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Need honest opinions and advice. Am I crazy?

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
So, my BF (or now FH) finally proposed and gave me my ER. It is a very pretty 3 stone oval in a platinum trellis. I searched high and low for my center which is a knockout 1.07 ct G VS1 and an excellent cut. I've been told by a couple of jewelers and the appraiser that it is a "high" G. So, the jeweler originally told me they were going to match the center with G VS stones. Well, that sounded too good to be true. Well, it was ....but they swore they would do an excellent job matching the color and brilliance of the center. So, I was never told what they were going to put in. The appraiser just told me that I have 1 F SI2 and 1 H SI2. :confused: So, I'm no where near the original quote for matching stones. I was disappointed when the appraiser gave his assessment. Even accepting the fact they are not G VS as originally told, shouldn't the sides be the same such as 2 - F SI2?

Looking at the ring, it's super sparkly. In almost all lighting, all 3 stones look very white. The H stone only shows the slightest tint in a couple lighting conditions and you have to be close up, staring at it. I can see it in my office but my office has soft yellow walls so it kind of gives the entire ring a bit of yellow tint. The other is when the sun casts a strong yellow/ orange. Again, it gives all three stones a bit of yellow tint. You can see the H is a tad darker.

Am I crazy? Or am I too hung up on diamond specs? Would you have an issue with the side stones being different colors and SI2?

My sweetie was a little disappointed too but he said it is a pretty ring. Looking at it, you can't tell what the color and clarity the sides are....it just looks sparkly. He said it was my decision on whether or not to give it back to the jeweler but there was no guarantee that it would look any better or the setting wouldn't be damaged in the process. He has a point.

I have some really nice photos I took over the weekend but they're on my FH's laptop. I'll post those later. For now, I took a couple of quick pics in my office.

Tell me what you guys think.


Finally%20003%20(Medium).jpg

Finally%20009%20(Medium).jpg

Finally%20014%20(Medium).jpg
 

Sizzle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,304
Are the diamonds certified? At this point if you're happy with the ring and he's happy with the price he paid, leave it alone OR see if they are willing to give you some type of money back.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
If the stones did not come with lab reports, then you don't know what you have. Since you cannot grade color or clarity for set stones, you also cannot go by the appraisers opinion either. He might be wrong! (though less likely wrong about the clarity).

You could look for certed side stones. It will not damage the setting to set new stones, but they would need to be near identical dimensions to the ones you have to keep this same setting. So finding different sides could mean making a whole new setting.

But if you like how the ring looks, and as Sizzle said, are happy with the price you paid, why overthink it?

From the pictures the side stones look very nice. I highly doubt you are really seeing tint in the so-called "H" stone, since one color grade and its smaller size should not make it noticably different than the center stone. The mind can play tricks. Did you see these differences in color before you got the appraisers opinion?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,810
I would be pretty aggravated if i was led to believe the side stones were going to be G VS. I can see making them both F or both H, but I get why you wouldn't want an F on one side and H on the other. And I would be furious about the SI2 if I had been told they would be VS! I'd just look very carefully, and if you cannot SEE any inclusions and cannot see the color difference in various lighting, then I wouldn't worry about it, although I would want to be sure I didn't overpay. I just think I would want the quality of all three stones to be close to the same quality.
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
Hi ladies,

Thanks for the quick replies.
Sizzle, the center is certified but the sides were not. I looked on pricescope recently and there are hardly any ovals in the .25-.30 ct range. I was also told ovals were tricky to match. Perhaps, that is why I ended up with the sides I did. Not to make excuses for them.

Dreamer, I am a bit color sensitive and also tend to be OCD. So, I did detect a slight difference between the center and the side in question. However, I played it up to lighting. So, you are most likely right about his assessment causing a heightened sensitivity or flat out messing with my head. Now, that you mentioned the difficulty in grading a set stone. My FH made a comment of he thinks this whole rating bit is a bunch of hokus pokus. I told him why would the appraiser just come up with false grade. He has nothing to gain.

As for the price, my FH said either way we come out a head. We paid half of what the appraisal listed. I know that can be fudged a bit.

My best friend suggested I let it go but just mention the appraisal to the jeweler to see if they're willing to do something. She said it's a "imperfectly perfect" ring. I guess nothing in life is perfect and I'm putting myself through unnecessary stress.

