Need opinions on this diamond, please

[TheBlingleys]

First of all I am more of a lurker than a poster. This is a potential upgrade I am in need of opinions about the GIA cert diamond below: Is it worth looking at? It is a J SI1. I currently have a J VS1 and have no problems with the color. Picture also attached. Help is appreciated. I have requested an Idealscope and ASET.

Depth 62.4, Table 57, Crown Angle 36.5, Pavillion 40.8 LH 75%

 

[Snowdrop13]

HCA score is 3.7, so I’d say pass.

 

[ctsamg]

I think you can do much better.

 

[lovedogs]

If you share your budget and desired specs we can help

 

[TheBlingleys]

The issue is selling. My current diamond. The one mentioned will not perform as well as my current one. It’s a 1.6 on the HCA.

 

[lovedogs]

The issue is selling. My current diamond. The one mentioned will not perform as well as my current one. It’s a 1.6 on the HCA.

Sorry, I'm a little confused. Are you working with a specific vendor to sell your current stone and buy a new one?

 

[sledge]

Depth 62.4, Table 57, Crown Angle 36.5, Pavillion 40.8 LH 75%

The reason you're getting a bad HCA score is because the crown/pavilion angle isn't complimentary. More specifically the steep 36.5 crown paired with the mildly steep 40.8 pavilion.

Ideally, you want to keep the crown in the 34-35 range, and the pavilion in the 40.6-40.9 range. The pavilion of this stone is meeting ideal criteria, but it's doesn't have a complimentary crown angle. This is very important for optimal light return. The crown & pavilion need to have an inverse relationship to one another.

In other words, steep crown/shallow pavilion or vice versa. For instance, a 35/40.6, 34/40.9 or a sweet spot for many people, 34.5/40.8 or 34.5/40.7.

Lastly, looking at the picture, I see there is a black crystal near the bottom of the arrow in the 12 o'clock position. Also, there is some additional smaller black spots on the table spanning from the 1-3 o'clock positions. There are some additional items I see that I am not calling out, but I do question if this stone is eye clean or not with the first black crystal I noted.

I'd echo others. Please provide the size and vendor constraints for shopping for a new stone. It sounds like you may be locked into a certain vendor in an effort to maximize trade value. If you give more details on that, maybe we can help find a stone with that particular vendor, or offer some alternative solutions.

 

[TheBlingleys]

Thank you for your responses and assistance.

@lovedogs , yes I am working with a specific vendor on trading in my current stone and buying a new one.

@sledge , great information. This makes it much clearer. The vendor said the stone is eye clean. The vendor was given PS quality for guidelines. My current stone checked all the boxes. This is why I don’t understand why this one was presented as an option. My current stone is table 54%, depth 62.1%, crown 34.5%, pavilion 40.8%.

I gave sent an email saying no to this stone and requested additional options.

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you for your responses and assistance.

@lovedogs , yes I am working with a specific vendor on trading in my current stone and buying a new one.

@sledge , great information. This makes it much clearer. The vendor said the stone is eye clean. The vendor was given PS quality for guidelines. My current stone checked all the boxes. This is why I don’t understand why this one was presented as an option. My current stone is table 54%, depth 62.1%, crown 34.5%, pavilion 40.8%.

I gave sent an email saying no to this stone and requested additional options.

Is it someone who has access to inventory listed online? We could help you search virtual inventory and then see if the jeweler can order any of them

 

[TheBlingleys]

Yes, the vendor has access to inventory listed online. I am looking for a size increase. My current stone is a J VS1 1.78 with medium blue fluorescence. I am hoping for a noticeable size increase.

ETA 7.80mm

 

[sledge]

@sledge , great information. This makes it much clearer. The vendor said the stone is eye clean. The vendor was given PS quality for guidelines. My current stone checked all the boxes. This is why I don’t understand why this one was presented as an option. My current stone is table 54%, depth 62.1%, crown 34.5%, pavilion 40.8%.

I gave sent an email saying no to this stone and requested additional options.

You're welcome, I'm glad I could make it more clear for you.

The stone you currently have seems quite lovely. If you aren't aware, a small table like that 54 you have is great for producing big fire. Smaller table = larger upper girdle facets, which is where rainbow light is produced. Also, the 34.5/40.8 combo is very complimentary. Fun fact if you aren't aware, the "perfect" Tolkowsky angle combo is a 34.5/40.75 so you see many people migrate towards the 34.5/40.7 and 34.5/40.8 combos. And of course your depth is within guidelines too.

