Need Opinion: 3.01 J Color Diamond

[NeedAssistance1]

I recently purchased a 3.01 carat J Color Diamond. I must have looked at 40 diamonds, but settled on this one because it looked the best to me. I am proposing this Friday, but I am having second thoughts about the J color. I realize it is at the low end of the near colorless spectrum, (and I could see a difference between this diamond and a D color), but I wanted to get an expert, unbiased opinion on the following two questions:

1. I paid $30, 500 for the ring, out the door. It is set in Platinum. Is this a good deal?

2. Should I return the diamond and try to het an H color, SI 1, in a similar size (maybe smaller)?

Thank you for the opinion - I am a novice and just looking for some help.

Here are the exact specs:

Round Brilliant

Measurements: 9.09 - 9.15 x 5.66 mm

Carat Weight: 3.01

Color Grade: J

Clarity Grade: VS2

Proportions:

Depth: 62.1 %

Table: 60 %

Girdle: Medium to Extremely Thick, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: None

Additional Information

Crown Angle: 31°

Crown Height: 12 %

Pavilion Angle: 41.2°

Pavilion Depth: 43.5 %

Star length: 55 %

Lower Half: 75 %

Cut Grade: Fair

Comments: Pinpoints are not shown.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to Pricescope!

Does this diamond have a GIA report? It is cut quality which makes a diamond beautiful, a diamond with an excellent cut will enable even a J colour to face up plenty white for many people. You could certainly find a better cut diamond, so your thoughts on getting a smaller stone are fine, but look for one with the best cut you can get. Look at AGS0 cut grade and some GIA Excellent to make finding a lovely diamond easier.

A J colour wouldn't worry me at all, but poor cut quality would, as the diamond won't sparkle as it should. It sounds as if you have looked at many diamonds, if you like this one then that is the main thing, but you could be better off considering a smaller diamond with a better cut - as a well cut stone will show off any colour to it's best advantage. You have a great budget, you could get a superb diamond with it!

As to prices, you can check that using the Pricescope your Diamond tool at the top of the page, type in same size, colour, carat and lab report to get an idea.

Here are some numbers you could use as a guide to help you find a well cut diamond.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

 

[NeedAssistance1]

It does have a GIA report. Those specs are pulled directly from it. Thanks.

 

[vespergirl]

It sounds like a beautiful diamond, but me personally, I would go with higher color and lower clarity, like an H SI2. But, some people like a bit of warmth in the color of the stone, and a J can be beautiful. I like more of the "icy white" type color, so I probably would not go below H, but it''s personal preference. Some people are bothered by inclusions, even if the stone is eyeclean, while some are not. My stone is a G SI1, because I notice color more than inclusions, but that''s just me. Is there any way that you could find out what your girl would want?

Either way, she''s going to be delighted with a 3 ct stone - can''t wait to see pics!

 

[robh505]

I would be much more concerned about the "fair" cut of the stone than the J color. The stats seem so far off that you can''t even put them into the HCA to see how it grades because it won''t compute due to the overly thick girdle. I don''t know how competitive the price is, but it seems that some corners were probably cut (or not cut) to get this stone above 3 cts.

 

[neatfreak]

I would also be much more concerned about the cut than the color. A well cut J stone can be stunning, a poorly cut one you can see color much easier. Lorelei has some great suggestions!!!

 

[stone_seeker]

I agree with the comments regarding "cut" - you can do better than fair. $30K is a lot of money and you should be able to get the best for what you are paying.

I dont think I have seen any J''s in person but I try to stay G/H or better on larger stones just from what some jewlers have told me. But I''ve seen some great looking J''s here on PS so that would be secondary to getting a better cut grade.

Do you have to propose on Friday?

 

[NeedAssistance1]

Yes. We are leaving for a foreign country. I will try and contact the jeweler but to make a very long story short, I''ve had the diamond for 90 days and I don''t even know if an exchange/return is possible.

 

[autumngems]

You can get a H color SI at Whiteflash that is 2.89 carats for 31,000
http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1253060.htm

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 8/26/2008 1:04:01 PM
Author: NeedAssistance1
Yes. We are leaving for a foreign country. I will try and contact the jeweler but to make a very long story short, I''ve had the diamond for 90 days and I don''t even know if an exchange/return is possible.