What is your opinion on the clarity? Does clarity really matter? Thanks again for your help!
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
diamondseeker2006|1305048029|2917486 said:
I would be pretty aggravated if i was led to believe the side stones were going to be G VS. I can see making them both F or both H, but I get why you wouldn't want an F on one side and H on the other. And I would be furious about the SI2 if I had been told they would be VS! I'd just look very carefully, and if you cannot SEE any inclusions and cannot see the color difference in various lighting, then I wouldn't worry about it, although I would want to be sure I didn't overpay. I just think I would want the quality of all three stones to be close to the same quality.
Hi DiamondSeeker,
I have the same feeling about equal quality among the 3 stones. At least, G SI1 stones on the side. I've looked at the ring in direct light like LED lighting, normal indoor lighting, in the sun, the shade, etc...the nuances are really hard to see. I think I just know because I've been over examining it. I believe to the average person viewing my ring, it's not noticeable. As for the inclusions, you can't see them without a loupe.

I think what bugs me is in my mind I expected better quality than I received. And not being given an option to say yes or no to the sides they were using.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Again, you are putting stock in an appraisers opinion of color and clarity and those opinions were offered under circumstances where you cannot actually judge those things. Why did the appraiser offer an opinion? For insurance purposes, and his appraisal should state, or he should state to you, that color in particular cannot be graded face up in a set ring and that his opinion is an estimate based on looking at the stones when set. I personally think an appraisal like that should only give a range of color for side stones for insurance purposes -- like G-H, SI -- because it is misleading to suggest that you can judge color face up in a set ring. GIA and AGS grade color *face down and loose* for lab reports.

So you may not have gotten the poor quality you think you got! Your side stones may in fact be more matched than you think they are.

If you cannot see the inclusions except with a loupe, and given that the SI2 grade was not from a lab but from an appraiser of set stones, I would not be concerned about that personally.

If the color difference is apparaent to you and bothers you, then ask your jeweler to source you another oval side stone.
 

rubybeth

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,567
I think you could ask to have certed side stones of the same color/clarity put into the ring instead, but my initial thought was that maybe the stones were chosen for their shape vs. color/clarity, since fancy cuts can vary so much (i.e. chubby oval vs. skinny, etc.).
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
rubybeth|1305051127|2917534 said:
I think you could ask to have certed side stones of the same color/clarity put into the ring instead, but my initial thought was that maybe the stones were chosen for their shape vs. color/clarity, since fancy cuts can vary so much (i.e. chubby oval vs. skinny, etc.).
I don't think side stones of that size are certed? mine are not certed, they were just sold as "F/G, VS"
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
slg47|1305051244|2917537 said:
rubybeth|1305051127|2917534 said:
I think you could ask to have certed side stones of the same color/clarity put into the ring instead, but my initial thought was that maybe the stones were chosen for their shape vs. color/clarity, since fancy cuts can vary so much (i.e. chubby oval vs. skinny, etc.).
I don't think side stones of that size are certed? mine are not certed, they were just sold as "F/G, VS"
Not usually certed in that ct. weight.

Finding two nice ovals with a good shape and no bowtie that match would be very hard.
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
rubybeth|1305051127|2917534 said:
I think you could ask to have certed side stones of the same color/clarity put into the ring instead, but my initial thought was that maybe the stones were chosen for their shape vs. color/clarity, since fancy cuts can vary so much (i.e. chubby oval vs. skinny, etc.).
I actually had a similar thought. I've been told fancy shapes are not easy to match and ovals seem to be hard to find so maybe that's why I ended up with these sides.
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
Dreamer_D|1305051517|2917545 said:
slg47|1305051244|2917537 said:
rubybeth|1305051127|2917534 said:
I think you could ask to have certed side stones of the same color/clarity put into the ring instead, but my initial thought was that maybe the stones were chosen for their shape vs. color/clarity, since fancy cuts can vary so much (i.e. chubby oval vs. skinny, etc.).
I don't think side stones of that size are certed? mine are not certed, they were just sold as "F/G, VS"
Not usually certed in that ct. weight.

Finding two nice ovals with a good shape and no bowtie that match would be very hard.
Dreamer,

You are right. I've searched a few of the online jewelers and there aren't many certified in the range I wanted. To find 2 ovals almost the same shape, size, color, etc... is very difficult. I guess this is my fault. I love ovals and I wanted a 3 stone ring. Maybe I should have chosen different shape sides. I originally considered half moons....grrr.

I do believe the appraiser's clarity assessment is pretty accurate. He let me view them and boy the feathers!

I have no reason to think that the jeweler would purposely cheat me but being upfront about being limited in matching the center would have been nice.
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
Ladies you have been a huge help in putting things in perspective and confirm some thoughts in my head. I honestly cannot get opinions from my friends or family because most if not all know nothing about diamonds. They definitely do not know what it's like to go through the process of creating your own ring. So, thank you all for your input! You guys are wonderful. I'll put up my nicer pictures on SMTB later and you can tell me if you like it or not.
 

