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Need help with this Asset Image

zitaowang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
7
So here I have the picture of a potential diamond I am about to purchase. I want to hear what the experts on PS think. Is it a good choice or should I check more options.




14546-0.jpg
14546.jpg

The specs are

1.56c G vs1 3x flr none. table 57% depth 60.3 crown angle 34 pav 40.8 lower half 80%
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
zitaowang|1448528680|3954350 said:
So here I have the picture of a potential diamond I am about to purchase. I want to hear what the experts on PS think. Is it a good choice or should I check more options.




14546-0.jpg
14546.jpg

The specs are

1.56c G vs1 3x flr none. table 57% depth 60.3 crown angle 34 pav 40.8 lower half 80%

It seems the arrows are fatter on the photograph over the ASET are they both of the same stone?
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
egemnoel|1448635425|3954650 said:
Have a look at the images of this 1.57 G VS1 and you can compare. This diamond below is super ideal and hard to find any better.

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/diamonds/HPD7437/?shop=yes

I find HPD and Crafted by Infinity overpriced, I don't find their optical precision as seen from the hearts superior, in this case it may even be inferior to this one at $2500 cheaper(one clarity grade less though). Both are likely to be eye clean.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3596856.htm?source=pricescope

But I must say the OP chose a what is called a 60/60 with thinner more splintery arrows and a larger table and likely it is not AGS graded.
Its probably cheaper.
 

zitaowang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
7
@sharonyanddave

This is the image vendor sent me. Maybe you are right.. But I have no way to make sure. But base on the specs is this a good stone to consider?
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,491
They certainly don't look like the same stone. I would check with the vendor.
 

egemnoel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
138
For the photos, yes, you bring up a point I also noticed. I inquired with High Performance Diamonds about this and am told that CBI is sold in live showrooms primarily – and those retailers don’t need images because they show the diamond in the view. As a result the photos are a kind of offhand “favor” for Wink Jones and HPD, the only one who uses them. As such, in addition to being humongous (4X as big as any other retailer) they are not post-processed and, frankly, are rather mediocre.

For me I purchased CBI without seeing them. But as I had every confidence in the vendor I had no reason to see them before I purchased them. I was also offered a full money back guarantee if the diamond was unsuitable.

But, I would encourage anyone to exercise use of the See It To Believe It program HPD offers. When seen in-person as they are normally sold, the diamond trumps any of the photos and are stunning. There are no issues in the hearts view or any other view, reliably.

As for overpriced. It depends on what you want. You get what you pay for. I have done much research, much viewing and much comparing. In my opinion there is nothing like CBI. So to me it’s more than fair value. Especially with the buyback guarantees Wink and HPD give, which are better than anyone else in the business.

When I get a chance I will show you why CBI are a truly respectable company to deal with and strive for perfection. The is based on my friend soon to be engaged was looking for a 1ct F VS2.
 

egemnoel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
138
My friend sent me this link and wanted my thoughts on this stone.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R100-5BNATT for 1ct F VS2 priced at $9,760

I looked at HPD and found this stone 0.99 F VS2

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/diamonds/HPD7767/?shop=yes priced at $7,705

The CBI/HPD is $2,055 CHEAPER. Now the question is why did CBI not make this a 1ct diamond and charge over 2k more!!!! Now this is value for money! I would love one of them actually to answer this question so I can understand myself but from my understanding if it was cut to a 1ct it would NOT meet CBI standards.
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
egemnoel|1448814976|3955278 said:
For the photos, yes, you bring up a point I also noticed. I inquired with High Performance Diamonds about this and am told that CBI is sold in live showrooms primarily – and those retailers don’t need images because they show the diamond in the view. As a result the photos are a kind of offhand “favor” for Wink Jones and HPD, the only one who uses them. As such, in addition to being humongous (4X as big as any other retailer) they are not post-processed and, frankly, are rather mediocre.

For me I purchased CBI without seeing them. But as I had every confidence in the vendor I had no reason to see them before I purchased them. I was also offered a full money back guarantee if the diamond was unsuitable.