See what you can do. As I said, much of what we say here has to do with how a stone should perform based on paper. There have been many threads saying those specs are restrictive and stones outside of those specs may still be beautiful. You have seen this stone as well as many others so if you think it sparkles and shines and looks good, then I wouldnt worry about getting validation here. We will never have the benefit of seeing what you saw.

 

[NeedAssistance1]

I spoke to the jeweler. How about a 3.13 carat, GIA Cert., H, SI1, Excellent Cut. The only downside is that it has strong blue flouresence. Is this something that should concern me? Thanks.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/26/2008 2:31:53 PM
Author: NeedAssistance1
I spoke to the jeweler. How about a 3.13 carat, GIA Cert., H, SI1, Excellent Cut. The only downside is that it has strong blue flouresence. Is this something that should concern me? Thanks.

The fluorescence could be a bonus and help the diamond face up whiter, rarely it can cause a diamond to look cloudy in some light such as sunlight, but this is rare.

If you could post the following info please which should be on the report, we can help you further. Also check if this diamond is eyeclean to your standards.

depth
table
crown angle
pavilion angle
girdle
polish and symmetry
diameter measurement

 

[NeedAssistance1]

Will do. I will post the specs later today. I am looking at the diamond tomorrow. I spoke to the jeweler who explained flourescence, and told me it it not "oily" at all. He''s a good guy (reputable local jeweler), but I want to confirm everything independently. Thanks so much for your help.

 

[robh505]

Date: 8/26/2008 2:43:43 PM
Author: NeedAssistance1
Will do. I will post the specs later today. I am looking at the diamond tomorrow. I spoke to the jeweler who explained flourescence, and told me it it not 'oily' at all. He's a good guy (reputable local jeweler), but I want to confirm everything independently. Thanks so much for your help.

Just to play devils advocate here. While everything is always in the eye of the beholder, you can clearly tell that people on PS are very focused on the cut quality of the diamond as being the most important of the 4-Cs. Afterall, cut is what makes a diamond sparkly. On the spectrum of GIA rated quality for cut, I assume it's 1) Excellent 2) Very Good 3) good and 4) fair.

After reading through this site, it seems rare that anyone who frequents Pricescope buys a round diamond below excellent, and almost no one buys one below very good. Your reputable dealer just sold you one that's graded 'fair.' One that has specs so out of 'excellent' that you can't even input them into the HCA grader for cut quality. There's no way around it, that's a very low score for a diamond. While some people have commented that some diamonds that don't look good on paper do actually have tons of sparkle, normally we're talking about things that are slightly out of the normal bounds for what would be an excellent or very good 'very good' rated diamond. I have a hard time believing that a GIA rated 'fair' diamond would be one of those. When I think of the type of stuff a mall jeweler would sell, 'fair' graded diamonds is the type of thing that comes to mind.

All that being said, I'm just a novice at this stuff. I'm sure there are others that can show how my analysis is flawed.

 

[NeedAssistance1]

Here are the specs. Bad news though, he wants 7,000 more for this one. . .


Round Brilliant

Measurements: 9.39 - 9.40 x 5.77 mm

Carat Weight: 3.13

Color Grade: H

Clarity Grade: SI1

Cut Grade: Very Good

Proportions:

Depth: 61.4 %

Table: 55 %

Crown Angle: 35°

Crown Height: 15.5 %

Pavilion Angle: 40.4°

Pavilion Depth: 42.5 %

Star length: 55 %

Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Medium

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: Strong Blue

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

I''ve heard that flourescence, unless is it very strong, is a non-issue and I have seen some diamonds with flouro that look very cool. The second diamond you mentioned sounds better and I would trade out your diamond if possible, but in the future, I would avoid a jeweler that is selling "Fair" cut diamonds at any price.

Here is a nice 2.52 I/VS2 from GoodOldGold in your price range that looks good, just as an example:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4765/

I have bought both H and I color diamonds from GOG and they both faced up very white and had awesome light return!

 

[Jenn5504]

Date: 8/26/2008 2:31:53 PM
Author: NeedAssistance1
I spoke to the jeweler. How about a 3.13 carat, GIA Cert., H, SI1, Excellent Cut. The only downside is that it has strong blue flouresence. Is this something that should concern me? Thanks.

