Need opinion on vintage engagement ring

[mandasand]

Hi PSers,
One of my mom's best friends has offered my SO and I to buy her grandmother's diamond engagement ring. She doesn't have any daughters or grandchildren to pass it down to. As you know, we have been looking at getting an August Vintage cushion and setting it in a replica art deco setting. The reason for this is because my SO didn't want to buy a true antique ring because he didn't know the history. For this ring, we know the history and it is a family heirloom.

The ring is from the 1950s (maybe earlier). I believe the center is a modern brilliant. The diamond has not been graded, but has been appraised by a local antique jeweler. Here are the specs:
.95 ct, VS1, H/I color, excellent cut mounted in platinum band with 4 small diamonds
Appraised at $6,150 and consignment value $4,000

It is completely eye clean to me and really sparkly. I would say that the color is an I/J. It is in excellent condition.

That being said, is this a modern cut diamond? Do you think this is something I should consider? She really wants me to have this ring and if we decide to go for it I would want to make her an offer. She said no way she would want me to pay $4k. It's an open question at this point what we should pay. Opinions please!

 

[ecf8503]

I'd guess late transitional / early modern RB (looks to have a pretty small table, but splintery "arrows"), but definitely no "modern" symmetry there. I could be full of it, but it looks dark under the table to me in those pics...

 

[junebug17]

It looks like a modern round brilliant to me. I think you should go with this ring only if you love it! I don't think you should feel obligated to have it as your ering just to make others happy.

 

[Gypsy]

I wouldn't buy it. Even for $1600 (and that's about the maximum of what I'd pay for it). It's not an old cut. It's a modern round brilliant, with no certification, and that setting is worth about 450. Maximum I could advise anyone to pay for it is 2000 and that's if they really love it.

 

[armywife13]

I personally wouldn't purchase it. The setting doesn't thrill me and either does the center stone. The center does appear to be a MRB-but as others have mentioned, there is darkness under the table.

 

[mandasand]

I think it could the lighting in my office where I took the picture. It doesn't look dark under the table in real life. I think it's very beautiful and it's really sweet that she wants me to have it. I've always wanted a vintage ring. So I have to think about it.

A few numbers were thrown out - $1600...$2000...I just want to get a good idea of what you think we should offer, in case we go that route. I get the feeling like the opinion is "don't buy," but I want to hear more opinions!

I will try and take some better pictures tomorrow.

 

[bgray]

I think it could the lighting in my office where I took the picture. It doesn't look dark under the table in real life. I think it's very beautiful and it's really sweet that she wants me to have it. I've always wanted a vintage ring. So I have to think about it.

A few numbers were thrown out - $1600...$2000...I just want to get a good idea of what you think we should offer, in case we go that route. I get the feeling like the opinion is "don't buy," but I want to hear more opinions!

I will try and take some better pictures tomorrow.

the stone doesnt look that great. --she doesnt want you to have it--she wants you to buy it...

 

[Gypsy]

I think it could the lighting in my office where I took the picture. It doesn't look dark under the table in real life. I think it's very beautiful and it's really sweet that she wants me to have it. I've always wanted a vintage ring. So I have to think about it.

A few numbers were thrown out - $1600...$2000...I just want to get a good idea of what you think we should offer, in case we go that route. I get the feeling like the opinion is "don't buy," but I want to hear more opinions!

I will try and take some better pictures tomorrow.

the stone doesnt look that great. --she doesnt want you to have it--she wants you to buy it...

This.

You want someone to say don't buy it. I will say it.

 

[slksapphire]

i think you really have to come to a decision on 2 things:

1. do YOU like the ring? forget all other considerations, i.e., it's your mom's best friend's ring, etc.

2. IF you do, then how much should you pay for it? i think this is an easier question. since it's your mom's friend's ring, i would ask her if i could have the diamond graded. i would have a jeweler remove the stone from the setting and then send it to GIA. of course, you would need to get the stone re-set into the original setting.

once you know exactly what you have, you can figure out what a fair price is. pricescopers could be very helpful here!

