Need opinions on red spinel

[CaseyLouLou]

Hi. This is a red spinel from a vendor in Thailand that is around 2cts. It is highly fluorescent under UV. It looks a bit dark in the photos but I’m not expecting it to be neon. I have been wanting a red spinel but I’m not sure what a good one looks like other than the super duper neon Jedi spinels that I know I can’t afford. I just want a nice red. Does this look decent?

Also, it does have a little indentation near the bottom. It is from Burma.

 

[Autumn in New England]

May I ask your budget, my friend? I know you mentioned you're not looking for top flight color, but, depending on the price point, you may be able to find better. In other words, I think there is a healthy range of options in between the finest reds money can buy and this stone. I hope I'm not raining on your parade, but I want to be honest. These photos are well-lit, and the stone still appears quite dark/overly saturated (with a fair amount of extinction and windowing). The chipped keel/culet would also be a deal breaker for me. Lastly, judging by the photos posted alone, I would not call that strong fluorescence. It appears medium, at best. Naturally, I have no idea what the stone looks like in person, and it may be worth a gander (if there is a reasonable return policy in place). But, for now, I might keep browsing. These are all just my opinions, of course, and certainly not fact. Perhaps you like the deeper, garnet-like tones? I do still worry about that chip though. Anyway, I hope this helps?

 

[CaseyLouLou]

May I ask your budget, my friend? I know you mentioned you're not looking for top flight color, but, depending on the price point, you may be able to find better. In other words, I think there is a healthy range of options in between the finest reds money can buy and this stone. I hope I'm not raining on your parade, but I want to be honest. These photos are well-lit, and the stone still appears quite dark/overly saturated (with a fair amount of extinction and windowing). The chipped keel/culet would also be a deal breaker for me. Lastly, judging by the photos posted alone, I would not call that strong fluorescence. It appears medium, at best. Naturally, I have no idea what the stone looks like in person, and it may be worth a gander (if there is a reasonable return policy in place). But, for now, I might keep browsing. These are all just my opinions, of course, and certainly not fact. Perhaps you like the deeper, garnet-like tones? I do still worry about that chip though. Anyway, I hope this helps?

Thanks. I do appreciate the help and your honest opinion. I’m not good with reds. I do want it to have some brightness to it and not look like a dark red garnet. I’m not desperate and I don’t ‘need’ a red spinel but I have most of the other colors!

A lot of expensive ones I have seen online look very similar to me so that’s why I though maybe this one wasn’t so bad.

My budget is embarrassingly low and this one is around $650. I’m not sure there is anything in my budget which I would put at under $1000. I prefer a stone that is 1.5ct or so but would consider as small as 1ct and oval is preferable.

 

[fredflintstone]

The stone will be medium dark to dark very orangish red. It will look it best under sunlight (more vivid) & more brownish in other light. It does not have a window and as far as the culet goes that most likely is a inclusion reflecting white from light, but right at the tip could be a chip. I'm not going to say 100% it is. You would have to ask the vendor.

You did not specify the carat weight, but for $650 you can do a lot better in color (brighter and more vivid) albeit most likely smaller but still over one carat.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thanks. I do appreciate the help and your honest opinion. I’m not good with reds. I do want it to have some brightness to it and not look like a dark red garnet. I’m not desperate and I don’t ‘need’ a red spinel but I have most of the other colors!

A lot of expensive ones I have seen online look very similar to me so that’s why I though maybe this one wasn’t so bad.

My budget is embarrassingly low and this one is around $650. I’m not sure there is anything in my budget which I would put at under $1000. I prefer a stone that is 1.5ct or so but would consider as small as 1ct and oval is preferable.

There's nothing embarrassing about your budget... we all have one (if we're smart). Let me take a look around and see what we can come up with!

 

[Autumn in New England]

I checked my usual vendor haunts, and didn't see anything yet within your specs. I will keep browsing. I did, however, come across this stone (link below) on etsy. Now, the seller is a former PSer. A lot of folks have had good experiences with her. Personally, we didn't see eye-to-eye on a purchase, and, long story short, the transaction (along with our business relationship) end poorly. So I'm not thrilled to be giving her business (possibly), but my desire to help you find the right stone outweighs my need to boycott her. lol

The color of this stone looks very fine (as long as you don't mind a pinkish-red). If Chen describes it as "jedi," then I tend to trust that assessment. It appears to be a medium tone and vivid saturation. She also lists it as being eye clean. It is 1.12ct. and an emerald cut, so a little on the smaller end of your preference and not your desired oval shape. It is priced at $1,005.72, BUT Chen is usually quite flexible on pricing, and she specifically states in the listing that she is offering discounts. The biggest drawback for this stone is the window, in my opinion. It's going to depend on how sensitive you are to that, and if you can overlook it to have this fine a color and clarity in your price range. Let me know your thoughts!

P.S. If you have even a passing interest in this stone, contact Chen immediately to reserve it. Because lurkers be lurkin' girl!