Sounds very promising!

As the owner of well cut J and K stones, I did want to add if well cut these stones can face up very white. But I would not recommend a "fair" cut J personally.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 8/26/2008 3:38:59 PM
Author: NeverEndingUpgrade
I''ve heard that flourescence, unless is it very strong, is a non-issue and I have seen some diamonds with flouro that look very cool. The second diamond you mentioned sounds better and I would trade out your diamond if possible, but in the future, I would avoid a jeweler that is selling ''Fair'' cut diamonds at any price.

Here is a nice 2.52 I/VS2 from GoodOldGold in your price range that looks good, just as an example:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4765/

I have bought both H and I color diamonds from GOG and they both faced up very white and had awesome light return!

good choice. but he would need it set and sent to him by friday. might be tough.

 

[Lorelei]

This diamond looks much better, I would definitely try to go and see it so you can compare it with the one you have - then it might become clear if the price difference is worth it to you. Also see if you can compare both away from the jewellery store lights, as those lights can be deceptive.

 

[robh505]

Now here you have a diamond that is only rated a ''Very Good'' cut by GIA, but scores an excellent .6 on the HCA. I would be much more comfortable saying that if this diamond looks like it has a lot of sparkle, then it probably does. You should compare the two diamonds next to each other. Chances are you should see a big difference in light return between the two.

 

[mercoledi]

Looks like it could be a winner. I''m not surprised it costs more, it''s a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

 

[robh505]

Date: 8/26/2008 3:47:59 PM
Author: mercoledi
Looks like it could be a winner. I''m not surprised it costs more, it''s a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

Wow, what a difference fluorescence makes in the price.

 

[:)]

Date: 8/26/2008 3:53:59 PM
Author: robh505

Date: 8/26/2008 3:47:59 PM
Author: mercoledi
Looks like it could be a winner. I''m not surprised it costs more, it''s a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

Wow, what a difference fluorescence makes in the price.

Fluoro actually drops the price only in DEF- It can actually raise the price in other letters (because of the color assistance it can give!)

I am really glad you are looking at the better cut stone. The J you first posted is facing up very small for its weight (as posted before the girdle is WAY too thick!!)

Make sure the new stone meets your eyecleanliness standards.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/26/2008 3:53:59 PM
Author: robh505

Date: 8/26/2008 3:47:59 PM
Author: mercoledi
Looks like it could be a winner. I'm not surprised it costs more, it's a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

Wow, what a difference fluorescence makes in the price.

Actually, it's a lot more than just the flo that is affecting the price. Aside from carat weight, color, and clarity, the two stones don't have a lot in common. The GOG stone is a H&A cut, along with being an Isee2 branded, which means it's very tightly cut. Cut grade is Ex, not VG, and the crown and pavilion angles are much more complimentary.

You pointed out the second stone here scores a .06, but it's not just about the numerical score, in fact, it's more important where the x falls, which is outside of even GIA EX range.


I'm not saying all this to put down the second stone, but I did want to make it clear that we are not comparing apples with apples here. You get what you pay for, and you will pay for a very well cut stone.

 

[:)]

Date: 8/26/2008 4:10:02 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/26/2008 3:53:59 PM
Author: robh505

Date: 8/26/2008 3:47:59 PM
Author: mercoledi
Looks like it could be a winner. I'm not surprised it costs more, it's a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

Wow, what a difference fluorescence makes in the price.

Actually, it's a lot more than just the flo that is affecting the price. Aside from carat weight, color, and clarity, the two stones don't have a lot in common. The GOG stone is a H&A cut, along with being an Isee2 branded, which means it's very tightly cut. Cut grade is Ex, not VG, and the crown and pavilion angles are much more complimentary.

You pointed out the second stone here scores a .06, but it's not just about the numerical score, in fact, it's more important where the x falls, which is outside of even GIA EX range.


I'm not saying all this to put down the secomd stone, but I did want to make it clear that we are not comparing apples with apples here. You get what you pay for, and you will pay for a very well cut stone.

Ellen is right (as always!

) - although he is under such a time constraint (and outside return period) this second stone is sooo much better than the first!!

