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Need Opinions on Diamond Before Purchase

BrokeBoyfriend

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
8
Hello PriceScopers,

I've been doing tons of research on diamonds and pricescope has definitely been a great resource.

My budget is about $22,000 and nothing over that. There's a diamond I have my eye on at my local jewelers and their asking price is $19,300. They provided me with the hearts and arrow scope and I took a few pictures, which didn't come out so great but hopefully it can help a bit.

I would really appreciate your expert opinion on this diamond before I decide to purchase it.

Here's the specs:
GIA Certificate Issue Date: August 2015
Weight: 1.53
Color: F
Clarity: VVS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

HCA: 0.6
Depth: 60.9%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 34
Pavilion Angle: 40.6
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet: None

screen_shot_2016-10-02_at_11.png

screen_shot_2016-10-02_at_0.png

screen_shot_2016-10-02_at_2.png

screen_shot_2016-10-02_at_3.png
 

DelsFan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
51
Not an expert opinion:
The GIA certified diamond you are looking at has an HCA of 0.6; it seems there is a wide variation (from Ideal to "Super-Ideal) within the GIA 3-EX certification, and people here suggest any of these diamonds with an HCA greater than 2 might be culled. At the least, yours seems to at least be in the "could be a keeper" category.

You can look at the TOP quality diamonds from vendors here on PriceScope just to see if your jeweler is in the right ballpark:
Whiteflash (I did look, they have a 1.568 A CUT ABOVE F VS2 AGS0 diamond for just over $18K with PriceScope Discount, and one at 1.762 similarly graded for right at $22K (after discount).
You could also look at
Brian Gavin
I-D Jewelry
Good Old Gold
Brilliantly Engaged
High Performance Diamonds
or any of the other people who sponsor this forum.

Who's to say how "great" the diamond is that you are looking at; it seems this diamond could be something people here would purchase for themselves. With an HCA of 0,6, I'd say the question is: is it a 95% diamond or a 99% diamond. If it's the latter, then I'd say it's reasonably priced.


Other Opinions?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,646
It does have the right numbers. Not an H&A but you didnt say it was being sold as an H&A. Is there any reason you are so high
on the clarity spec? You should be able to go all the way down to VS2 without seeing anything in the stone without a loupe.
You would have to check the pavilion view to make sure you cant see anything.

For that kind of money you can buy a super Ideal cut stone like a Whiteflash A Cut Above H&A. You would have to drop the high
clarity but you still wont see anything in the stone without a loupe. $18262
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3710263.htm
 

BrokeBoyfriend

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
8
They marketed their diamonds as H&A if the GIA reports gave it a 3X score and gave me the scope to see the "H&A". After looking at the H&A images in depth, I'm beginning to reject that diamond. Would you reject a diamond based on those images?

The clarity is that high because my girlfriend wants at least a VVS2 (I'm not familiar with cultural requirements but we're both Asian).

I've been searching for super ideal cuts that are at least vvs2 but the ones I found aren't GIA certified but AGS certified.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3735097.htm

Here's one from JA that's not rated as super ideal but does fall into the specs.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1959273
 

istase2000

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
328
If she has to have VVS2, I'd go for the whiteflash one you posted. AGS is just as strict with grading as GIA.
 

BrokeBoyfriend

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
8
How do you receive the PS discount with Whiteflash?

I'm really leaning towards the one from Whiteflash.
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,856
I'm not sure there is a PS discount, I certainly didn't get one on my recent purchaseI think you can get $100 off a first order and you save a bit paying by wire too.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,646

BrokeBoyfriend

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
8
I currently have the 1.495 ACA diamond on reserve. I sent the link to my local jeweler to get her opinion. Her response was that "AGS is not reputable and you will not be able to sell it back to other stores. Also, AGS will not include more inclusions like GIA does. GIA has the best trade and resell value. If you later decide to sell it, you'll lose more than 40% from your cost." This is coming from a person that does not know what an ASET image is so I'm not really buying her statements. If worst comes to worst, what is my actual lost be if I were to resell it? I know WF has a 1 year buy back at 70%, but I wonder how much it would be after 1 year.

