I can say from experience it is a big problem when you think you are being funny and everyone else in the room thinks you are being a jackass!

I should take this off my whiteboard then?

 

[icy_jade]

I should take this off my whiteboard then?

Think yes

 

[diamondyes]

Soooo I think you’re hilarious but at work, you won’t be the first who has to “play the game” and let workplace politics reign supreme. It sucks. But if you want to get ahead, IMO, the art of finesse and tact and knowing how to speak the language of your colleagues will get you ahead. Would it help if you thought of it as a work challenge, instead of inauthenticity?

A sense of humour is a great thing, I love it. Making your colleagues feel like they’ve lost face… not good for anyone.

It is a skill to express yourself clearly, directly, and as inoffensively as possible. It is total BS that women have been given this task, and I commend you on how far you’ve gotten in your career. You are an inspiration to me! Sounds like you’ve got further to go, and you can be your fully unfiltered self when you’re CEO

 

[diamondyes]

To put it another way; people who are not British cannot comprehend British humor based on sarcasm. I can say from experience it is a big problem when you think you are being funny and everyone else in the room thinks you are being a jackass!

+1

 

[Ionysis]

Think yes

I was only kidding. I wrote it for you guys - wiped it off before the team got in LOL!

 

[diamondyes]

I was only kidding. I wrote it for you guys - wiped it off before the team got in LOL!

Example of your humour being taken seriously? (By PSers)

 

[icy_jade]

I was only kidding. I wrote it for you guys - wiped it off before the team got in LOL!

Phew, was worried for a moment. See, the serious Asian can’t tell if you are joking or not.

 

[DutchJackie]

Congrats on your career! I can’t help you from my own perspective, because I’m in a creative sector. Husband is the one that has to deal with office politics with international colleagues. As a direct and straight talking Dutch person he was one time given a book. It’s called The Culture Map. It was a not so subtle hint to him that he needed to change his communication. You have identified it as your “needs some work” point, and ’m sure you can do it!

 

[prs]

I should take this off my whiteboard then?

You are definitely on the right track. It will take some work to get past the poor first impressions but it is eminently doable, and well worth the effort.

I think you already know this. but almost all cultures are much less direct than the British. You have to do a fair amount of dancing around and doling out face saving compliments before you deliver anything that might be perceived as negative criticism. I would imagine this applies in spades to a female.

That's an excellent project summary and a fantastic template, but to take full advantage of your ideas, we might need a tad more space to write things down.

 

[qubitasaurus]

I hired a management coach to help me understand relations with colleagues, especially those above me.

I am not good at this myself. I often correct people. I have had some truly gifted bosses who were fine with it and either laughed it off or often thuroughly explored the idea and the ramifications with me. And perhaps I picked up some habbits I shouldnt have. My current boss is definitely not OK with being wrong. So I ended up with a stellar management coach.

The advise this coach gave me was good (she had coached senior female executives in other industries).

Her advice was that I was making the other person lose face. Irrespective of who they were, this wasn't the right way to get the outcome I wanted. I needed to turn it arround and ask 'how do you think XXX will work? Do you think we should do something about YYY?' And then let them advise from their position of expertis/authority. Even if the thing they just proposed to me was clearly going to fail and one of the worst ideas Ive ever heard, I critically needed to get them to come to that conclusion by asking them questions to get their advice. That way they could correct themselves without losing face.

If I really couldn't get them to stop, I needed to talk to them afterwards, not in front of anyone else.

Generally three deep breaths before I spoke so I didn't accidentally display any emotion. As I needed feedback to be completely emotionless to ensure I didn't detract from the information.

Actually I almost forgot, but she also advised me to start out by reflecting some of the information back at them. This showed I was both interested and engaged and trying to make sure I cached things like I am on the same page/side as them. It also gave an opportunity to raise some of the pertinent points into their attention so you have the right pretext for the discussion.

It's probably not your authentic self, and exactly what you'd rather skip. But I have to acknowledge that it works and the other way did not.

I have to say cudos for dealing with so many stake holders and managing to have happy staff. You must be doing an incredible job.

 

[icy_jade]

Her advice was that I was making the other person lose face. Irrespective of who they were, this wasn't the right way to get the outcome I wanted. I needed to turn it arround and ask 'how do you think XXX will work? Do you think we should do something about YYY?' And then let them advise from their position of expertis/authority. Even if the thing they just proposed to me was clearly going to fail and one of the worst ideas Ive ever heard, I critically needed to get them to come to that conclusion by asking them questions to get their advice. That way they could correct themselves without losing face.

If I really couldn't get them to stop, I needed to talk to them afterwards, not in front of anyone else.

Generally three deep breaths before I spoke so I didn't accidentally display any emotion. As I needed feedback to be completely emotionless to ensure I didn't detract from the information.

Great advice!! We can all learn from this.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Great advice!! We can all learn from this.