1.12ct Jedi Red Spinel 100% Natural Nice Cutting No Treatment Eye Clean - Etsy

This Gemstones item by CDGEMSTONE has 79 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Canada. Listed on Feb 21, 2024

www.etsy.com

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I checked my usual vendor haunts, and didn't see anything yet within your specs. I will keep browsing. I did, however, come across this stone (link below) on etsy. Now, the seller is a former PSer. A lot of folks have had good experiences with her. Personally, we didn't see eye-to-eye on a purchase, and, long story short, the transaction (along with our business relationship) end poorly. So I'm not thrilled to be giving her business (possibly), but my desire to help you find the right stone outweighs my need to boycott her. lol

The color of this stone looks very fine (as long as you don't mind a pinkish-red). If Chen describes it as "jedi," then I tend to trust that assessment. It appears to be a medium tone and vivid saturation. She also lists it as being eye clean. It is 1.12ct. and an emerald cut, so a little on the smaller end of your preference and not your desired oval shape. It is priced at $1,005.72, BUT Chen is usually quite flexible on pricing, and she specifically states in the listing that she is offering discounts. The biggest drawback for this stone is the window, in my opinion. It's going to depend on how sensitive you are to that, and if you can overlook it to have this fine a color and clarity in your price range. Let me know your thoughts!

P.S. If you have even a passing interest in this stone, contact Chen immediately to reserve it. Because lurkers be lurkin' girl!

1.12ct Jedi Red Spinel 100% Natural Nice Cutting No Treatment Eye Clean - Etsy

This Gemstones item by CDGEMSTONE has 79 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Canada. Listed on Feb 21, 2024

www.etsy.com

Thank you. I’m going to pass on this one because I too have had a not so great interaction with the vendor. But also it’s at the top end of my budget and it’s leaning more pink than I want because I have a gorgeous hot pink spinel. This one needs to be more red if I’m going to purchase one. Please keep an eye out for me when you’re shopping. I’m not in a hurry.

Do you know how to find nice, calibrated gems? I have a setting that needs a new 7x5 stone and I would like something decent. I don’t care what color but probably pastel amd sparkly and my budget is on the low end, like less than $300. I love spinels but I’m open to anything really.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you. I’m going to pass on this one because I too have had a not so great interaction with the vendor. But also it’s at the top end of my budget and it’s leaning more pink than I want because I have a gorgeous hot pink spinel. This one needs to be more red if I’m going to purchase one. Please keep an eye out for me when you’re shopping. I’m not in a hurry.

Do you know how to find nice, calibrated gems? I have a setting that needs a new 7x5 stone and I would like something decent. I don’t care what color but probably pastel amd sparkly and my budget is on the low end, like less than $300. I love spinels but I’m open to anything really.

Oh really? Interesting! It seems I'm not the only one who found her to be less than amenable, which is a relief. I do consider myself rather equitable, so when I can't mesh with a seller in that respect, I'm fairly confident the fault lies with them. lol

Ok, I will keep my eyes open for truer red options! Also, for calibrated stones in that price range, I would absolutely recommend browsing JTV.

 

[Autumn in New England]

So here are my selections from Etsy... these are all going to be darker toned reds, but that is to be expected in this price range. All are under $1,000, and I'm sure you can negotiate even better prices. They're better cut than the original you posted, and don't have any surface defects. All are eye clean.

Ceylon natural Untreated VVS Clean Top Royal Red Precision Round Cut Spinel From Sri Lanka 2.32ct. - Etsy

You are looking at a natural untreated VVS clean top royal red precision round cut Spinel from Sri Lanka! The color, cut, and clarity make it a standout and it will look beautiful in any setting of your choice! Thanks for your consideration! Shape: Round Gemstone: Spinel Country of Origin: Sri

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

 

[Autumn in New England]

And here are the only ones on ebay, within your parameters, that I thought were worth a mention. Again, they are all darker toned. But I'll check with a few of my sources too.

1.52Ct Cushion, Beautiful Transparent Gemstone Unheated Vivid Red Spinel | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1.52Ct Cushion, Beautiful Transparent Gemstone Unheated Vivid Red Spinel at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

1.33 CT. CERTIFIED RED SPINEL RUBY RED AAA COLOR *FLAWLESS* VERY RARE!! IF | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1.33 CT. CERTIFIED RED SPINEL RUBY RED AAA COLOR *FLAWLESS* VERY RARE!! IF at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Red Spinel 1.28ct Fantastic Top Luster Awesome Best Sparkling Natural Gemstone | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Red Spinel 1.28ct Fantastic Top Luster Awesome Best Sparkling Natural Gemstone at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Do you know how to find nice, calibrated gems? I have a setting that needs a new 7x5 stone and I would like something decent. I don’t care what color but probably pastel amd sparkly and my budget is on the low end, like less than $300. I love spinels but I’m open to anything really.