I've also read that AGS is a bit more relax on color grades (somewhere on this forum). Is this true? Should I be worried about this?
 

Sagefemme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
291
AGS is very reputable, and has strict grading standards. It's just not so huge and a household word, like GIA is. Around these parts, AGS and GIA are considered the most reputable, and there does seem to be a tendency (I think) for the super ideal stone purveyors to use AGS a bit more than GIA. Some stones are double certed, AGS and GIA. No, the two labs are not going to grade every stone the same. Some of the parameters are somewhat subjective (color) and judgement calls (clarity, sometimes). I wonder if your jeweler has AGS confused with one of the admittedly dodgy labs out there?

Remember Whiteflash has a 100% trade up benefit, which is very valuable. If you ever want to go bigger, or whiter, or more-anything-that-costs-more-than-the-original, you can put the purchase price toward the new stone. Bricks and mortar stores almost never offer that.

Also A Cut Above stones are a stricter subset of AGS Ideal stones. It's one of the best ways not to have to agonize over ASETs and clarity plots--Whiteflash has done it for you.
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
BrokeBoyfriend|1475715218|4084021 said:
I currently have the 1.495 ACA diamond on reserve. I sent the link to my local jeweler to get her opinion. Her response was that "AGS is not reputable and you will not be able to sell it back to other stores. Also, AGS will not include more inclusions like GIA does. GIA has the best trade and resell value. If you later decide to sell it, you'll lose more than 40% from your cost." This is coming from a person that does not know what an ASET image is so I'm not really buying her statements. If worst comes to worst, what is my actual lost be if I were to resell it? I know WF has a 1 year buy back at 70%, but I wonder how much it would be after 1 year.

I've also read that AGS is a bit more relax on color grades (somewhere on this forum). Is this true? Should I be worried about this?
Her claims:
1. AGS is not reputable and you will not be able to sell it back to other stores.
FALSE. GIA is the worlds foremost authority on gems, and AGS is the foremost authority in cut. Both are viewed as the only 2 true reliable labs that are 100% legit. Still doesn't mean they are 100% perfect, but they are the best, by far. AGS and GIA are the only certificates that will hold their value the best. You will lose a ton on resale, but if you don't have a GIA/AGS certificate, you will lose even more. They are both viewed as the best with respect to color. A jeweler would 100% know this. Lie #1

2. Also, AGS will not include more inclusions like GIA does
FALSE. AGS and GIA are the only truly reputable labs and the foremost authorities. They both give clarity grades and plots and are by far the most accurate. A jeweler would 100% know this with no ambiguity. Lie #2

3. If you decide to sell your stone, you will lose a ton, regardless of how it is certified. However, if it is AGS or GIA certified, you will do better on resale. Super ideal stones lose even more on resale because dealers wont pay the super ideal premium you paid. If you buy ACA then on resale you will get nailed. But that is the nature of the beast.

Your jeweler is trying to make a sale and wants you to buy from them. Don't trust used car salesman, real estate agents, and anyone working on commission. There are exceptions to this rule, but those are the exceptions. Of the 4-5 local jewelers I have went to, all of them misled me, tried to take advantage of me, or downright lied to me. I just let them say what they want. I'm not going to get into an argument in their store.