Thank you, she was super expensive and super worthwhile. So I am actually delighted to be sharing some of it (makes it feel like somehow I am sharing the benefits, and the positive outcomes).

 

[Ionysis]

I hired a management coach to help me understand relations with colleagues, especially those above me.

I am not good at this myself. I often correct people. I have had some truly gifted bosses who were fine with it and either laughed it off or often thuroughly explored the idea and the ramifications with me. And perhaps I picked up some habbits I shouldnt have. My current boss is definitely not OK with being wrong. So I ended up with a stellar management coach.

The advise this coach gave me was good (she had coached senior female executives in other industries).

Her advice was that I was making the other person lose face. Irrespective of who they were, this wasn't the right way to get the outcome I wanted. I needed to turn it arround and ask 'how do you think XXX will work? Do you think we should do something about YYY?' And then let them advise from their position of expertis/authority. Even if the thing they just proposed to me was clearly going to fail and one of the worst ideas Ive ever heard, I critically needed to get them to come to that conclusion by asking them questions to get their advice. That way they could correct themselves without losing face.

If I really couldn't get them to stop, I needed to talk to them afterwards, not in front of anyone else.

Generally three deep breaths before I spoke so I didn't accidentally display any emotion. As I needed feedback to be completely emotionless to ensure I didn't detract from the information.

Actually I almost forgot, but she also advised me to start out by reflecting some of the information back at them. This showed I was both interested and engaged and trying to make sure I cached things like I am on the same page/side as them. It also gave an opportunity to raise some of the pertinent points into their attention so you have the right pretext for the discussion.

It's probably not your authentic self, and exactly what you'd rather skip. But I have to acknowledge that it works and the other way did not.

I have to say cudos for dealing with so many stake holders and managing to have happy staff. You must be doing an incredible job.

Thank you so much. I know I CAN do things this way (I dealt with clients for 20 years before the internal stuff and there was a lot of this!). I just need to MAKE myself do it. I’m so focused on getting to the endgame in the fastest way possible that it’s AGONISING to have to smile sweetly and play the game rather than just bulldoze through.

I just need to take those deep breaths, smile and think of others feelings (egos!) as well as the goal.

I have thought of a career coach and I know a very good one who also coached our c-suite. But I wonder if it’s going to be worth it when I do honestly know the issue and what I need to do to fix them. Frankly it’s just down to me to implement it. Sigh.

 

[Ionysis]

Really, I am so grateful to everyone who has commented on this thread. It may seem crazy to come to a jewellery forum for career guidance but it’s been so valuable! I will honestly try my best to make the changes you’ve suggested.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Thank you so much. I know I CAN do things this way (I dealt with clients for 20 years before the internal stuff and there was a lot of this!). I just need to MAKE myself do it. I’m so focused on getting to the endgame in the fastest way possible that it’s AGONISING to have to smile sweetly and play the game rather than just bulldoze through.

I just need to take those deep breaths, smile and think of others feelings (egos!) as well as the goal.

I have thought of a career coach and I know a very good one who also coached our c-suite. But I wonder if it’s going to be worth it when I do honestly know the issue and what I need to do to fix them. Frankly it’s just down to me to implement it. Sigh.

Yes I got the feeling you couldn't have made it to where you are or have had such positive line manager scores, without already having these skills.

I am actually wondering what your experience is though (you've had far more senior positions than me so I am a bit curious). Was it faster(/I guess I mean was it more productive) to talk people around into your perspective, or to try to say more directly what was wrong with the situation and what they needed to fix? I am a bit curious, so I would welcome everyone's perspectives on this.

Regarding the management coaching. I think there wasn't any silver bullets, but just having her reinforce what I needed to do was really helpful for me. But I am earlier in my career, and not as senior so I was not confident about whether I had correctly identified and caught all the problems. Having the coach helped me be a bit more confident on what to focus on, so I could go forward.

 

[icy_jade]

I did DISC many years ago and it’s been one of those tools that has stayed with me all these years.

It’s not perfect but imo provides a tool to assess how different personalities react and also how to interact with different personalities. E.g. if you are a D, how you should interact with an I person.



What I realized is that many women in leadership positions fall into the D quadrant and it probably got them to where they are (delivering results, etc) but the negative traits also sets them back as the traits can be magnified for women vs men (being perceived as a ‘bitch’, etc).

So just putting it out here in case it helps anyone. There are tones of free literature on the DISC personality assessment that a Google search will turn up if you are interested.

 

[Ionysis]

I was successful in dealing with clients here because I covered the Strategic Clients segments (semi government with the biggest transaction sizes). Most of the Exec management in those clients were actually western. They appreciated a no BS approach.