How about morganite? It's pastel, clean and affordable. Or pink tourmaline.

 

[airplay355]

I honestly like the one you found. I’d pick that one. Seems like it might sometimes be a little dark and not always absolute red but is decent enough. I wouldn’t worry about the little issue at the bottom. Once set, you won’t see it easily. Plus, that’s an easy to tell it’s real.

You could also ask Gene for a synthetic if you just want something that color. Or look at red garnet.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

And here are the only ones on ebay, within your parameters, that I thought were worth a mention. Again, they are all darker toned. But I'll check with a few of my sources too.

1.52Ct Cushion, Beautiful Transparent Gemstone Unheated Vivid Red Spinel | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1.52Ct Cushion, Beautiful Transparent Gemstone Unheated Vivid Red Spinel at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

1.33 CT. CERTIFIED RED SPINEL RUBY RED AAA COLOR *FLAWLESS* VERY RARE!! IF | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1.33 CT. CERTIFIED RED SPINEL RUBY RED AAA COLOR *FLAWLESS* VERY RARE!! IF at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Red Spinel 1.28ct Fantastic Top Luster Awesome Best Sparkling Natural Gemstone | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Red Spinel 1.28ct Fantastic Top Luster Awesome Best Sparkling Natural Gemstone at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thanks for the suggestions. The first one sold before I could find out if it had fluorescence. The second one says no returns which is too bad given the price. The third one is pretty but I prefer oval or cushion.

Let me know if you come across any others. I did find this small one at ,7ct for $300.

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Hi. This is a red spinel from a vendor in Thailand that is around 2cts. It is highly fluorescent under UV. It looks a bit dark in the photos but I’m not expecting it to be neon. I have been wanting a red spinel but I’m not sure what a good one looks like other than the super duper neon Jedi spinels that I know I can’t afford. I just want a nice red. Does this look decent?

Also, it does have a little indentation near the bottom. It is from Burma.

Red spinels ste fussy for several reasons, (1) They NEVER behave for the camera. They can look significantly better or worse in person but will almost never behave in like they do on camera.
(2) Red spinels shift - a lot - from one environment to the next.
(3) ALL of the rough coming out of Burma now is packed in oil. They don’t even bother checking the quality of the rough. They do it so it’s harder to see cracks and fissures. Sometimes the stones cut nicely and appear a little included…until they dry out. I’ve actually picked up decent-looking cut stones with tweezers only to have pieces flake off.
(4) Prices are outrageous. Even dealers in the Thai gem markets are paying $1500-$2000/ct in the 1ct sizes for good (not great) quality - if you can even find it. I have been in Bangkok for the better part of 2022 and am very familiar with the gem market here. Many people who have dealt in red spinel for decades won’t touch it any more because the prices are so outrages and good quality is so scarce.

…so, I would be very skeptical about buying Red spinel from anyone in Thailand unless you know them by referral.

I also hate to rain on anyones parade, but I’ve been neck deep in the stuff for months now and have not found anything I felt was worth buying.

There is one spinel dealer I know from Burma who manages to consistently get his hands in good, clean material. He has a Shop in Silom off of Mahesak road. His family runs the shop and sells the mediocre quality stuff in the storefront. You need to know the owner by name and a personal referral to even see him - or the good stuff in his private reserves. He does sell on IG but good stones are usually sold in minutes of posting them.

He goes by “Mister Spinel” on IG. I believe him to be trustworthy but do not know him all that well,

Again, I hate to rain on anyones parade here, but good material is hard to find.

I would stick with reputable US dealers who have a generous return policies so you can see the stone in many lighting scenarios.

Yes, you’ll pay a higher price, but the truth is that decent quality red spinel is not cheap anywhere - including at the mines in Myanmar. The competition has just become increasingly intense since Myanmar opened in 2013 and Chinese buyers have been willing to pay very high prices that have driven up costs everywhere.

Please just be careful. There are many good, honest Thai gem dealers - and many crooks as well.

*Just a note on fluorescence: The truly red reds usually have just enough iron to quench the fluorescence significantly, The super fluorescent ones are usually more pinkish - especially in the sunlight.

The problem is when there is too much iron. The stone can look nice under the right conditions but can quickly go dark or take on brownish hues.

In any case. Please be careful, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have had a lot of exposure to the market and was planning to enter the trade at one point…but came to my senses and decided to stick with my day job

I’ve been involved with red spinel for over 20 years and I just don’t touch it anymore.

*oh, and one more thing about spinel. It can be super pretty, but I have scratched and broken many spinels in personal jewelry. The moh’s scale is logarithmic, so an 8 (spinel) I’d waaaaay softer than a (9) ruby/sapphire.

It’s durable enough fur jewelry, but far from indestructible. You do have to be careful with it!

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Here’s a stone on eBay that is in your price range and comes from a highly reputable dealer. It is red-pink and relatively small, but it’s clean and the seller is 100% trustworthy. One of THE most honest people I know in the trade.