But, I would encourage anyone to exercise use of the See It To Believe It program HPD offers. When seen in-person as they are normally sold, the diamond trumps any of the photos and are stunning. There are no issues in the hearts view or any other view, reliably.

As for overpriced. It depends on what you want. You get what you pay for. I have done much research, much viewing and much comparing. In my opinion there is nothing like CBI. So to me it’s more than fair value. Especially with the buyback guarantees Wink and HPD give, which are better than anyone else in the business.

When I get a chance I will show you why CBI are a truly respectable company to deal with and strive for perfection. The is based on my friend soon to be engaged was looking for a 1ct F VS2.

My point was the visual appearance to the wearer of the CBI diamonds is not likely to be any better than the other H&A vendors here yet the price is certainly at a premium to them. Optical symmetry is judged by the hearts images and the average CBI diamond has no more symmetrical hearts patterning than some of the other H&A vendors here. I am not referring to the quality of the photography of the images as I find them sufficient for most vendors who have invested in marketing and promoting the H&A properties of these "Superideals"

I am not sure you will ever 'prove' to me and self validate your purchase any further unless you have photographed a lineup of similar size and spec diamonds side by side including a CBI and other H&A vendors here like a WF ACA or a BGD Signature. As CBI is primarily a retail brand and retail stores have higher margins it comes as no surprise to me that it isn't as good a choice for value conscious online shoppers.

None of my argument contradicts my general impression that CBI rounds appear to be amongst the finest H&A rounds available backed by great after sales policies, I just find the value proposition to be weaker than other brands here.
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
egemnoel|1448816143|3955289 said:
http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/diamonds/HPD7767/?shop=yes priced at $7,705

The CBI/HPD is $2,055 CHEAPER. Now the question is why did CBI not make this a 1ct diamond and charge over 2k more!!!! Now this is value for money! I would love one of them actually to answer this question so I can understand myself but from my understanding if it was cut to a 1ct it would NOT meet CBI standards.

Interesting that you mention that diamond the hearts image is not what I would consider the finest example of optical symmetry and their "proprietary process"

http://www.infinity-diamonds.com/protected/uploaded_files/stones/7767/hearts800144665841099YtIJGHevAdHc8YA0qG.jpg

cbihearts.jpg

I would have thought they would nail optical symmetry to a very high standard given this marketing.

"Resultantly, Crafted By Infinity diamonds represent the strictest, most consistently cut high-performance diamond brand in the world."

"Flawless Cut Each Infinity boasts cut parameters rarer then D color. Rarer than FL clarity. Crafted with identical geometry, every Infinity is a blazing performance-twin to the next and the next.
 

egemnoel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
138
I am not referring to the quality of the photography of the images as I find them sufficient

That was my point above, they are not sufficient for comparison. The full-time internet sellers have professional photo staffs retaking and correcting tilt in images and reducing size-detail. It’s a focus for them, as they should since they make their livings online.

By contrast, CBI is not internet-focused. Their photos are an off-hand favour for HPD with less oversight. They're egregiously large and sometimes have tilt between lens and stage which distorts the pattern, as the one you posted does.

Here is an excerpt about CBI photography (from Prosumer Diamonds Vincent Chan). He help me select my first CBI stone and explained tilt to me in great detail.

camera-tilt-cbi-pd4ps.jpg

From the article:

"You can see how just 1 degree of tilt in any part of the photography setup (camera lens, body, tripod, table, floor) can create the above illusion. This means we cannot jump to conclusions regarding yaw just because we see some distortion. Please also note that if the setup is perfectly level, the only other thing that can cause this effect is tilt of the table facet. A 1-degree tilt will be caught by the lab symmetry grade, and as Infinity diamonds are all graded excellent symmetry by the AGS, the issue here is not a tilted table facet.

Apart from Diamond 1, all the diamonds in my sample seem to be affected by tilted photography. Although this isn’t particularly helpful to us discerning prosumers, it just takes a little more effort to recognise the effect of camera-tilt in photographs. If possible, you should always go and see these diamonds for yourself."

The highlighted part alludes to what I am saying. CBI is a showroom brand. Take any of their diamonds and look at it live, in the actual viewer-scope, in a jewellery showroom. 72dpi photos do not tell their story.