A lot of bankers they saw promised the Earth and then couldn’t deliver it (Credit said no, they didn’t have limits etc.). They knew I wouldn’t try to sell them anything I didn’t think was suitable and if I said I could get a facility through committee I’d do it and do it fast. If I could not help them I’d tell them immediately and not waste their time. If I could help I’d drive things through quickly and go straight to the top if I needed to cut through the crap - all my deals were over $100m and often in the billions so I could get the audience I needed internally.

I generally have good relationships with all the internal stakeholders I dealt with in my previous role. They are deal makers or decision makers and they know my style. Even the Risk functions work well with me because I clearly say “no” when necessary and enforce the risk policies we have whilst being aware of the commercial realities.

The ones I struggle with are in IT, Procurement, Operations, Business Services, Marketing, Finance, HR etc. Our internal processes are outdated, cumbersome, approvals on approvals on approvals, people who have been in the same job for decades and don’t appreciate my suggestions that they can, and should, do things better. They are effectively serving the revenue generating business (my group) so technically I have every right to challenge them if their “service” isn’t up to scratch. But they don’t see it that way!

 

[Ionysis]

I did DISC many years ago and it’s been one of those tools that has stayed with me all these years.

It’s not perfect but imo provides a tool to assess how different personalities react and also how to interact with different personalities. E.g. if you are a D, how you should interact with an I person.




What I realized is that many women in leadership positions fall into the D quadrant and it probably got them to where they are (delivering results, etc) but the negative traits also sets them back as the traits can be magnified for women vs men (being perceived as a ‘bitch’, etc).

So just putting it out here in case it helps anyone.

I’ve done this and a variety of other similar exercises. I find DISC a bit limited / stereotyping. My favourite is the Clifton Strength Finder. Really a super management tool. These are very useful steers though.

 

[Ionysis]

Yes I got the feeling you couldn't have made it to where you are or have had such positive line manager scores, without already having these skills.

I am actually wondering what your experience is though (you've had far more senior positions than me so I am a bit curious). Was it faster(/I guess I mean was it more productive) to talk people around into your perspective, or to try to say more directly what was wrong with the situation and what they needed to fix? I am a bit curious, so I would welcome everyone's perspectives on this.

Regarding the management coaching. I think there wasn't any silver bullets, but just having her reinforce what I needed to do was really helpful for me. But I am earlier in my career, and not as senior so I was not confident about whether I had correctly identified and caught all the problems. Having the coach helped me be a bit more confident on what to focus on, so I could go forward.

Oh, another thing I found very, very helpful was that all my Group Heads, if not my actual line managers, for the last 15 years have been from a similar background and have (largely) also appreciated my direct approach / humour. I’m certain that has helped me get promoted. If I had had different leadership I’m not sure I’d be where I am now. A lot of it is luck. Right place, right time when someone leaves. Closing the right transaction when the CEO is chairing a meeting. Stepping in when someone is sick and people seeing you can actually do that job. So much dumb luck.

 

[icy_jade]

I’ve done this and a variety of other similar exercises. I find DISC a bit limited / stereotyping. My favourite is the Clifton Strength Finder. Really a super management tool. These are very useful steers though.

DISC is free hence I brought it up. But these exercises can be really quite interesting and helps to build self awareness. I mean it starts with awareness before change can happen right?

Makes me feel like digging up my reports to have a read again.

 

[SparklieBug]

I have thought of a career coach and I know a very good one who also coached our c-suite. But I wonder if it’s going to be worth it when I do honestly know the issue and what I need to do to fix them. Frankly it’s just down to me to implement it. Sigh.

My understanding (from a close friend who is an MCC and an accredited coach supervisor) is that coaches help clients to be accountable, keeping to time frames, goals, etc.

I find even when I know what I need to change, if I'm not held to account, it's easy to procrastinate or ignore what I need to do.

Kudos to you for all you've accomplished.

 

[Ionysis]

My understanding (from a close friend who is an MCC and an accredited coach supervisor) is that coaches help clients to be accountable, keeping to time frames, goals, etc.

I find even when I know what I need to change, if I'm not held to account, it's easy to procrastinate or ignore what I need to do.

Kudos to you for all you've accomplished.

That is a VERY good point…..

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Get rid of the British humor based on sarcasm. I am English and took a job in America when I was 26. Even though I am male that humor did not go over well at work because nobody realized I was joking. It definitely hurt my performance ratings until I figured out my problem and managed to tone it down...but that was easier said than done and took some effort and practice. In the beginning as soon as I saw people weren't reacting the way they should, I would quickly go into damage control mode and say that was meant as a joke and apologize!

I had no idea it was an English trait
Is it a new thing ?
My MIL was English and wasn't sarcastic
Maybe that boss i complained about before wasn't even awear she was doing it - but ill say again what she did say used to be quite hurtful (and i was a good worker btw)

I always thought scarcasm was the lowest form of wit
my sister uses it all the time and its not attractive

When we used to have a political forum on my on line Bruce Springsteen community we used to do sarcasm in pink font so everybody knew because it is not universal humour