0.62cts FANTASTIC EMERALD CUT AAA PINKISH RED NATURAL MYANMAR SPINEL WATCH VIDEO | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 0.62cts FANTASTIC EMERALD CUT AAA PINKISH RED NATURAL MYANMAR SPINEL WATCH VIDEO at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Nick_G]

Red spinels ste fussy for several reasons, (1) They NEVER behave for the camera. They can look significantly better or worse in person but will almost never behave in like they do on camera.
(2) Red spinels shift - a lot - from one environment to the next.
(3) ALL of the rough coming out of Burma now is packed in oil. They don’t even bother checking the quality of the rough. They do it so it’s harder to see cracks and fissures. Sometimes the stones cut nicely and appear a little included…until they dry out. I’ve actually picked up decent-looking cut stones with tweezers only to have pieces flake off.
(4) Prices are outrageous. Even dealers in the Thai gem markets are paying $1500-$2000/ct in the 1ct sizes for good (not great) quality - if you can even find it. I have been in Bangkok for the better part of 2022 and am very familiar with the gem market here. Many people who have dealt in red spinel for decades won’t touch it any more because the prices are so outrages and good quality is so scarce.

…so, I would be very skeptical about buying Red spinel from anyone in Thailand unless you know them by referral.

I also hate to rain on anyones parade, but I’ve been neck deep in the stuff for months now and have not found anything I felt was worth buying.

There is one spinel dealer I know from Burma who manages to consistently get his hands in good, clean material. He has a Shop in Silom off of Mahesak road. His family runs the shop and sells the mediocre quality stuff in the storefront. You need to know the owner by name and a personal referral to even see him - or the good stuff in his private reserves. He does sell on IG but good stones are usually sold in minutes of posting them.

He goes by “Mister Spinel” on IG. I believe him to be trustworthy but do not know him all that well,

Again, I hate to rain on anyones parade here, but good material is hard to find.

I would stick with reputable US dealers who have a generous return policies so you can see the stone in many lighting scenarios.

Yes, you’ll pay a higher price, but the truth is that decent quality red spinel is not cheap anywhere - including at the mines in Myanmar. The competition has just become increasingly intense since Myanmar opened in 2013 and Chinese buyers have been willing to pay very high prices that have driven up costs everywhere.

Please just be careful. There are many good, honest Thai gem dealers - and many crooks as well.

*Just a note on fluorescence: The truly red reds usually have just enough iron to quench the fluorescence significantly, The super fluorescent ones are usually more pinkish - especially in the sunlight.

The problem is when there is too much iron. The stone can look nice under the right conditions but can quickly go dark or take on brownish hues.

In any case. Please be careful, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have had a lot of exposure to the market and was planning to enter the trade at one point…but came to my senses and decided to stick with my day job

I’ve been involved with red spinel for over 20 years and I just don’t touch it anymore.

*oh, and one more thing about spinel. It can be super pretty, but I have scratched and broken many spinels in personal jewelry. The moh’s scale is logarithmic, so an 8 (spinel) I’d waaaaay softer than a (9) ruby/sapphire.

It’s durable enough fur jewelry, but far from indestructible. You do have to be careful with it!

Mr. Spinel occasionally has awesome spinel crystal specimens posted on IG as well. I've not used IG for maybe 3 months so I've no idea what his recent stuff has been like. I've been following him for a good while though.

As for the Moh's scale it's not logarithmic as such, although there is a big jump between 9 and 10 on the scale. It certainly isn't linear:

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Mr. Spinel occasionally has awesome spinel crystal specimens posted on IG as well. I've not used IG for maybe 3 months so I've no idea what his recent stuff has been like. I've been following him for a good while though.

As for the Moh's scale it's not logarithmic as such, although there is a big jump between 9 and 10 on the scale. It certainly isn't linear:

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Red spinels ste fussy for several reasons, (1) They NEVER behave for the camera. They can look significantly better or worse in person but will almost never behave in like they do on camera.
(2) Red spinels shift - a lot - from one environment to the next.
(3) ALL of the rough coming out of Burma now is packed in oil. They don’t even bother checking the quality of the rough. They do it so it’s harder to see cracks and fissures. Sometimes the stones cut nicely and appear a little included…until they dry out. I’ve actually picked up decent-looking cut stones with tweezers only to have pieces flake off.
(4) Prices are outrageous. Even dealers in the Thai gem markets are paying $1500-$2000/ct in the 1ct sizes for good (not great) quality - if you can even find it. I have been in Bangkok for the better part of 2022 and am very familiar with the gem market here. Many people who have dealt in red spinel for decades won’t touch it any more because the prices are so outrages and good quality is so scarce.

…so, I would be very skeptical about buying Red spinel from anyone in Thailand unless you know them by referral.

I also hate to rain on anyones parade, but I’ve been neck deep in the stuff for months now and have not found anything I felt was worth buying.

