Need help with Sapphires

[londonblue]

hello,

I''m in the process of building an ering for the love of my life
I''ve read just about every old thread on here about sapphires and rings but am always surprised by hot few hits always turn up related to sapphires and rings.

Anyway, we both like sapphires and have been admiring the sapphires that are listed on cherrypicked for the past few years or so. But it seems that despite all my research I still have many questions I was hoping some of you could help me out with.

She''s afraid that the durability of a sapphire doesn''t compare to a diamond and will not wear well. One of her friends wanted to get a emerald cut sapphire for her ring, but was told by the jewelry store that the cut has a great risk of chipping and persuaded her friend to get an oval shape instead.
Another friend of hers bought a sapphire ring at an antiques shop only to have it scratched up, I believe it was the table most probably. She brought it back in for them to repolish it which they did but told her that because it was a sapphire it would no doubt happen again and be easily scratched up. She upgraded her ring to an antique diamond ring instead at the shop. So my gf has a perception that sapphires are easily scratched by everyday wear, is that the case? I personally think it''s just the shops looking to make a larger profit as I''ve never been to impressed by the knowledge of most jewelry store salespersons.

I''ve also told her that sapphires are the second hardest natural mineral after diamonds, and although diamonds are 4 times harder, the ones that are between 9 and 10 on moh''s scale are manmade diamond simulants. While sapphires may scratch, don''t diamonds chip more easily due to their perfect cleavage?

We both really like sapphires, but it''s mostly just a durability issue. She''d also like to never have to take her ring off although I worry that that seems like an unneccesary risk - ie. stone pops out in the shower, washes down the sink, and other wear and tear on the ring. Do most people wear their rings this way? We were thinking about getting a nice wedding ring such as an sapphire/diamond eternity ring for everyday wear.


About the actual sapphires, we both drool regularly at the sapphires posted to cherrypicked. We''re looking for a cushion cut sapphire. She has small fingers, with a ring size less than 5, although we still haven''t determined around what mm x mm would work well yet.

The only current cushion on CP is the following:
http://www.cherrypicked.com/Gallery/Score.aspx?ItemID=1893
is the shallow depth due to the stone being a bit darker?

However I really like the intensity of the blues of the Ceylon sapphires, eg:
http://www.cherrypicked.com/Gallery/Score.aspx?ItemID=1673

But I don''t really understand the difference between the 2, especially given that the 1st one has a higher rarity rating, and both have the same pedigree (I assume that''s due to the certificates?). How much of a premium is associated with a Celyon sapphire? Does it make that much of a difference? It''s just that all the sapphires that have a vivid, intense blue are listed as Ceylon.

And what are the difference with those sapphires compared to these at The Natural Sapphire? Is it the cut? the faceting? Or is it the color, sparkle and something you have to see in person?
Item ID: B881, B880, B761, B735

We''re thinking about mounting the stone solitaire style, on mounts similar to those on
www.antiqueengagementrings.com or just something with scrollwork similar to the rings on www.renaissanceplatinum.com

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[colorchange]

Hi,

There is no durability issue with sapphires, on average, we can say that one repolish every 15 years is much more than what is needed for a ring worn permanently. The chances iare that your bride will wear her ring her whole life without a single repolish.
Indeed a sapphire will scratch more easily but almost never chip unlike a diamond.
In case you want to wear it everyday a "sertis clos" (I guess "box set" in english) is what you need, there will be no issue in wearing it permanently.

About choosing the stone, just take very long time to choose it''s extremely hard to choose the good sapphire !

 

[PrecisionGem]

Other than a diamond, there are not too many other things on this earth that can scratch a sapphire.
My wife has a tourmaline e-ring, set up rather high actually, and has no scratches or chips on it.

 

[valeria101]

IMO, the claims of those sellers (for the emerald cut sapphire etc.) had something to do with their stock.

Yes, they wear - like any bit of jewelery does. Over a life time of wear, you may find the girdle and crown of diamonds chipped and the crown of sapphires ''dulled''. This is quite apparent in estate rings - the process is so slow though, that wearers just get used to it. And this is why you see such worn rings in estate sales to begin with. There would be none if the owners would either #1. never wear diamond and sapphire engagement rings every day or #2 would have taken care to have them professionally restored every decade or so.

All in all, IMO having a sapphire ring is super cool. A reasonable setting would do some good (i.e not an inch high four prong ''stone holder''), but there is no need for some barricade-style contraption. There are allot fewer fine sapphire than acceptable diamonds and the ratio of sapphire specialists / diamond specialists among jewelry shops follows that.

In the end... don''t ask about sapphires (durability, quality, advice in general) at a shop that either doesn''t have a variety to offer or wants to sell you diamonds instead.

 

[bar01]

Nothing to add to the great advice about durability - nothing for you to worry about.

