Need help with boundaries with sister in law

[Buttercookies]

My husband has four older sisters. All are great, loving, and supportive except for the youngest one. She is what I would call the know-it-all-SIL who is also a nagging negative Nancy. Her gripe is basically on our decision to have more than two kids. To be exact, My husband and I decided to have three children consecutively because we are older parents and chance of down syndrome is 1/20 after 35 yo. We both want a big family which I know is very anti-culture right now. But I want my home to be filled with children. My heart melt when I see the three of them playing together with the baby just laughing and laughing watching his older sisters.

Whenever our extended family get together, I would often hear SIL complaining to my husband how she doesn’t understand why we don’t stop at 2 kids (like her) and that she sees that we cannot handle the 3 currently as it is. She watches me as I chase my 3 kids around during the family gathering. I mean my kids go nuts at gathering. She complain my 3 yo doesn’t know her alphabets (she knows about half for a kid not in preschool yet). I hear this EVERY SINGLE TIME. This time she went as far as saying that she doesn’t understand why we don’t get that having sex means more kids and that’s why we have three consecutively. Thank god I was not there to hear that today because I would have lose my shit. This SIL is a nut case. If she’s not complaining about our number of children, then she would brag about her financial investment and that we should do the same. Oh and she also offer medical advice to us, and both of us are MDs.

I mean, at this point, I feel I cannot be politically nice anymore but I do not want cause family drama.

What would you do? Do you have similar stories?

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Ugh. I know similar situations. I have found that boundaries are to be set in order to protect your sanity and your children. The children hear those harmful comments and it stings. Don't tolerate this. The best way is to be polite and firm and stand your ground. Don't explain. Don't justify (like, understandably so (!!), you do when you explain your 3y/o does know the alphabet). It's not her children, not her marriage, not her business.

I'd say something along the lines of: " stop commenting on my life choices and especially on my children"

I'm not a native speaker/don't know the regular communication style in your family, so pleased adapt the exact wording.

IMHO this the first topic to address. This is also the trickier one, since in some families other family members might feel she's not off limits commenting (I personally do. But many in the older generation might feel differently). So I'd not risk any discussion/drama whatsoever.


And regarding the more obviously off limits topic (reproduction) if you think this would give YOU relief, be more on the witty side: " I'd appreciate if it could refrain from discussing our s*X life - or anyone's for that matter.

But one thing I've learned: people like that are bullies & they don't just stop. They need you to set firm boundaries. Unfortunately they also love drama. It's usually best to not give them any. If they know they cannot trample down your boundaries and they cannot get any drama to feed on they usually move on.
Talk about it with your husband too, so he's on the same page and acts as one united front (that'd be a typical next step of her: trying to get your husband to agree with any of the nonsense she said (even if he'd just say : hmm hmm in order to get out of the convo, she might use that "look, my brother even agrees")and then feasting on any drama between the two of you).

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Oh poor you
I don't know why some people have to be so rude

actually i do
on some level you have some thing she wishes she had
it might not necessarily be 3 kiddies but its something

How would your husband feel if you just told her to F off !

Do you still have a MIL & FIL.?

Doesn't any one else notice her bi*ching ?

 

[kenny]

What would I do?
I would do what I HAVE done in my life, divorce the @ssholes in the family.
Permanently end the relationship.
Blood? Schmud!

Do not attend any event that she is attending.
Delete her phone number from your contacts and block her phone number and emails.
Tell the rest of the family this is not open to discussion.
If they balk tell em to mind their own business.

Assert yourself.

Keep your door locked and identify who's knocking before opening the door.
If it's her don't even answer or respond to her voice.
If she causes a scene, call the cops.
If she continues to be a problem get a restraining order.

Why is it so many people treat family members worse than strangers?
A life it too short for it to include sh!tty people.

Oh and tell her that HER parents had one too many kids.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Im Inclined to agree with Kenny

 

[missy]

I am sorry you have to deal with this and yes I can relate. Fortunately that is far behind us now but yes we have a busy body nosy and not nice SIL. Maybe a little different than your situation.

Our SIL is a mean girl. When Greg and I were dating in the 90s she didn't understand the concept of boundaries. She and her husband (Greg's brother) live in a different state but that didn't stop her from writing to Greg, calling Greg and just otherwise making a nuisance of herself. Telling Greg we shouldn't get married because we didn't want children. LOL. That's right. If you don't have children there's no need for marriage don't you know? Of course that wasn't the real reason she didn't want us to get married. Lots behind that. One word-jealousy.

It's a long story and one I will spare you from but suffice to say I put my foot down (we were dating at the time) and said the relationship is inappropriate and I won't put put with her nonsense. So Greg explained to her it was none of her business and long story short she doesn't bother us anymore. We really don't have much of a relationship however but that works for us.

