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Need help with antique ring

Discussion in 'Jewelry Pieces' started by reelmovies03, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. reelmovies03
    Rough_Rock

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    by reelmovies03 » Nov 24, 2018
    Acquired this ring from an antique shop. Did some research online but found nothing.
    From what I can tell it says "P.J. 583" with a symbol on top and two samurai heads beside. Note that the markings are on the outside of the band.
    Can anyone tell me what roughly how old it is and what the markings mean?
    IMG_4720-2.jpg IMG_4705-2.jpg
    IMG_4712-2.jpg IMG_4718-2.jpg
    IMG_4728-2.jpg
     
  2. Allgems
    Rough_Rock

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    by Allgems » Nov 25, 2018
    Hi, which country did you buy this ring from? Is it possible it is from Poland? In Poland, a knight (not a samurai) means it is gold. 583 is 14 karat gold (it seems usually 14k is 585 but in some countries at some periods it is/was 853). That letter "crossed L" on the top of the knight, is one of the Polish letters of the alphabet and denotes a city where it was hallmarked, in this case Lodz (K would be for Krakow, W for Warsaw, P for Poznan etc.) This is for the primary mark.

    The second head of a knight, without any additional details, is a secondary/supplementary mark, which is used to provide information about what metal are additional elements of the jewelry made from, in your case maybe additional elements of the ring are those milligrained sides.

    No idea what P.J means, maybe initials of the maker, just a guess.

    I couldn't find any information in English, maybe you can just compare pictures in those links
    Here is the current hallamarking law
    http://swiatzlota.pl/zloto-proba-cecha
    And here old hallmarks
    http://www.oup.waw.pl/p,103,dawne-cechy-probiercze

    Just from the information in those links I would guess the ring could be from somewhere between 1986-1996 (in 1997 Poland switched to 14k gold 585 instead of 583, and before 1986 14k/583 gold was denoted as "3".
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  3. Bron357
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Bron357 » Nov 25, 2018
    The head or male workers head with hat hallmark is Russian more correctly the Soviet Union between 1927 and 1959.
    The 583 is the gold assay which is approx 14kt gold.
    The letters would be the makers mark.
    Did they say what the gem was? I’m thinking it’s a Tsavorsite garnet.
     
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  4. reelmovies03
    Rough_Rock

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    by reelmovies03 » Nov 25, 2018
    Thanks for your input Allgems. I bought this ring in Toronto.
    The seller estimated it was from Japan (which is why we thought the heads were samurais) sometime in the 1940's.

    Based on the research you provided, what the seller told me is far from the truth. What do you suggest I do?
     
  5. reelmovies03
    Rough_Rock

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    by reelmovies03 » Nov 25, 2018
    Thanks for your input Bron357. They said the gem was a green sapphire, however, they made it clear that the gem wasn't antique, it's new. The original gem was fake and they replaced it.

    Do you have any links or reference to support your estimate of the ring being from the Soviet Union between 1927-1959? The more information I have would be much appreciated.
     
  6. Allgems
    Rough_Rock

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    by Allgems » Nov 25, 2018
    Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I suppose the seller didn't really know. When you look at that character "crossed capital L" on top of 583 it looks a bit like Chinese and Japanese character representing "7". So perhaps this combined with the head that does look like samurai made the seller think it could be Japanese. If you bought it hoping for it to be Japanese, if you paid higher price because of that, you can go back to the seller and show them the links with hallmarks.

    Actually I have no experience at all, the only reason I recognized the marks is because I am from Poland. And that "crossed L" mark is known to me as one of special letters in Polish alphabet so I did a quick research for you. The name of the city where the ring was hallmarked was provided in official webpage explaining hallamarking I gave you in previous post . This is that city, maybe the letter "crossed L" will display on your monitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Łódź

    Hopefully someone with better experience daeling with sellers can suggest you what to do.
     
  7. reelmovies03
    Rough_Rock

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    by reelmovies03 » Nov 26, 2018
    Well, thank you nonetheless, Allgems. This is a great start for me since I was completely lost before this. Much appreciated!
     

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