There is one spinel dealer I know from Burma who manages to consistently get his hands in good, clean material. He has a Shop in Silom off of Mahesak road. His family runs the shop and sells the mediocre quality stuff in the storefront. You need to know the owner by name and a personal referral to even see him - or the good stuff in his private reserves. He does sell on IG but good stones are usually sold in minutes of posting them.

He goes by “Mister Spinel” on IG. I believe him to be trustworthy but do not know him all that well,

Again, I hate to rain on anyones parade here, but good material is hard to find.

I would stick with reputable US dealers who have a generous return policies so you can see the stone in many lighting scenarios.

Yes, you’ll pay a higher price, but the truth is that decent quality red spinel is not cheap anywhere - including at the mines in Myanmar. The competition has just become increasingly intense since Myanmar opened in 2013 and Chinese buyers have been willing to pay very high prices that have driven up costs everywhere.

Please just be careful. There are many good, honest Thai gem dealers - and many crooks as well.

*Just a note on fluorescence: The truly red reds usually have just enough iron to quench the fluorescence significantly, The super fluorescent ones are usually more pinkish - especially in the sunlight.

The problem is when there is too much iron. The stone can look nice under the right conditions but can quickly go dark or take on brownish hues.

In any case. Please be careful, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have had a lot of exposure to the market and was planning to enter the trade at one point…but came to my senses and decided to stick with my day job

I’ve been involved with red spinel for over 20 years and I just don’t touch it anymore.

*oh, and one more thing about spinel. It can be super pretty, but I have scratched and broken many spinels in personal jewelry. The moh’s scale is logarithmic, so an 8 (spinel) I’d waaaaay softer than a (9) ruby/sapphire.

It’s durable enough fur jewelry, but far from indestructible. You do have to be careful with it!

Thank you. That’s super helpful. I have a hot pink Mahenge spinel that is fluorescent and it’s very glowy and pretty. It has inclusions but it’s eye clean to me. I was hoping for some kind of bright red stone since I have so many pink spinels of various shades already. Rubies are too complicated and expensive and it sounds like spinels are too!

Your advice is very appreciated and I will definitely take my time. I have also looked at Rubellites but they are hard to find at decent prices too, the color always looks dark to me and they are even less durable.

I will be more careful with my spinels knowing they aren’t indestructible but so many stones are even lower on the scale so I lean towards spinels or sapphires if possible.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Haydenfredgems (@haydenfred_gems) • Instagram photos and videos

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These vendors has some red/pinks in the 1ct+ range- they might have something that works?

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Here’s a stone on eBay that is in your price range and comes from a highly reputable dealer. It is red-pink and relatively small, but it’s clean and the seller is 100% trustworthy. One of THE most honest people I know in the trade.

0.62cts FANTASTIC EMERALD CUT AAA PINKISH RED NATURAL MYANMAR SPINEL WATCH VIDEO | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 0.62cts FANTASTIC EMERALD CUT AAA PINKISH RED NATURAL MYANMAR SPINEL WATCH VIDEO at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I just stopped by Manit’s office and checked out that spinel. Really nice. Beautiful cutting. Super clean. Very red. He describes it as pinkish red but I really couldn’t see the pink. It’s just not super saturated. Impressive stone overall IMO. I was tempted to buy it for a moment. Didn’t have a UV light, so I couldn’t check fluorescence…but if it is there I suspect it is not strong. Just an FYI

I took some photos & video in the office. As I mentioned before, red spinel just don’t behave for the camera.

Here’s one photo but the actual appearance is FAR better.

 

[Double E]

Red spinels ste fussy for several reasons, (1) They NEVER behave for the camera. They can look significantly better or worse in person but will almost never behave in like they do on camera.
(2) Red spinels shift - a lot - from one environment to the next.
(3) ALL of the rough coming out of Burma now is packed in oil. They don’t even bother checking the quality of the rough. They do it so it’s harder to see cracks and fissures. Sometimes the stones cut nicely and appear a little included…until they dry out. I’ve actually picked up decent-looking cut stones with tweezers only to have pieces flake off.
(4) Prices are outrageous. Even dealers in the Thai gem markets are paying $1500-$2000/ct in the 1ct sizes for good (not great) quality - if you can even find it. I have been in Bangkok for the better part of 2022 and am very familiar with the gem market here. Many people who have dealt in red spinel for decades won’t touch it any more because the prices are so outrages and good quality is so scarce.

…so, I would be very skeptical about buying Red spinel from anyone in Thailand unless you know them by referral.

I also hate to rain on anyones parade, but I’ve been neck deep in the stuff for months now and have not found anything I felt was worth buying.

There is one spinel dealer I know from Burma who manages to consistently get his hands in good, clean material. He has a Shop in Silom off of Mahesak road. His family runs the shop and sells the mediocre quality stuff in the storefront. You need to know the owner by name and a personal referral to even see him - or the good stuff in his private reserves. He does sell on IG but good stones are usually sold in minutes of posting them.