She was (is) toxic and there really was no way to have a good relationship with someone who is toxic through and through so I chose the alternative. Sometimes you cannot fix things. I am not saying that is the case for you. But it certainly was the case for us. And we are so much happier without her in our life.

Greg has a great relationship with his brother (the husband of the SIL). But it probably doesn't hurt that his brother and his wife don't have a good marriage at all. That was a big part of the problem. She was jealous of the relationship Greg and I had. I have proof in a long letter she wrote him while we were dating. Who does that? Anyway so much better off without her in our life. We still see the brother and the kids on a regular basis. But without the SIL. What a huge relief.

To make it clear it took me a while to put my foot down. I kept giving her chance after chance. I didn't want to do what we had to end up doing. We had no choice. We gave her many opportunities to change her toxic behavior towards us. She just couldn't or didn't want to. Either way it was unacceptable behavior and we weren't going to let her continue.

Getting back to your situation I think your husband needs to have a heart to heart talk with his sister. I mean if you think you can help with that talk great but otherwise I would leave it to him. It's his sister. I would have him lay down the rules and explain not only is it inappropriate for her to talk about your number of children and none of her darn business your sex life is also none of her business. So inappropriate. I would not put up with her BS and shi* talk. I just wouldn't.

Life is too short and precious to deal with toxic behavior. If she cannot stop her poor behavior and bad manners I would not continue any relationship with her. But that is me and you have to decide what is best for you and the kids. But I would 100% make it clear you will not put up with her bad behavior any more.

One big concern I would have is what happens when the kids get older and understand what she is saying? No. Just NO. I am very sorry you are dealing with this and hope you find a satisfactory resolution soon.

 

[tyty333]

Sorry that you are having to deal with someone like this. You've received some good advice in the above post. I would have your
brother talk to her and basically say that your family (you, DH, and kids) are off-limits. That her unsolicited advice is not wanted
and has no impact on your family. Then you need to come up with a short "saying" to get the point across
every time she "tests the waters". Rinse, repeat...till she gets bored with it and moves on to some other victim .

Something like...

- You do you, we'll do us.
- Your unsolicited advice has no bearing on our family.

I think you and your DH need to keep repeating whichever phrase you use so that she knows that you know what she's up to
and that she will no longer get a rise out of you.

Good luck!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

This is your brother’s sibling so IMO he needs to have a talk with her and set her straight. He needs to make it clear that this behavior from her will not be tolerated anymore. Some SIL (like mine) do not understand that when a brother marries, there is a new dynamic and this can cause jealousy and serious testing of boundaries.

I’ve had my share of problems with my husband’s sister and our last interaction she said some awful things about me, mind you they were never said TO me despite what she told my husband. She completely denied one thing he confronted her with saying (as she was screaming at him like a maniac on our front lawn) and then once she was told our Ring doorbell recorded it, she flew into a rage about how we violated her privacy and she didn’t remember saying it. She also crossed a boundary several times with the kids, telling our seven year old things that go directly against our values, I have put up with a lot but this is the line in the sand for us. She seems to have major problems and has a serious issues with me but they are her issues to resolve.

Bottom line is I think if you and your husband present a united front and make it clear her behavior is unacceptable, it will probably stop. She keeps doing it because she keeps getting away with it.

 

[Ally T]

@Buttercookies I am so sorry to hear you have these awful issues with your SIL. She has gone far too far.

You have some fabulous advise here, so i would take away from all of it & head her off. She is poison & your children do NOT need to be exposed to that.

 

[lulu_ma]

Hi @Buttercookies I'm sorry that you are going through this. Relatives can be SO annoying.

Is your SIL like this with everyone in the family? Is she married with kids of her own? Is she generally an unhappy person?

 

[telephone89]

Why hasnt your husband said anything to her when she complains to him? IMO its his family, so he deals with it. As soon as she starts complaining he needs to shut her down "What a rude thing to say, please dont comment on our family any more." "We are perfectly happy with our choices, if you can't be then you should keep quiet." etc.

 

[Karl_K]

Why hasnt your husband said anything to her when she complains to him? IMO its his family, so he deals with it. As soon as she starts complaining he needs to shut her down "What a rude thing to say, please dont comment on our family any more." "We are perfectly happy with our choices, if you can't be then you should keep quiet." etc.

This
His family, so his job to deal with it.

 

[Austina]

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. The bottom line here is it’s nobody’s business but yours how many children you chose to have. Your SIL’s comments are unsolicited, and are therefore irrelevant to you. If you and your DH are unable to make her understand this, then the only way forward is to exclude her from your life.

I had this in reverse, we have one child, and the number of comments we got about me being selfish because I was denying my child a sibling, that he would grow up to be a spoilt brat because he was an only child, that I was denying my DH the chance to have other children etc., and this was from my so called family! Needless to say, they are not in our lives, and we don’t miss them.