I am not defending this internet blind spot of CBI. Whether CBI or maybe Wink at HPD (since he sells them online) should hire a level of professional photography done to compete with the 100% internet sellers is a separate argument.

None of my argument contradicts my general impression that CBI rounds appear to be amongst the finest H&A rounds available backed by great after sales policies, I just find the value proposition to be weaker than other brands here.

Understood.

For me the fact that Wink and HPD offer both lifetime trade-up 100% and 80% cash buyback, a vote of confidence no one else offers, has significant value. I also like the fact that CBI's primary success takes place in live showrooms, not simply on the internet. Your mileage may vary, and that's fine. We don't need to agree on everything :angel:
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
egemnoel|1448915187|3955684 said:
By contrast, CBI is not internet-focused. Their photos are an off-hand favour for HPD with less oversight. They're egregiously large and sometimes have tilt between lens and stage which distorts the pattern, as the one you posted does.

You cannot prove this theory (the opposite is more likey see below) for the example we are discussing, and making assumptions based on photography and/or scan error is fraught with inaccuracy and misguided conclusions.

As you can see from the comparison below neither the image generated from the sarin scan nor the photographed ASET lead to the conclusion that this diamond has "superior optical symmetry" or "perfect geometry" and once again neither make this diamond a good example of the quality control for the CBI brand.

hpd7767heartscomparison.jpg

But that really isn't the point I was making. CBI diamonds in general appear to be equivalent to other H&A vendors here 'Not Superior' I don't think they are worse given different photo setups and resolutions.

I still do not find any evidence that their diamonds will have an appearance superior to the product from the specialized "H&A" cutting houses in Antwerp where most of the PS vendors source their H&A rounds from.

In absence of lining up different H&A diamonds versus several CBI diamonds I do not think it can be proven that they are superior and given how subtle the improvements are going from Near H&A to H&A I doubt most would even be able to discern those differences if there are any.

Any Novice consumer can see that they are more expensive which is why I don't recommend purchasing from them unless the price premium is not too high for any one particular stone versus a comparable.
 

spon88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
54
Tend to agree with "sharonyanddave" here. I loved the aftercare policies of HPD but couldn't justify paying $3k more for the specification of diamond I eventually chose - a "superior" H&A cut from another vendor of similar reputation. Technically the stones were all very similar as were the performance images etc. The pre-sales support was excellent from both parties but in the end I couldn't justify the $3k for a diamond I'm unlikely to want to sell back.

I suppose my conclusion (albeit inexperienced) is that based on the information available, the two or three top vendors for H&A all seem to offer very similar performance - so then I guess price has to swing the decision? I would need a bunch more data to prove that any of the top guys are any better than the others. They all seem to offer exceptional diamonds, albeit some are a little bit cheaper.

Thanks
 

egemnoel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
138
No problem guys. I have purchased two CBI-diamonds in the past year, and they perform exactly as described to me by the nice people of CBI. In fact, they perform even better than my expectations.

When researching my purchases, I understood the consensus to be that CBI is the absolute utmost in performance of round brilliants. Expecting that, my expectations have been exceeded and with the larger diamond second time around was stunning!

You may wish to denounce the notion based upon analysis of pictures 4 times the size of other premium-vendors. And, as consumers with low post counts, you probably don’t yet realise that diamond-scanners have built-in error. They frequently misrepresent. So you're going backwards by posting that.

Again I am not sure why you’re so adamant. I’m a capable guy with experience… It’s like you’re trying to say you can pleasure my wife better than I can, using some scans and images to “prove” it to me. Sorry, but I prefer my on-hand-experience over any online-jargon.
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
egemnoel|1449090595|3956538 said:
No problem guys. I have purchased two CBI-diamonds in the past year, and they perform exactly as described to me by the nice people of CBI. In fact, they perform even better than my expectations.

When researching my purchases, I understood the consensus to be that CBI is the absolute utmost in performance of round brilliants. Expecting that, my expectations have been exceeded and with the larger diamond second time around was stunning!