 

[mandasand]

i think you really have to come to a decision on 2 things:

1. do YOU like the ring? forget all other considerations, i.e., it's your mom's best friend's ring, etc.

2. IF you do, then how much should you pay for it? i think this is an easier question. since it's your mom's friend's ring, i would ask her if i could have the diamond graded. i would have a jeweler remove the stone from the setting and then send it to GIA. of course, you would need to get the stone re-set into the original setting.

once you know exactly what you have, you can figure out what a fair price is. pricescopers could be very helpful here!

Thanks everyone!

1. Do I like the ring: Yes, I think it's lovely. I like faceting that is chunkier, especially in a vintage style...but this one is not chunky. So, I feel kind of stupid because chunky is what I've been asking for and now I'm getting all swoony over this shiny thing. My boyfriend asked me if I love it because of the way it looks or because it's shiny. I really wanted a true vintage/antique ring, but I want everything else too...chunky facets, excellent cut, not a diamond that is too warm, etc. etc. I'm not getting a vintage ring unless my boyfriend knows the exact story behind it. He doesn't like "used" stuff. And this is not something I will be able to upgrade unless I pay for it myself. So, in my mind I'm thinking this is the only opportunity I have to get a vintage ring. So, I'm attracted to that part. The ring is also a style I like. It's simple with a little bling.

2. I probably would not ask her to send it to GIA. If I was dealing with a jeweler then I would ask for that. But, this is my mom's friend and it is a vintage ring. If I want it certified I would do it myself. However, I would have it independently appraised before I would consider making her an offer. I also think the setting would need some rehab because the shank is very thin at the bottom and the prongs are uneven.

She has a sentimental attachment to the ring because it was her grandmother's....an anniversary gift from grandpa. But, I have no sentimental attachment to it at all.

All this being said...I don't want to buy this ring for $4k and I am not sure she will take much less after talking to my mom again. Therefore, it's probably something I will not pursue.

 

[chrono]

The faceting doesn't look like an old style cut, but a not so good modern cut.

1. How many well cut modern diamonds have you seen in person? How many chunky old cut diamonds you have seen in person? If not many, it is easy to fall in love with the first (or second or third) shiny stone you see. More so in your mind when you know it's from family.

2. How do you know how much to offer her if you don't know the grading and stats for sure? I've read too many stories of friends this, family friend that, and etc and they ended up overpaying for poor quality diamonds.

Just food for thought as you continue shopping for your right stone.

 

[VRBeauty]

It looks like you can buy a .5 carat august vintage round for less than $2000...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9068/...

just a thought.

 

[motownmama]

This could become a sticky situation. I think I'd have her write what she wants for it and stick it in an envelope and you do the same. Have your mom open them and if it's w/i $500 split the difference - otherwise pass.

 

[ariel144]

Compared to an AVC...it would be a definite N O! You want to wear what you LUV. I would pass.

 

[mandasand]

It looks like you can buy a .5 carat august vintage round for less than $2000...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9068/...

just a thought.

Our budget is actually $5k for a ring and we looked at several AVCs in the past few months (online). We were looking at AVCs in the .70-.90 range. It's not really an issue of budget since this ring is less than what our budget is. But, I agree that $4k is not reasonable for this ring.

I am taking it today to have it evaluated to see if I want to take the next step. I realize that there is an inherent problem with buying from friends, uncert stones, etc. etc. But, people buy stuff from antique dealers, ebay, etc. all the time and no one makes a big stink about it. However, I don't intend on over paying for this.

 

[mandasand]

Compared to an AVC...it would be a definite N O! You want to wear what you LUV. I would pass.

I know...and I've been so indecisive. The budget doesn't allow for a .95 ct AVC/AVR unless it's a lower color. I was hoping for an I/H. That would bring me down to a .75 ct.

 

[GreenBling]

Have you seen it side by side with an ideal cut diamond?

 

[VRBeauty]

It doesn't sound to me like you're particularly fond of this particular stone or ring, and - as Gypsy surmised - that you're going through the motions hoping to find a reason to say no. You've fallen in love with the AVC, this is nowhere close to an AVC, so just say no! I realize the lure of having a bigger stone must be strong, but wouldn't you rather have a .75 stone that you love in a setting you love, than a .95 stone you're OK about, in a setting that you're just OK about?