4. Dump that jeweler. That person is trying to take advantage of you. Brick and mortar stores will try to take advantage of you 99.9999999% of the time. The saying is "buy for what you have to, and sell for what you can". Try to stay away from contacting local brick and mortar stores to ask them about someone else's stone because they will talk it down because they want to make a sale. An unethical someone selling a diamond will dump on any diamond that isn't theirs because they want to sell you theirs. They will dump on your diamond if you buy it somewhere else and bring it to their store as well (because they want you to return your diamond and buy theirs!). Same principle when you are trying to resell a diamond...people will dump on your stone (and even outright lie) to try to convince you it is worth 1000$ when you paid 50,000$ for it and is now worth lets say 15000$ in a secondary market. Maybe not to that extreme, but from what I've seen, I'm glad I know pricing, because some dealers are very persistent and many can get outright misled. If you find an honest, local brick and mortar cherish that person/company forever. Of the 4-5 I've dealt with locally where I live, they were all outright liars/intentionally misleading people who don't know better. People one here are good because even though some are in the industry, people on this forum give unbiased advice without trying to sell you something.

5. Educate yourself. Learn some more, and don't rely on a local brick and mortar store for unbiased information. If you find a stone, don't rely on another vendor to give you information on the stone. In many cases they will tell you anything to get you to 1. not buy from a different store 2. get you to return what you bought from another store and 3. to buy from them. Think about it: how much does your local brick and mortar make from you buying from whiteflash? Nothing.
 

DelsFan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
51
This is coming from a person that does not know what an ASET image is so I'm not really buying her statements.
I had this same exact experience, when talking to a girl in the highest end store in the area, out of eight or ten stores. :wall:


As for resale, just my thought about AGS certified diamonds:

a) you'll 99% likely never sell your diamond, and if you buy from a vendor who sponsors this forum, like Whiteflash, they will give you good or 100% trade-in value

b) I can see where a dealer may not pay the price premium for your A Cut Above (or similar) loose stone

c) Speaking only for myself, if I were buying a loose diamond from another individual:
- If the diamond had an AGS OR GIA certificate and was also "A Cut Above" or similar super-ideal cut (so, by definition either AGS0 or GIA triple-EX, plus the original jeweler staking part of their reputation on the diamond), I would be serious about buying it if the price were reasonable.
- If it was an AGS0 diamond with no other designation (including no ASET) the price would have to be right, but this "should" be an OK diamond (great for some, OK for really particular people), again, at a discounted price.
- If it was a GIA triple-EX diamond I would be almost not at all interested, since there is a very broad range (from unacceptable to really nice) of quality in this one classification of GIA diamond.

I think non-AGS jewelers have to dog AGS because they know AGS is stricter and their GIA and EGL diamonds aren't what you're looking for - their only hope is to dazzle you with the best they have and hope you don't really know the difference.

There are usually two types of (brick and mortar) jewelers:
- the ones who, when you ask about super-ideal cut, ASET, or Hearts and Arrows, just give you the corporate line they learned in training: like, "All our diamonds are purchased by our one buyer who is a trained gemologist and has been buying for us for 20 years", or, "Yes, some of our diamonds have GIA or EGL certificates." Last one I visited said, "We don't have Hearts on Fire diamonds, but we do have a some ForeverMark stones." (Forevermark diamonds must be L Color or higher, and Very Good Cut or better - blech!, they cost a lot more than "A Cut Above" diamonds which actually are superior...)
- rarely you run across the jeweler who says to himself, "Hmmm, here is a person who is particular and is willing to part with extra cash to get what he/she wants - and I CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE IT;" and says to you, "We have several ideal cut diamonds here in the store, some are AGS0 and some are GIA triple EX certified, and some have additional images with the certifications - are you familiar with ASET? And we can get in other super-ideal cut diamonds for you in your size and color range if necessary. Is that the quality of diamond you are looking for?"

Run from the first jeweler.
Get pricing from the second one and see if he is within a few % of what you can by a similar ring with "Signature" diamonds for from one of the sponsors of this site. It is worth something to deal with a local honest guy who is trying to make a living. I wouldn't waste his time and then buy on-line to save $200 on a $10,000 purchase after he gave me sensible and truthful help. If the local guy is 20% more, which can happen, then don't waste his time any more - go ahead start a dialog with one of this site's reputable sponsors.
 