 

[Lookinagain]

How does your SIL even know that you are planning on having another child? And how does she even know that it will actually happen? Maybe I'm reading your post wrong but it sounds like you have 3 already and are planning on trying for number 4. So that could or could not happen, no one ever really knows. In that case I'd just tell her something snippy like "when I ask you to pay for their college, then I'll listen to your complaints, but until then, mind your own business".

 

[Demon]

This time she went as far as saying that she doesn’t understand why we don’t get that having sex means more kids and that’s why we have three consecutively.

I think I'd be tempted to ask her if she's telling you that she and her husband don't have sex anymore, since they only have 2 kids.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I don't understand why people have to be so rude and unkind in the first place but as ive said before the problem is something that's not right in her life, not yours

 

[Bron357]

She isn’t going to change, ever. Nothing you say or DH says will change her. She lives and thrives on this.
What can change is your attitude to her.
She is a Nancy know it all, a Karen my way or the highway, a jealous jelly Nelly and a Winifred whiner.
Breathe and smile.
Smile again and again.
You don’t need to explain or defend your family choices, to her or to anyone, not her business.
Will this fact stop her? Nope.
When you accept that the problem is in her, and any other family members that condone or encourage this behaviour, it will stop irritating you.
Feel sorry for her, sorry that she is so negative, sorry that she cant mind her own business and sorry for her being an unattractive package of Nancy, Karen, Nelly and Winifred.
You can’t “put her in her place”, that will cause “war” and is exactly what she hopes to provoke.
So you just ignore her, just smile and nod your head and carry on as if she doesn’t exist. She will probably escalate her behaviour, looking for the reaction she needs, refrain, feel sorry for her, smile and smile again.
Then change the subject by talking to someone else.
You can’t win.
You just don’t play the game.

 

[seaurchin]

So sorry. Been there, done that. I think family bullying is hard for normal people to even understand, so we're at a disadvantage in handling it. He's probably used to her treating him like crap and of course you wanted to get along with his family. But then there comes a point where enough's enough.

Personally, I think it is likely a symptom of a larger family dysfunction. For ex, if husband was the scapegoat as children and SIL was the golden child with their parents. It sounds like she's loaded with anger and competitiveness so I'd watch your back. She may try to take it beyond hissing insults and demeaning "advice" at you.

Looking back, I would have done a short bout of therapy before tackling it. To get insight into the motivations and family system, and a solid strategy for ending it. I think it would have been easier on us that way and we'd have been better prepared for the fall out.

We got wide-eyed denial and accusations that we were crazy, overly sensitive, jealous, etc. Then they try to get others involved or others try to involve themselves. It ended with cutting ties with them and others.

So I think it is deeper pathology than it appears, or it was in our case anyway. Normal people don't repeatedly feel the need to treat their supposed loved ones abusively. And the other family members in a healthier family wouldn't just sit there and watch with regular expressions on their faces like unprovoked insults are normal. It's sick. Now our family is small but lovely. Good luck.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Buttercookies I'm not sure I have any good advice for you, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're going through this. It should be an immensely happy time in your life. Of course, it's no one's business how many children you and your husband choose to have (or when). You're both doctors (!), and I assume financially sound, so it's not like that is an issue and you're being irresponsible. Please enjoy your babies and ignore Debbie Downer. She's either nuts, as you said, or miserable and wants you to be too. Some women aren't blessed with the proper timing and a stable partner to have children (which they desperately want). You were, and that's a beautiful thing!

 

[Begonia]

Okay I've read enough. I'm paying that btch a visit. Leave it with me.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Okay I've read enough. I'm paying that btch a visit. Leave it with me.

So it's not just me who feels oddly protective of other PSers?! A seller was horrid to a member the other day, and I wanted blood.

 

[LilAlex]

That's bad. I suspect she feels inferior in some (or every way) and this is her defense mechanism for her insecurity -- especially vs. a two-physician couple.

I think you should agree with everything she says. "You are so right!" "Thinking of getting rid of one or two soon." "How did you know exactly how many kids to have, and when to stop having sex with your husband?"

It's hard to separate yourself from one part of an otherwise loving family because then you get caught up in all their drama. "If x is going, then I'm not going." We have some toxic family members and the best revenge is to ignore them and live your (happy) life. Trust me -- nothing will agitate them more than your happiness and their inability to crush it.

 

[Autumn in New England]

That's bad. I suspect she feels inferior in some (or every way) and this is her defense mechanism for her insecurity -- especially vs. a two-physician couple.

I think you should agree with everything she says. "You are so right!" "Thinking of getting rid of one or two soon." "How did you know exactly how many kids to have, and when to stop having sex with your husband?"

It's hard to separate yourself from one part of an otherwise loving family because then you get caught up in all their drama. "If x is going, then I'm not going." We have some toxic family members and the best revenge is to ignore them and live your (happy) life. Trust me -- nothing will agitate them more than your happiness and their inability to crush it.