 

[mercoledi]

Date: 8/26/2008 3:53:59 PM
Author: robh505

Date: 8/26/2008 3:47:59 PM

Author: mercoledi

Looks like it could be a winner. I'm not surprised it costs more, it's a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

Wow, what a difference fluorescence makes in the price.

The whole price difference can't be the fluoro, the GOG stone is also a branded diamond though I don't recognize the symbol. It may be HOF or something. In any case, the price that you're getting is well below anything that shows up on the price advisor thingy. You're looking at a nice stone in a rare size.

When you visit it, make sure that it's eye-clean to your standards. Is there any chance your vendor can give you and IS or ASET image? This new stone is heads and shoulders above the first one. It will look much, much bigger and brighter.


ETA: Thanks Ellen! I couldn't remember if that was ISee2 or HOF. Pretty stone though.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/26/2008 4:14:24 PM
Author:

Date: 8/26/2008 4:10:02 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/26/2008 3:53:59 PM
Author: robh505

Date: 8/26/2008 3:47:59 PM
Author: mercoledi
Looks like it could be a winner. I''m not surprised it costs more, it''s a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

Wow, what a difference fluorescence makes in the price.

Actually, it''s a lot more than just the flo that is affecting the price. Aside from carat weight, color, and clarity, the two stones don''t have a lot in common. The GOG stone is a H&A cut, along with being an Isee2 branded, which means it''s very tightly cut. Cut grade is Ex, not VG, and the crown and pavilion angles are much more complimentary.

You pointed out the second stone here scores a .06, but it''s not just about the numerical score, in fact, it''s more important where the x falls, which is outside of even GIA EX range.


I''m not saying all this to put down the secomd stone, but I did want to make it clear that we are not comparing apples with apples here. You get what you pay for, and you will pay for a very well cut stone.

Ellen is right (as always!

) - although he is under such a time constraint (and outside return period) this second stone is sooo much better than the first!!

LOL!!!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/26/2008 4:14:24 PM
Author:

Date: 8/26/2008 4:10:02 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/26/2008 3:53:59 PM
Author: robh505

Date: 8/26/2008 3:47:59 PM
Author: mercoledi
Looks like it could be a winner. I''m not surprised it costs more, it''s a big jump in size, color and cut! This similar stone at GOG is 47,800.

Wow, what a difference fluorescence makes in the price.

Actually, it''s a lot more than just the flo that is affecting the price. Aside from carat weight, color, and clarity, the two stones don''t have a lot in common. The GOG stone is a H&A cut, along with being an Isee2 branded, which means it''s very tightly cut. Cut grade is Ex, not VG, and the crown and pavilion angles are much more complimentary.

You pointed out the second stone here scores a .06, but it''s not just about the numerical score, in fact, it''s more important where the x falls, which is outside of even GIA EX range.


I''m not saying all this to put down the secomd stone, but I did want to make it clear that we are not comparing apples with apples here. You get what you pay for, and you will pay for a very well cut stone.

Ellen is right (as always!

) - although he is under such a time constraint (and outside return period) this second stone is sooo much better than the first!!

Oh please, not even close! But thankies just the same!

And yes, I agree the second stone is better!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/26/2008 4:14:28 PM
Author: mercoledi



The whole price difference can''t be the fluoro, the GOG stone is also a branded diamond though I don''t recognize the symbol. It may be HOF or something. In any case, the price that you''re getting is well below anything that shows up on the price advisor thingy. You''re looking at a nice stone in a rare size.

When you visit it, make sure that it''s eye-clean to your standards. Is there any chance your vendor can give you and IS or ASET image? This new stone is heads and shoulders above the first one. It will look much, much bigger and brighter.


ETA: Thanks Ellen! I couldn''t remember if that was ISee2 or HOF. Pretty stone though.

To be honest, I wouldn''t call it pretty.




More like killer.

 

[mercoledi]

Date: 8/26/2008 4:20:05 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/26/2008 4:14:28 PM

Author: mercoledi


ETA: Thanks Ellen! I couldn't remember if that was ISee2 or HOF. Pretty stone though.

To be honest, I wouldn't call it pretty.



More like killer.

(the house I grew up in cost less than that)

But yes, killer!

Or, dare we? Kicken?