Chicago Girl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
104
My first post, yay!

geisha, I think your ring looks lovely, but it sounds to me like this is something that really bothers you and therefore you should address the problem with the jeweler. Also, it could be the lighting of the picture but in your first picture the side stone on the left looks brighter/whiter than the side stone on the right. :((
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
Chicago Girl|1305061627|2917728 said:
My first post, yay!

geisha, I think your ring looks lovely, but it sounds to me like this is something that really bothers you and therefore you should address the problem with the jeweler. Also, it could be the lighting of the picture but in your first picture the side stone on the left looks brighter/whiter than the side stone on the right. :((
Thanks, Chicago Girl! The ring is very pretty in person. I wish cameras could capture sparkle/brilliance. However, it does bother me but I think more-so because the appraiser told me I got less than what was promised by the jeweler. Every once in awhile one does appear slightly tinted or darker than the other. It could be the lighting in my office which is where I took the pictures.

I have emailed the jeweler a nice detailed letter describing my disappointment. I don't expect anything will change but we'll see how they respond.
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
So, the jeweler responded to my email and he swears he did not use a F and a H. He said that sending out a pair that were 3 grades apart would be noticed right away. He also said they were not SI2 stones because the inclusions would be noticeable and that's not the case with my stones.

I know Dreamer has already said the appraiser could be mistaken in his assessment. So, is the jeweler right in saying an SI2 stone would have noticeable inclusions? That you would be able to tell immediately the color difference between F and H? Many of you have had more experience and knowledge with diamonds than I so let me know if the jeweler is correct?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
geisha_gyrl|1305063661|2917767 said:
So, the jeweler responded to my email and he swears he did not use a F and a H. He said that sending out a pair that were 3 grades apart would be noticed right away. He also said they were not SI2 stones because the inclusions would be noticeable and that's not the case with my stones.

I know Dreamer has already said the appraiser could be mistaken in his assessment. So, is the jeweler right in saying an SI2 stone would have noticeable inclusions? That you would be able to tell immediately the color difference between F and H? Many of you have had more experience and knowledge with diamonds than I so let me know if the jeweler is correct?
I think this is the trouble with uncerted stones, there is no benchmark. That said, these types of stones don't ususally come certed, so in a sense you have to trust your vendor.

I think that if you really cannot see the inclusions at all with the naked eye, it is really unlikely that *both* are SI2. Are they VS? Who knows. But finding two Si2 stones that match one another as well as those ovals match AND are both so completely eye clean would be magical! So I think it is totally possible that they are SI1, or even VS2. You just don't know with this type of situation. Me personally, if I could not see the inclusions *at all* then it would not matter to me. With uncerted stones, the key is appearance and how you feel abotu them, a little less so the "specs" because you cannot know them.

As to color, I think you would notice the difference between a true F and H. It is too bad you did not get to see these stones loose to set your mind at ease. But color grading is subjective, more than clarity and cut I think. So the so-called F might be a G, and the so-caled H might be a G too! One grade range would be OK with me with that type of grading, not done under ideal GIA type standards. And that is likely as accurate as you can get with small stones being graded not under ideal circumstances. That is why most ungraded stones are sold as "F-G" or "G-H" not one grade. So your jeweler likely got you "G-H" ovals. That matches the appraisers opinion in my mind.

So all that said, my point is that you should not get hung up on the appraisers opinion but go by your eyes. Can't see inclusions? Fine. Colors match? Fine.

Now if YOU are not happy with the color of one of the sides, then go see your appraiser in person, politely and firmly express your unhappiness, and ask him to source a mate for you. He might not be able to, or willing, but it is worth looking into it.

But perfection won't be found most likely. Another stone might be better for color, but not as pleasing a facet pattern (your side stones look really good to me for ovals, which are really hard to find!), or not the exact same shape, or whatever.

If you want perfection, you need to pick a more uniform cut like RBs in my opinon. Part of the charm of fancies is the slight variation in their appearance!

FWIW, I love your ring.
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
Dreamer_D|1305090823|2918218 said:
geisha_gyrl|1305063661|2917767 said:
So, the jeweler responded to my email and he swears he did not use a F and a H. He said that sending out a pair that were 3 grades apart would be noticed right away. He also said they were not SI2 stones because the inclusions would be noticeable and that's not the case with my stones.

I know Dreamer has already said the appraiser could be mistaken in his assessment. So, is the jeweler right in saying an SI2 stone would have noticeable inclusions? That you would be able to tell immediately the color difference between F and H? Many of you have had more experience and knowledge with diamonds than I so let me know if the jeweler is correct?
I think this is the trouble with uncerted stones, there is no benchmark. That said, these types of stones don't ususally come certed, so in a sense you have to trust your vendor.