There has never been a "consensus" on which PS H&A round vendor has the 'best' diamonds. Paul Slegers postulated in 2010 his process and diamonds were better due to ' facet crispness' but couldn't give one shred of visual evidence.https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/h-a-pattern-vs-crispness-t146607-60.html I still can't see 'crispness' with current imaging technology, that argument failed and along with it the superiority of CBI diamonds to the PS regulars and other trade. Google "Paul Slegers crispness and Pricescope" and you can find a few threads.

As for Vincent Chan and Prosumer Diamonds its a "Diamond Information Site" with affiliate links. I think he has been gone from posting here years ago(banned?). That site is low traffic and his articles don't seem to be peer reviewed or put to any level of scrutiny by the public or an editor. For those reasons and the errors I see in many of his articles, some of them invalidating his theses completely, I would caution against using his site as an educational reference.

Enjoy your two diamonds I am sure they are stunners and it may not matter to you that there is a good chance you could have gotten the same visually indistinguishable diamond for 10 - 25% less. Shopping in a B&M in addition to strong buyback and tradeup policies is worth the premium to some.

I doubt you had a chance to view a side by side of a CBI with an ACA or a BGD Signature it might change your 'Experienced opinion'. Much like if you were given the choice of a HOF versus an CBI you would surely choose the cheaper CBI.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Look. I am not a round person. And I know enough about diamonds to be able to find good deals.

I would LOVE a CBI. And I would pay a premium for it if I had the budget. I've also owned BGD Signature stones, which also command a premium.


If you love it and FEEL you got a good value that's what matters.
 

spon88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
54
Hi,

Over the last few months I've been privileged to see "super ideal" diamonds from all of the main vendors mentioned in this thread under the guidance of an experienced UK gemologist. As well as looking at the data and various images etc, we were also able to check under microscope and conduct an informal "user" test at his store. All the stones were stunning and we could not place any one of them above the others. This is what guides my decision to purchase based on price/service if all of the other "super ideal" parameters are in place.

I know that PS users have their favourite (excuse UK spelling) "super ideal" vendors but is it right to claim that any of them are better than the others? As far as I can see, there is no hard data on here or elsewhere which supports this. The posts about marginal characteristics of virtual facets etc etc are all fascinating, but none of them are really data driven if we're being honest. Certainly nothing to enable a "data driven" consumer to differentiate.

My main conclusions in my fascinating foray into the world of diamonds over the last couple of months are a) UK purchasers get a better deal and choice from US vendors b) product from the top 3 or 4 US "super ideal" vendors is generally top notch and if you do your homework you can get a great stone from any of them c) some are cheaper than others d) there is a lot of creative marketing speak in the world of diamonds as with lots of other products! Much of it is interesting but does not provide sufficient data (or indeed any!) on which to base decisions.

Just my 2 pence (cents?) worth.....

Cheers
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,859
spon88|1449134763|3956816 said:
Hi,

Over the last few months I've been privileged to see "super ideal" diamonds from all of the main vendors mentioned in this thread under the guidance of an experienced UK gemologist. As well as looking at the data and various images etc, we were also able to check under microscope and conduct an informal "user" test at his store. All the stones were stunning and we could not place any one of them above the others. This is what guides my decision to purchase based on price/service if all of the other "super ideal" parameters are in place.

Just my 2 pence (cents?) worth.....

Cheers

Hello Spon88,

I read your post this morning and I wondered. I happen to know exactly which CBI-diamond has been sent to the UK, who showed it where and what happened to that diamond afterwards. Thus, your post raised a question-mark with me.

This morning, I have checked and double-checked what I might have missed. To no avail.

Can you please enlighten me which specific CraftedByInfinity-diamond you have viewed in the circumstances described in your post. As far as my records show, not one CBI-diamond could have been in that comparison. I would love to know though which diamond escaped from my control, as I will have to reinforce security-measures considering your story.

Live long,
 

spon88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
54
Hello Paul,

Thank you for contributing. Some of the diamonds were imported, others purchased in the US by a friend of the dealer and included in the comparison for interest's sake. So I don't think you have any concerns about security hopefully.

Thanks
 
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