He goes by “Mister Spinel” on IG. I believe him to be trustworthy but do not know him all that well,

Again, I hate to rain on anyones parade here, but good material is hard to find.

I would stick with reputable US dealers who have a generous return policies so you can see the stone in many lighting scenarios.

Yes, you’ll pay a higher price, but the truth is that decent quality red spinel is not cheap anywhere - including at the mines in Myanmar. The competition has just become increasingly intense since Myanmar opened in 2013 and Chinese buyers have been willing to pay very high prices that have driven up costs everywhere.

Please just be careful. There are many good, honest Thai gem dealers - and many crooks as well.

*Just a note on fluorescence: The truly red reds usually have just enough iron to quench the fluorescence significantly, The super fluorescent ones are usually more pinkish - especially in the sunlight.

The problem is when there is too much iron. The stone can look nice under the right conditions but can quickly go dark or take on brownish hues.

In any case. Please be careful, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have had a lot of exposure to the market and was planning to enter the trade at one point…but came to my senses and decided to stick with my day job

I’ve been involved with red spinel for over 20 years and I just don’t touch it anymore.

*oh, and one more thing about spinel. It can be super pretty, but I have scratched and broken many spinels in personal jewelry. The moh’s scale is logarithmic, so an 8 (spinel) I’d waaaaay softer than a (9) ruby/sapphire.

It’s durable enough fur jewelry, but far from indestructible. You do have to be careful with it!

Thank you very much for your insight. Your sharing is important to people here who loves stones^^ And it's very kind of you to share your knowledge with us~

To me red / pink spinel, especially the fine ones, is not that much simpler than ruby, although I do prefer them to rubies. Considering the ever rising prices, sounds like we've got smaller and smaller chance to get one

 

[Dr_Diesel]

I just stopped by Manit’s office and checked out that spinel. Really nice. Beautiful cutting. Super clean. Very red. He describes it as pinkish red but I really couldn’t see the pink. It’s just not super saturated. Impressive stone overall IMO. I was tempted to buy it for a moment. Didn’t have a UV light, so I couldn’t check fluorescence…but if it is there I suspect it is not strong. Just an FYI

I took some photos & video in the office. As I mentioned before, red spinel just don’t behave for the camera.

Here’s one photo but the actual appearance is FAR better.

Just checked the eBay listing. The posted video is much more accurate than my photos

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Thank you very much for your insight. Your sharing is important to people here who loves stones^^ And it's very kind of you to share your knowledge with us~

To me red / pink spinel, especially the fine ones, is not that much simpler than ruby, although I do prefer them to rubies. Considering the ever rising prices, sounds like we've got smaller and smaller chance to get one

I’m happy to share. TBH, sometimes I feel a little guilty though. I just wish I could share a more optimistic picture. It’s an unfortunately a tough market these days.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Red spinels ste fussy for several reasons, (1) They NEVER behave for the camera. They can look significantly better or worse in person but will almost never behave in like they do on camera.
(2) Red spinels shift - a lot - from one environment to the next.
(3) ALL of the rough coming out of Burma now is packed in oil. They don’t even bother checking the quality of the rough. They do it so it’s harder to see cracks and fissures. Sometimes the stones cut nicely and appear a little included…until they dry out. I’ve actually picked up decent-looking cut stones with tweezers only to have pieces flake off.
(4) Prices are outrageous. Even dealers in the Thai gem markets are paying $1500-$2000/ct in the 1ct sizes for good (not great) quality - if you can even find it. I have been in Bangkok for the better part of 2022 and am very familiar with the gem market here. Many people who have dealt in red spinel for decades won’t touch it any more because the prices are so outrages and good quality is so scarce.

…so, I would be very skeptical about buying Red spinel from anyone in Thailand unless you know them by referral.

I also hate to rain on anyones parade, but I’ve been neck deep in the stuff for months now and have not found anything I felt was worth buying.

There is one spinel dealer I know from Burma who manages to consistently get his hands in good, clean material. He has a Shop in Silom off of Mahesak road. His family runs the shop and sells the mediocre quality stuff in the storefront. You need to know the owner by name and a personal referral to even see him - or the good stuff in his private reserves. He does sell on IG but good stones are usually sold in minutes of posting them.

He goes by “Mister Spinel” on IG. I believe him to be trustworthy but do not know him all that well,

Again, I hate to rain on anyones parade here, but good material is hard to find.

I would stick with reputable US dealers who have a generous return policies so you can see the stone in many lighting scenarios.

Yes, you’ll pay a higher price, but the truth is that decent quality red spinel is not cheap anywhere - including at the mines in Myanmar. The competition has just become increasingly intense since Myanmar opened in 2013 and Chinese buyers have been willing to pay very high prices that have driven up costs everywhere.

Please just be careful. There are many good, honest Thai gem dealers - and many crooks as well.

*Just a note on fluorescence: The truly red reds usually have just enough iron to quench the fluorescence significantly, The super fluorescent ones are usually more pinkish - especially in the sunlight.