 

[motownmama]

upon closer reading - agreed!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I think it could the lighting in my office where I took the picture. It doesn't look dark under the table in real life. I think it's very beautiful and it's really sweet that she wants me to have it. I've always wanted a vintage ring. So I have to think about it.

A few numbers were thrown out - $1600...$2000...I just want to get a good idea of what you think we should offer, in case we go that route. I get the feeling like the opinion is "don't buy," but I want to hear more opinions!

I will try and take some better pictures tomorrow.

the stone doesnt look that great. --she doesnt want you to have it--she wants you to buy it...

This.

You want someone to say don't buy it. I will say it.

Yep, the stone looks odd to me. I will also say don't buy it.

 

[Gypsy]

It doesn't sound to me like you're particularly fond of this particular stone or ring, and - as Gypsy surmised - that you're going through the motions hoping to find a reason to say no. You've fallen in love with the AVC, this is nowhere close to an AVC, so just say no! I realize the lure of having a bigger stone must be strong, but wouldn't you rather have a .75 stone that you love in a setting you love, than a .95 stone you're OK about, in a setting that you're just OK about?

This. You are excited by the history and the emotional attachment and the potential 'deal'. But you don't love the stone itself, you like the ring DESPITE the stone and it's faceting, and that's the wrong combo. A deal isn't a deal unless it's exactly what you want. I really think you are going to regret it if you buy this ring.

 

[Lula]

I think it could the lighting in my office where I took the picture. It doesn't look dark under the table in real life. I think it's very beautiful and it's really sweet that she wants me to have it. I've always wanted a vintage ring. So I have to think about it.

A few numbers were thrown out - $1600...$2000...I just want to get a good idea of what you think we should offer, in case we go that route. I get the feeling like the opinion is "don't buy," but I want to hear more opinions!

I will try and take some better pictures tomorrow.

the stone doesnt look that great. --she doesnt want you to have it--she wants you to buy it...

This.

You want someone to say don't buy it. I will say it.

Yep, the stone looks odd to me. I will also say don't buy it.

Add me to the list. I don't recommend that you buy it.

I've seen a lot of vintage stones cut like this and most of them are duds. Asking a local jeweler to evaluate it will likely be a waste of time. Most of them have no expertise in evaluating vintage and antique jewelry, and I would not take most local jewelers' assessments of cut, color, and clarity as gospel either. My guess is that GIA would grade the cut quality on that diamond as good, or at best very good. If you believe the color to be I/J, use the PS search to price out a .90 GIA J SI1 very good cut diamond, and you'll have a ballpark (retail) for the diamond. This is a used ring that comes without a GIA lab report, so you wouldn't pay retail for the stone, and used settings are only worth a bit more than scrap. When I did a quick search, I found that diamonds with those specs ranged from @ $2500 - 3500. If I was in your position, considering the questionable quality of the ring (no lab report to verify), the possible weird dynamics of buying a ring from friend's family, and the fact that your future fiance would rather buy something new, I'd spend the money on a smaller AVC and trade up to a larger carat weight for a future anniversary.

ETA: Here's a link to a James Allen GIA Ex cut that's cut a bit deep, is not H&A, and has some darkness under the table. It's 4 grand, and it's a brand new stone. http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1524639.asp

 

[Lula]

It doesn't sound to me like you're particularly fond of this particular stone or ring, and - as Gypsy surmised - that you're going through the motions hoping to find a reason to say no. You've fallen in love with the AVC, this is nowhere close to an AVC, so just say no! I realize the lure of having a bigger stone must be strong, but wouldn't you rather have a .75 stone that you love in a setting you love, than a .95 stone you're OK about, in a setting that you're just OK about?

This. You are excited by the history and the emotional attachment and the potential 'deal'. But you don't love the stone itself, you like the ring DESPITE the stone and it's faceting, and that's the wrong combo. A deal isn't a deal unless it's exactly what you want. I really think you are going to regret it if you buy this ring.