I said all that to confirm, your existing stone is really quite perfect proportions wise. With your eyes used to seeing that type of combo I think you'd be sorely disappointed with the stone you originally asked about. I personally think you'd be happier with a 54-55 table and either 34.5/40.8 or 35/40.6 combo as it will replicate a personality similar to what you have now (assuming you love what you have, and just want bigger).

Is the vendor you are working with local, or an online guy that we can search their inventory? I don't mind to chase down a few on RareCarat or similar but it'd be helpful if you give us some dollar constraints and what YOU consider to be significant size increase.

If you aren't quite sure on the size, you can check out this website:

https://www.diamdb.com

One thing to keep in mind when shopping for diamonds is that carat weight is so deceitful. As you've probably already learned, a 1 carat stone doesn't look twice as large as a 0.5 carat stone. The reason for this is that carat weight also includes DEPTH. And as your diameter grows, so does your depth. So consequently, as carat weight increases, some of the size increase is sucked up in the depth which your eyes can't really see or appreciate.

In fact the formula to calculate approximate carat weight is: L x W x D x 0.0061

If you look on certificates you will see these dimensions. These dimensions are a much more practical way of shopping for significant size difference. Especially when you consider the table, crown, pavilion & depth play heavily into the final L & W dimensions. For instance a stone of lesser carat weight with large 58 table and shallow 34 crown may actually have a larger spread than a smaller 54 table with 35 crown.

Sometimes you might hear a reference to a stone being "steep & deep" meaning it has a very steep crown and is overly deep. Not only will the stone not have the light performance most desire, it will also look smaller visually because so much of the diamond weight is "hidden" in the proportions.

Couple this information with "magic carat weights" which is when a stone reaches a certain weight and is worth more because of such, then you have motive for some people cutting stones for weight and not beauty. Reality is a 1+ carat stone poorly cut is worth more than a well cut 0.9+ stone because people want to legitimately say they have a 1 carat stone, or whatever weight is true to them. As such, when I see stones that are a perfect weight (1ct, 2ct, 2.5ct, etc) I become suspicious of the cut quality.

Anyhow, didn't mean to diverge. Just wanted to give you some food for thought as you search out an upgrade.

Here is a comparison between a 1.78 (7.88mm) and 2.25ct (8.52mm) stone. Is this size difference significant enough for you? This is about 0.60mm difference. Or are you looking for more, and will your budget support an even larger size increase?

 

[sledge]

2.63ct J VVS2 @ $22,680
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R263-8301304Z4?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

Alternate vendors with the same stone:
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-2.63-carat-j-vvs2-yd5455655
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/5201979114?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/2....3.593&p=1&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

56 table, 61.8 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

Should be very similar to what you have. The ED link has an ASET and H&A images, along with standard image and video. While not a super ideal H&A stone, it is very, very nice. I wasn't intentionally searching for that high of clarity, but I do like it. Alas, the fact the stone is available elsewhere might give you a little leverage to negotiate a better price with your vendor, if it's not one already listed.


Some alternative thinking....

Since your stone seems to have pretty awesome proportions, have you considered talking to either WF and/or HPD to see if either would be interested in doing a trade with you? The nice thing about both these vendors is they are super ideal true H&A stones with superior customer service and phenomenal upgrade programs (spend $1 above initial price & get full value of original stone, no other restrictions).

WF ACA 2.28 J VS2 @ $17,796
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4068027.htm

55.3 table, 61.7 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 77 LGF

Holy sparkle balls! Freakin' love these proportions. Look at the video and fall in love with this baby. Lots and lots of fire. Great bang for the buck!

WF ACA 2.605 I SI1 @ $25,105
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4095779.htm

55.4 table, 61.7 depth, 34.4 crown, 40.7 pavilion & 77 LGF

Very similar to the above stone, except you get a color and size bump to 8.80mm.

HPD CBI 2.73 J VS2 @ $26,013
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10762

This stone is still being crafted (cut) so there is no proportion or measurement data. However, CBI has a very strong reputation for producing high quality super ideal stones. I have zero doubts it will be a beauty. What caught my attention was the size, color, clarity and price seemed to be a good pairing. If in your price range and a trade option with them is a possibility, this should be on your radar.

 

[TheBlingleys]

Once again your information is invaluable. Please continue to diverge. What you pointed out as far as numbers has confirmed our overall direction. I do love the personality of my current stone and would be extremely upset if the upgrade was not on par.

DH and I will look at the diamonds pointed out. I will also reconfirm our requirements to the vendor. Since this is an upgrade we looking for the right diamond...not just a size increase. This will be the final upgrade, we have other priorities. I am going to try on more sizes. I originally thought 8.5mm would be the sweet spot. Now I am not too sure. As far a budget, we will have to increase it a bit...but it is doable.