The problem is when there is too much iron. The stone can look nice under the right conditions but can quickly go dark or take on brownish hues.

In any case. Please be careful, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have had a lot of exposure to the market and was planning to enter the trade at one point…but came to my senses and decided to stick with my day job

I’ve been involved with red spinel for over 20 years and I just don’t touch it anymore.

*oh, and one more thing about spinel. It can be super pretty, but I have scratched and broken many spinels in personal jewelry. The moh’s scale is logarithmic, so an 8 (spinel) I’d waaaaay softer than a (9) ruby/sapphire.

It’s durable enough fur jewelry, but far from indestructible. You do have to be careful with it!

I found this one but it has a cut issue I think. I’m wondering if it can be tweaked. There’s a black stripe in the middle like a bow tie. It’s fluorescent with UV.

The color looks nice. What do you think?

I’m wondering what @fredflintstone thinks about the cut and if it can be tweaked.

 

[Dr_Diesel]

I found this one but it has a cut issue I think. I’m wondering if it can be tweaked. There’s a black stripe in the middle like a bow tie. It’s fluorescent with UV.

The color looks nice. What do you think?

I’m wondering what @fredflintstone thinks about the cut and if it can be tweaked.

If the stone is as good as it looks, don’t recut.. It’s not uncommon for people to wind up unhappy with the results. Recutting colored stones is a complicated endeavor - and you can never go back. I’ve learned my lesson the hard way too many times and just won’t do it again. Ever.

With expensive material, it’s best to either embrace the stone as it is or move on. IMO, the cutting seems very effective here.

I must say however, if the tone really is that open, there might be darker areas but not black. Something is odd. This kind of “mixed cut” (brilliant crown and stepped pavilion) - particularly with such a deep pavilion - should not have extinction going right down the middle.

It’s hard to say what is going on there.

Have you seen videos? That extinction may only show up at a certain angle or may simply be an artifact of the camera being so close to the stone (obstruction).

A word of caution: There photos have clearly been color-corrected. A lot. Look at how red the fingers are. The saturation has been cranked waaaay up and the red hues enhanced.

Digital cameras often have trouble accurately representing red stones (particularly spinel), so this *may* be an honest attempt to accurately represent the stone. It could however also be an attempt to make it look more saturated than it is.

Hand-shots at a distance may give you a better feel for the stone and are harder to manipulate.

Ask the vendor what secondary hues are present, particularly in bad (fluorescent) lighting. Don’t accept the response of “none.” ALL red spinel will lean a little towards pink, purple, orange or brown, even if it is very subtle.

I would definitely request videos & hand-shots in “bad” fluorescent lighting as well. That will bring out any potentially unpleasant hues. Also ask if the stone was oiled.

Overall, the photos make it *look* like a killer red spinel. Just make sure the vendor has a valid return policy.

…I am just a bit wary of the photos.

May I ask who the vendor is?

 

[CaseyLouLou]

If the stone is as good as it looks, don’t recut.. It’s not uncommon for people to wind up unhappy with the results. Recutting colored stones is a complicated endeavor - and you can never go back. I’ve learned my lesson the hard way too many times and just won’t do it again. Ever.

With expensive material, it’s best to either embrace the stone as it is or move on. IMO, the cutting seems very effective here.

I must say however, if the tone really is that open, there might be darker areas but not black. Something is odd. This kind of “mixed cut” (brilliant crown and stepped pavilion) - particularly with such a deep pavilion - should not have extinction going right down the middle.

It’s hard to say what is going on there.

Have you seen videos? That extinction may only show up at a certain angle or may simply be an artifact of the camera being so close to the stone (obstruction).

A word of caution: There photos have clearly been color-corrected. A lot. Look at how red the fingers are. The saturation has been cranked waaaay up and the red hues enhanced.

Digital cameras often have trouble accurately representing red stones (particularly spinel), so this *may* be an honest attempt to accurately represent the stone. It could however also be an attempt to make it look more saturated than it is.

Hand-shots at a distance may give you a better feel for the stone and are harder to manipulate.

Ask the vendor what secondary hues are present, particularly in bad (fluorescent) lighting. Don’t accept the response of “none.” ALL red spinel will lean a little towards pink, purple, orange or brown, even if it is very subtle.

I would definitely request videos & hand-shots in “bad” fluorescent lighting as well. That will bring out any potentially unpleasant hues. Also ask if the stone was oiled.

Overall, the photos make it *look* like a killer red spinel. Just make sure the vendor has a valid return policy.

…I am just a bit wary of the photos.

May I ask who the vendor is?

Thanks for the input. The black stripe across the middle is apparent in all of the videos. I was hoping it was just a particular angle but it doesn’t really go away. There must be some angle or ratio that is off.

I’m going to pass on this one but it’s hard!

The photos are snapshots from videos and I zoomed in to post here. I think secondary hues are orange but very close to red and I was told no brown but some black because it’s not neon or Jedi.