And if the dollars and cents and lab report arguments don't convince you, consider this. It's good advice.

 

[Lula]

I think it could the lighting in my office where I took the picture. It doesn't look dark under the table in real life. I think it's very beautiful and it's really sweet that she wants me to have it. I've always wanted a vintage ring. So I have to think about it.

A few numbers were thrown out - $1600...$2000...I just want to get a good idea of what you think we should offer, in case we go that route. I get the feeling like the opinion is "don't buy," but I want to hear more opinions!

I will try and take some better pictures tomorrow.

the stone doesnt look that great. --she doesnt want you to have it--she wants you to buy it...

This.

You want someone to say don't buy it. I will say it.

Yep, the stone looks odd to me. I will also say don't buy it.

Add me to the list. I don't recommend that you buy it.

I've seen a lot of vintage stones cut like this and most of them are duds. Asking a local jeweler to evaluate it will likely be a waste of time. Most of them have no expertise in evaluating vintage and antique jewelry, and I would not take most local jewelers' assessments of cut, color, and clarity as gospel either. My guess is that GIA would grade the cut quality on that diamond as good, or at best very good. If you believe the color to be I/J, use the PS search to price out a .90 GIA J SI1 very good cut diamond, and you'll have a ballpark (retail) for the diamond. This is a used ring that comes without a GIA lab report, so you wouldn't pay retail for the stone, and used settings are only worth a bit more than scrap. When I did a quick search, I found that diamonds with those specs ranged from @ $2500 - 3500. If I was in your position, considering the questionable quality of the ring (no lab report to verify), the possible weird dynamics of buying a ring from friend's family, and the fact that your future fiance would rather buy something new, I'd spend the money on a smaller AVC and trade up to a larger carat weight for a future anniversary.

I just re-read your posts and saw that you think the setting might need work. Platinum repairs are not cheap, and not every jeweler will work on vintage platinum settings. Make sure you factor that cost into the purchase if you decide to go ahead with this.

 

[mandasand]

I think it could the lighting in my office where I took the picture. It doesn't look dark under the table in real life. I think it's very beautiful and it's really sweet that she wants me to have it. I've always wanted a vintage ring. So I have to think about it.

A few numbers were thrown out - $1600...$2000...I just want to get a good idea of what you think we should offer, in case we go that route. I get the feeling like the opinion is "don't buy," but I want to hear more opinions!

I will try and take some better pictures tomorrow.

the stone doesnt look that great. --she doesnt want you to have it--she wants you to buy it...

This.

You want someone to say don't buy it. I will say it.

Yep, the stone looks odd to me. I will also say don't buy it.

Add me to the list. I don't recommend that you buy it.

I've seen a lot of vintage stones cut like this and most of them are duds. Asking a local jeweler to evaluate it will likely be a waste of time. Most of them have no expertise in evaluating vintage and antique jewelry, and I would not take most local jewelers' assessments of cut, color, and clarity as gospel either. My guess is that GIA would grade the cut quality on that diamond as good, or at best very good. If you believe the color to be I/J, use the PS search to price out a .90 GIA J SI1 very good cut diamond, and you'll have a ballpark (retail) for the diamond. This is a used ring that comes without a GIA lab report, so you wouldn't pay retail for the stone, and used settings are only worth a bit more than scrap. When I did a quick search, I found that diamonds with those specs ranged from @ $2500 - 3500. If I was in your position, considering the questionable quality of the ring (no lab report to verify), the possible weird dynamics of buying a ring from friend's family, and the fact that your future fiance would rather buy something new, I'd spend the money on a smaller AVC and trade up to a larger carat weight for a future anniversary.