I think that if you really cannot see the inclusions at all with the naked eye, it is really unlikely that *both* are SI2. Are they VS? Who knows. But finding two Si2 stones that match one another as well as those ovals match AND are both so completely eye clean would be magical! So I think it is totally possible that they are SI1, or even VS2. You just don't know with this type of situation. Me personally, if I could not see the inclusions *at all* then it would not matter to me. With uncerted stones, the key is appearance and how you feel abotu them, a little less so the "specs" because you cannot know them.

As to color, I think you would notice the difference between a true F and H. It is too bad you did not get to see these stones loose to set your mind at ease. But color grading is subjective, more than clarity and cut I think. So the so-called F might be a G, and the so-caled H might be a G too! One grade range would be OK with me with that type of grading, not done under ideal GIA type standards. And that is likely as accurate as you can get with small stones being graded not under ideal circumstances. That is why most ungraded stones are sold as "F-G" or "G-H" not one grade. So your jeweler likely got you "G-H" ovals. That matches the appraisers opinion in my mind.

So all that said, my point is that you should not get hung up on the appraisers opinion but go by your eyes. Can't see inclusions? Fine. Colors match? Fine.

Now if YOU are not happy with the color of one of the sides, then go see your appraiser in person, politely and firmly express your unhappiness, and ask him to source a mate for you. He might not be able to, or willing, but it is worth looking into it.

But perfection won't be found most likely. Another stone might be better for color, but not as pleasing a facet pattern (your side stones look really good to me for ovals, which are really hard to find!), or not the exact same shape, or whatever.

If you want perfection, you need to pick a more uniform cut like RBs in my opinon. Part of the charm of fancies is the slight variation in their appearance!

FWIW, I love your ring.

Thanks Dreamer! You're awesome! You give great info and advice.

For the clarity, I assumed the appraiser was correct because when I viewed the diamonds in his office, I could see several inclusions. Granted he was using a high powered loupe that shows everything. So, last night, I pulled out my 10x loupe and tried to find the same inclusions I saw in his office. To be honest, I saw a feather in one and a couple of specks but not nearly as many as in his office. I would think if it was SI2, the inclusions would be very visible at 10x but I'm no trained gemologist so maybe I'm missing something. As for color, I've been examining the ring in different lighting. At times, one does seem to have a slight nuance but that could be lighting. At times, all 3 stones look very white. I think you are right that they could be F-G, or G-H, or very well both be G which is what I was promised. Overall, the ring has a uniform look. Dreamer, you're right. If it looks good, then why over think it. I needed some expert unbiased opinions and that's what you gave me so I appreciate it.

I finally posted better pics on SMTB. Thanks again everyone!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-were-engaged-my-3-stone-oval-trellis.160563/?uid=49467']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-were-engaged-my-3-stone-oval-trellis.160563/?uid=49467[/URL]
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
I am not expert with a loupe either, but I believe the definition of SI2 is that the inclusions are easily seen with a 10x loupe.

I am glad you feel better! In no way do I want to convince you to settle for something you are not happy with. At the same time, I would hate to see you become unhappy with something based on potentially incorrect information, or information that was provided in a way that was not totally clear (i.e. I think your appraiser should have been clearer with you about his ability to judge color with stones in a setting, and should have been clearer about the subjectivity/range in color grading and how him saying F&H is not actually different than your jewler saying G, in this circumstance, and clarity should have been graded with a loupe like GIA does, not a 40x microscope). Anyways, I really do think your ring is lovely. And if you find over time there is a color difference that bothers you between the sides, I think you can bring it up with your jewler in person and see what you can do.

I am curious, was your appraiser independent or did he sell diamonds (was he a jeweler who also appraised)?
 

geisha_gyrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
199
Dreamer_D|1305131864|2918616 said:
I am not expert with a loupe either, but I believe the definition of SI2 is that the inclusions are easily seen with a 10x loupe.

I am glad you feel better! In no way do I want to convince you to settle for something you are not happy with. At the same time, I would hate to see you become unhappy with something based on potentially incorrect information, or information that was provided in a way that was not totally clear (i.e. I think your appraiser should have been clearer with you about his ability to judge color with stones in a setting, and should have been clearer about the subjectivity/range in color grading and how him saying F&H is not actually different than your jewler saying G, in this circumstance, and clarity should have been graded with a loupe like GIA does, not a 40x microscope). Anyways, I really do think your ring is lovely. And if you find over time there is a color difference that bothers you between the sides, I think you can bring it up with your jewler in person and see what you can do.

I am curious, was your appraiser independent or did he sell diamonds (was he a jeweler who also appraised)?

He is an independent appraiser. I know never to take your jewelry to a jeweler. That's another reason why I find it hard for his assessment to be so far off from what the jeweler.
 
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