There is some merit to comparing different sapphires within cherrypicked since I have found the cherry scores to be reasonably reliable. However, it is impossible to then compare these to ones from other companies like the natural sapphire company – who provides different and less detailed descriptions of their gems. Not to say that the natural sapphire company does not carry ones as good as cherry.

I like the cherrypicked item 1893. Nice ratings. I don’t think it is cut shallow at all – but rather has a very desirable cut depth for a sapphire.
Ultimately you are going to need to see these in person – and you’re probably going to also need the help of a professional appraiser to help you decide.

I also think you will benefit from personal phone conversations with Michael Arnstein at Natural, and Richard Orbach at cherrypicked. They know their stuff and are trustworthy.

Lastly my guess is most of these sapphires are going to be either Sri lankan (Ceylon) or Madagascar - but don't get hung up on origin unless someone is trying to charge you a premium for the origin like Burma.

 

[colorchange]

There are some very valuable ones on both !

Indeed rating is not so important, when a private customer, you justr have to trust the pricing is right and choose the one you like the most !

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/14/2006 10:49:44 AM
Author: colorchange
There are some very valuable ones on both !

Indeed rating is not so important, when a private customer, you justr have to trust the pricing is right and choose the one you like the most !

Trust - but verify. Use a good independent appraiser/lab when dealing with highend untreated sapphires.

 

[londonblue]

great, nice to know that durability shouldn''t be an issue with sapphires

So I''m wondering then what is the likelihood of my seeing a comparable stone to cherrypicked''s #1893 in person at a store, say at the SF Jewelry Mart or from a gemstone vendor at a local gem or jewelry fair? It does seem that this particular sapphire certainly has the numbers, but it seems daunting to have to compare it to sapphires when you can''t have every single one side by side.

What questions should I ask vendors about a potential sapphire? Is it correct that "cushion cut" generally refers to the shape of the stone when seen from the top, while the gem itself may sport a variety of faceting? I don''t know if it''s possible to find a type of faceting that balances both color and sparkle for cushion cut sapphires.

Thus far, most of the sapphires I''ve seen at local gem shows have not been all too exciting, many being very low on saturation and color, with this grey tinge. Others have obvious zoning issues, and I''m never sure if I''m looking at a window in the cut or just not have enough experience in what a window looks like. The last problem is finding cushion shapes to begin with out there in the vasy sea of rounds!

Finally, is it even worth the trouble of looking for sapphires at shows? Or is there a place that''s actually worth going to where I can see some comparable stones in person?

thanks!

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/15/2006 12:52:05 AM
Author: londonblue



So I'm wondering then what is the likelihood of my seeing a comparable stone to cherrypicked's #1893 in person at a store, say at the SF Jewelry Mart or from a gemstone vendor at a local gem or jewelry fair?



Finally, is it even worth the trouble of looking for sapphires at shows? Or is there a place that's actually worth going to where I can see some comparable stones in person?



thanks!

When you are dealing with one of cherry's "Excellent +" (3 and half cherry) sapphires - it is highly unlikely that most people (and many typical Jewelers) will have seen a better looking sapphire in their lifetimes - and untreated ? Probably never.

You are going to be wasting you time at jewelry marts and the like - at this level of quality. Find some high end stores (like Tiffanys) and you may be able to find some treated sapphires that approach this quality of color.

 

[londonblue]

I really like both of these sapphires, and had admired #1673 for quite a while before it sold

#1893 (left) costs $2400/ct while #1673 (right) was about $1000/ct

What is it that puts one at a 2.4x premium over the other?
Is part of it due to the AGTA certificate? Is #1893 that much cleaner and better in all aspects that much than #1673? Is the price scale exponential as you go up in quality?


the more i look at all the websites, the more confused i seem to get

 

[londonblue]

comp chart

 

[bar01]

It is amazing how much the little bits add up - a little better clarity, a little better color, and yes an AGTA cert - will add to cost per ct. In some cases you are seeing a jump over the line from fine to excellent ranges. What is the difference between a B plus and an A minus? Also I knowRichard Orbach mentioned he is trying to decide how to adjust to significant price increases for fine untreated sapphires. Not sure how that applies to new items vs old items he may have in stock.

I will also mention a few things to you that have been mentioned before -

1) It is what you see and like the matters. Having one, two or more gems sent for your final review and selection is not unheard of.

2) What is it worth ($$/ct)? Well I would say you need a professional appraiser to tell you that. Whether you buy something that is $1000 ct - or $2500/ct - you need to confirm that that is a fair price before you purchase and later insurance needs.

We are focusing Cherrypicked at the moment and I have bought from them and recommend them, but do keep in mind other fine dealers like naturalsapphire, Richard Wise, wildfish, wink, and others often mentioned here on PS. Also - what you see on their websites is not all they can get for you if you. Talk to them on the phone and try to explain your wants - and budgets.