ETA: Here's a link to a James Allen GIA Ex cut that's cut a bit deep, is not H&A, and has some darkness under the table. It's 4 grand, and it's a brand new stone. http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1524639.asp

Thank you...I appreciate your comments

 

[VRBeauty]

One of the most satisfying purchases I ever made was when I bought my MINI Cooper 10 years ago. I'd known for a while that my prior car -which I had sort of "fallen into" - was on its last legs, and I did a lot of work identifying what I wanted in a car and what my options were in my price range. The MINI wasn't on my short list but I took a test drive anyway and fell in love with it. The only reason it had not been on my short list was that the back seat looked impractical... but I realized that in reality, I very rarely have a second passenger in my car and could live with an impractical back seat! The MINI met all of my other criteria - handling, fuel economy, safety, and appearance - in spades. My point is that my decision-making process added to the satisfaction I got from my car. I got a lot of pleasure from the knowledge that it wasn't just a car that would do, but a car that I chose after careful thought.

An engagement ring is a much more important purchase than a car. You and your BF have already talked about and reached agreements about budget and other parameters. Looking at your other thread, I see that you've decided that really want an AVC, and that you've done a lot of work to the vast array of possible settings down to one or two. (I love the last one you posted, by the way!) You can't put a monetary value on what this sort of satisfaction would add to your ring and of course it doesn't make that diamond any bigger, but it's something you'll miss out on if you go with the neighbor's ring.

 

[mandasand]

I took it to the local goldsmith...he said the ring is in very good condition and is early modern cut. He agrees that it's probably J/K in color. He actually thinks the stone performs well. It is not dark under the table. He suggests I have it appraised for $85 from their independent appraiser that comes in ever other week. I told my boyfriend that I am giving the ring back to my dad and if he's interested in having it appraised, he can arrange it. He knows what I like and we have researched for a year now. I trust he will make the right decision.

Just curious if this would be a comparable...listed at $4495. Setting has more diamonds. The one I'm looking at "appraised" as a VS1 H/I color, .95 ct
http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-Vintage/80ct-est-Round-Brilliant-D/23220844_ztmx79#!i=1872133628&k=PTmpqr6

I doubt anyone wants...but I can post more pics...

 

[Dreamer_D]

The JBEG one looks like a similar cut. The mount is more desirable. I would guess its a consignment stone so the price is... well its not a "sold" value if you KWIM. People can ask whatever they like, selling prices are what matter in vintage world.

I have seen a lot of diamonds in my time. From the photos, even poor as they are in the sense of not representing the true appearance of the stone, I can tell you its not a partiularly well cut example of its kind. Cut matters more than anything else, so I do not recommend you buy the ring.

You seem very set on pursuing this ring despite the consensus here that it is not a good buy. That is your perogative. You can NOT use the appraised value in negotiating IMO. It will be inflated and out of touch. You will need to look on ebay and similar to find true comps on private sales by individuals. I think on Diamond Bistro a ring like that might fetch $1200. I would not pay more. Most private sellers, especially when they have an emotional attachment to a ring, think their pieces are worth much more than reality dictates. Be a saavy shopper. Actually, I would say be a REALLY saavy shopper and listen to what we are telling you and pass on the ring But if you won't be that saavy for whatever personal reasons, then at least make sure you do not overpay.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The faceting doesn't look like an old style cut, but a not so good modern cut.

1. How many well cut modern diamonds have you seen in person? How many chunky old cut diamonds you have seen in person? If not many, it is easy to fall in love with the first (or second or third) shiny stone you see. More so in your mind when you know it's from family.

2. How do you know how much to offer her if you don't know the grading and stats for sure? I've read too many stories of friends this, family friend that, and etc and they ended up overpaying for poor quality diamonds.

Just food for thought as you continue shopping for your right stone.

Very wise advice, read it carefully Manda.

 

[mandasand]

Thanks Dreamer...I am not "set" on pursuing the ring. I just wanted to take it to the local jeweler for another opinion. It's going back to my parents and even though mom's friend is attached to it, she may not be completely off her rocker to want $4k for the ring considering the comparable and what it was appraised at. The jeweler said the gemologist would not give me an insurance estimate but an actual value and her recommendations based on her assessment.

The thing is, I needed to due my due diligence because that's just my nature. I research everything to death. Otherwise I cannot make an informed decision. This thread has also helped me tremendously. But I figured I would do myself and my mom's friend a disservice if I didn't at least take a day and a half to do my homework.

That being said, have no fear, I don't plan on taking any further action. But, I think this is an interesting discussion...