BrokeBoyfriend

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
8
Thanks for all your responses. I have been reading tons on AGS and Super Ideal diamonds. Originally, I was looking for cushion cuts, then found out that without an ASET image, you'll just be buying blind. Then found out GOG has Cushion Cuts that are H&R, but unfortunately their selection didnt fit my requirements.

But finally, I found WF and it had the majority of the specs I was looking for. Was hoping to find a 1.5 F VVS1 but they don't have that currently. But on the bright side, it leaves me room for an upgrade.

I pulled the trigger with WF on the 1.495c. ACA and it's coming tomorrow morning! :D :dance:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3735098.htm

Going to then have it set that the same jewelers, only because the setting was purchase from there.

As for the service with WF, Sheerah went above and beyond to accommodate my requests. She even upgraded my shipping to Priority Overnight so I can have it before 10:30am free of charge.
 

hathalove

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
1,686
Excellent stone! I am sure it will be stunning. Did you say you already purchased the setting? Who did you choose to make the setting would love to see some pics!
 

DelsFan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
51
BrokeBoyfriend|1475801571|4084323 said:
Thanks for all your responses. I have been reading tons on AGS and Super Ideal diamonds. Originally, I was looking for cushion cuts, then found out that without an ASET image, you'll just be buying blind. Then found out GOG has Cushion Cuts that are H&R, but unfortunately their selection didnt fit my requirements.

But finally, I found WF and it had the majority of the specs I was looking for. Was hoping to find a 1.5 F VVS1 but they don't have that currently. But on the bright side, it leaves me room for an upgrade.

I pulled the trigger with WF on the 1.495c. ACA and it's coming tomorrow morning! :D :dance:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3735098.htm

Going to then have it set that the same jewelers, only because the setting was purchase from there.

As for the service with WF, Sheerah went above and beyond to accommodate my requests. She even upgraded my shipping to Priority Overnight so I can have it before 10:30am free of charge.
You made the right call.

Let us know what you think of the diamond - I'd expect it a) to be better than anything you've seen (ever); b) will never need upgrading, unless you just want something larger. My thought with A CUT ABOVE diamonds, or the (real) signature diamonds from other vendors here, is you know you are getting a great diamond, it's just whether it is a 99.75% or 99.85% diamond. Either should suffice, oui?

Your diamond will have more fire/sparkle than you'd believe; but what is really fun is taking it in a semi-dark room (like a movie theatre before the show starts) and notice that is still reflects that little bit of light which is available. The fire will be diminished because the lights are low, but other diamonds will just sit there and do nothing, while yours is still "working" away...

Quoting myself:
- rarely you run across the jeweler who says to himself, "Hmmm, here is a person who is particular and is willing to part with extra cash to get what he/she wants - and I CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE IT;" and says to you, "We have several ideal cut diamonds here in the store, some are AGS0 and some are GIA triple EX certified, and some have additional images with the certifications - are you familiar with ASET? And we can get in other super-ideal cut diamonds for you in your size and color range if necessary. Is that the quality of diamond you are looking for?"
I mis-spoke. I should have started with, "Why can't one find a brick and mortar jeweler who says to himself...

Upon further reflection, I can't recall ever being in any high (or, obviously, low) end jewelry store and finding anyone who would admit to knowing anything about a super-ideal cut diamond. I've never been offered to view a GIA 3-EX diamond, let alone an AGS0... I can recall being told, essentially, what they have is good enough and I'd not be able to tell the difference with a better diamond; I would just pay more money. Finally, I've never seen a "signature" diamond in any B&M store that was any better than a GIA-Very Good. [And, if memory serves, they were trying to sell me their "best" GIA - Very Good diamond for the same price as I could get a superior AGS0 from a PriceScope sponsoring jeweler, here.]
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,646
You have picked a gorgeous stone. If you ever do want to sell, come to PS first. You always lose money when selling stones but
since you bought an AGS000 ACA you will lose less. Please post pictures when you have it set.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,646
Beautiful!!! I really like the setting you picked too...good luck with your proposal and congratulations!!!
 
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