I agree in all respects!!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I understand how that SIL grates at you. I try to tackle problems like this by being calm about them. I would calmly ask a question of her to put her on the defensive rather than yourself. I would ask her why she keeps asking the same question(s). You have told her over and over again you and your husband want a large family. You feel no need to report this to her each time you see her. Just say , "please stop". Then look seriously at her and ask her if everything is alright with her. Hey, her husband may want another child and is telling her that.

I do agree that your first line of defense should be your husband talking to her. . She is used to being able to say what she wants. Now is the time to stop her or change that. They are no longer kids who say what they want. She has to become a grown-up.

I don't know if she is toxic or not. I would go my route first and then see her response.

It might work. Hold your ground. She is over-stepping.

Annette

 

[Elizabeth35]

I am on the side of not causing a huge family rift that will deny your kids from seeing the extended family--that would be a loss for all of you.
We all have annoying family members. Sometimes the only thing under our control is how much we let it bother us or how we react.
I agree with first having your husband speak with her. That is her 'warning'.
I would then firmly deal with anything she says directly to her face.
Simply say that her comments are unwelcome and you expect them to stop.
I have found that if you are direct, and tell people what you will not tolerate, many times they will back down.
She seems to be someone who is stirring the pot and simply not used to someone telling her that her comments are not acceptable.
Worst case scenario, after your husband explains boundaries, and you re-inforce as comments happen---maybe simply pack up and leave a family gathering. Politely thank everyone but leave, explaining that you are not willing to be listen to such nonsense.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

It might also be worth seeing if you can get other family members as well to help shut that behavior down. Then hopefully over time, your SIL will lose more and more of her audience. It may not stop her completely cuz she sounds cray. But at least it can help you feel better about the situation!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Everytime i open this thread i think
is this mean girl SIL still causing trouble ?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Like a few others have mentioned, she is who she is. It's not about you at all. Ignore ignore ignore or if you don't feel like ignoring you should just troll her.

Repeatedly tell her you are trying for ten kids. Let her hit the roof and work herself up with it.

I used to do that all the time with my parents. They'd hassle my to get rid of my dogs so I'd tell them yup I'm getting rid of my dogs. I just need to sell some investments first to make a $50,000 donation to each charity that I'm planning to dump the dogs on.

Parents: Omg you can't do that. Drama drama drama

Parents: You have a bad married blah blah blah (out of nowhere)

Me: oh yes he's dreadfully toxic. I'm planning on divorcing him. I've met a lovely artist fellow who plays the harp and paints. I can't wait to get rid of hubby. He never understood me you know? I'm going to give him full custody and explore my life with Frederick the artist.

Parents: OMG you can't do that blah blah blah *meltdown*

It got really hilarious!!!

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Like a few others have mentioned, she is who she is. It's not about you at all. Ignore ignore ignore or if you don't feel like ignoring you should just troll her.

Repeatedly tell her you are trying for ten kids. Let her hit the roof and work herself up with it.

I used to do that all the time with my parents. They'd hassle my to get rid of my dogs so I'd tell them yup I'm getting rid of my dogs. I just need to sell some investments first to make a $50,000 donation to each charity that I'm planning to dump the dogs on.

Parents: Omg you can't do that. Drama drama drama

Parents: You have a bad married blah blah blah (out of nowhere)

Me: oh yes he's dreadfully toxic. I'm planning on divorcing him. I've met a lovely artist fellow who plays the harp and paints. I can't wait to get rid of hubby. He never understood me you know? I'm going to give him full custody and explore my life with Frederick the artist.

Parents: OMG you can't do that blah blah blah *meltdown*

It got really hilarious!!!

I've tried that with my parents. Unfortunately it totally backfired cuz they believed most of if
not everything I said. Guess they really thought I'm just that crazy?!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Like a few others have mentioned, she is who she is. It's not about you at all. Ignore ignore ignore or if you don't feel like ignoring you should just troll her.

Repeatedly tell her you are trying for ten kids. Let her hit the roof and work herself up with it.

I used to do that all the time with my parents. They'd hassle my to get rid of my dogs so I'd tell them yup I'm getting rid of my dogs. I just need to sell some investments first to make a $50,000 donation to each charity that I'm planning to dump the dogs on.

Parents: Omg you can't do that. Drama drama drama

Parents: You have a bad married blah blah blah (out of nowhere)

Me: oh yes he's dreadfully toxic. I'm planning on divorcing him. I've met a lovely artist fellow who plays the harp and paints. I can't wait to get rid of hubby. He never understood me you know? I'm going to give him full custody and explore my life with Frederick the artist.

Parents: OMG you can't do that blah blah blah *meltdown*

It got really hilarious!!!

You have such a positive fun outlook on life
You must have so much fun in your house