Good question about oiling. Is this common for Vietnam?

 

[Dr_Diesel]

I found this one but it has a cut issue I think. I’m wondering if it can be tweaked. There’s a black stripe in the middle like a bow tie. It’s fluorescent with UV.

The color looks nice. What do you think?

I’m wondering what @fredflintstone thinks about the cut and if it can be tweaked.

Thanks for the input. The black stripe across the middle is apparent in all of the videos. I was hoping it was just a particular angle but it doesn’t really go away. There must be some angle or ratio that is off.

I’m going to pass on this one but it’s hard!

The photos are snapshots from videos and I zoomed in to post here. I think secondary hues are orange but very close to red and I was told no brown but some black because it’s not neon or Jedi.

Good question about oiling. Is this common for Vietnam?

Not sure about Vietnam. I just know all the Burmese rough is arriving in packages full of oil. I wish I would have taken a photo of it.

And yeah, it looks a little orange to me as well.

BTW, did you see this post? She notes the IG vendor and seems to have gotten a great deal.

Post in thread 'Thoughts about this red spinel?'
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-about-this-red-spinel.275110/post-5169544

 

[fredflintstone]

I found this one but it has a cut issue I think. I’m wondering if it can be tweaked. There’s a black stripe in the middle like a bow tie. It’s fluorescent with UV.

The color looks nice. What do you think?

I’m wondering what @fredflintstone thinks about the cut and if it can be tweaked.

Little late here.

As Dr, Diesel wrote, I would not recut it. I have had bad experience with that too, but most of those stones were shallow cut to begin with, so this might not be the case here as the lapidary has a lot more stone to work with which greatly helps. Had much better luck having deep stones recut.


The dark areas on the middle if the stone's table are extinction, but again like Dr. Diesel had mentioned it might only be the angle or it can also be the lighting. Many stones show more extinction in some light than others. Especially in sunlight. Looks like these pictures were taken in sunlight. Probably shaded sunlight, but a good red Spinel is one of the few stones that won't close up in direct sunlight because of fluorescence. Also, finger pictures often have dark areas where the skin of the fingers are touching the stone and black camera reflection does not help. Another thing is the camera blocks the light. Put a camera between the stone and your eyes and there is a shadow cast on the stone from the camera. So, a stone will always look brighter with no obstruction by any object in between.

I really don't think the stones has been pictures have been tampered with much. The fingers don't look to red to me. Some people have very pink fingers. But it was probably adjusted a little bit to try to capture the color as best they could.

As mentioned, I would ask for a video. One outside and one under artificial light.

If the price is right, you may have a very nice Spinel.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Little late here.

As Dr, Diesel wrote, I would not recut it. I have had bad experience with that too, but most of those stones were shallow cut to begin with, so this might not be the case here as the lapidary has a lot more stone to work with which greatly helps. Had much better luck having deep stones recut.


The dark areas on the middle if the stone's table are extinction, but again like Dr. Diesel had mentioned it might only be the angle or it can also be the lighting. Many stones show more extinction in some light than others. Especially in sunlight. Looks like these pictures were taken in sunlight. Probably shaded sunlight, but a good red Spinel is one of the few stones that won't close up in direct sunlight because of fluorescence. Also, finger pictures often have dark areas where the skin of the fingers are touching the stone and black camera reflection does not help. Another thing is the camera blocks the light. Put a camera between the stone and your eyes and there is a shadow cast on the stone from the camera. So, a stone will always look brighter with no obstruction by any object in between.

I really don't think the stones has been pictures have been tampered with much. The fingers don't look to red to me. Some people have very pink fingers. But it was probably adjusted a little bit to try to capture the color as best they could.

As mentioned, I would ask for a video. One outside and one under artificial light.

If the price is right, you may have a very nice Spinel.

Thanks! Unfortunately, in the videos I have, the dark stripe in the middle doesn’t go away no matter how the stone is turned. It looks like a bow tie effect. If it wasn’t for that I would buy it but I think that will bug me.

What cutting issue causes a bow tie? Is it the pavilion angles or the length width ratio or both?

 

[fredflintstone]

Thanks! Unfortunately, in the videos I have, the dark stripe in the middle doesn’t go away no matter how the stone is turned. It looks like a bow tie effect. If it wasn’t for that I would buy it but I think that will bug me.

What cutting issue causes a bow tie? Is it the pavilion angles or the length width ratio or both?

A bow tie really does not cause extinction. I really don't see a bow tie in the pictures. A bow tie is basically caused by the stone's cutting being stretched out and not proportioned right in depth vs. length and runs lengthwise nor widthwise, but someone like Gene could explain it much better and more accurate. Ovals are more prone to bow ties.

An overly deep stone cut at steep angle can cause extinction, though the are some deeply cut stones that don't exhibit it as their angles are not as steep..

Again, Gene would be the person to ask this as I am not a lapidary.