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Need help with a couple diamond clarity questions

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May 21, 2003
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I recently purchased a diamond from Blue Nile. It is a Ideal-E-VS1-GIA Certified-Laser Inscripted mounted in their ring that I also purchased. I was wondering if anyone can either help explain some things to me about clarity grading etc... as I am only barely slightly educated about diamonds (the standard 5c''s). I have 30 days to return it and presently I am not very happy about it.

My questions is this. I have examined the diamond under 30x magnification loupe, and found the top view of the diamond to be near perfect except for a couple of items. There is a sizable red mark and a smaller red mark near the edge of the girdle on the "upper girdle facet" (not visible with eye). It almost looks like a drops of red paint. Second, a "Bezel facet" and an "upper girdle facet" looks slightly cloudy with a slight red tint to it. The "lower girdle facets" and "pavilion facets" on 2 quarters of the ring looks has a red tint to it when held at a 45 degree angle. I''ve read somewhere that GIA only grades clarity from the top-view and that the bottom view is inconsequential to the diamond. Is this true? Does this amount to a GIA certified VS1?

I do not have a picture of it right now, but I might beable to squeeze one out from my digital camera later to post. I am tempted to return the diamond and do more shopping, I am hoping someone here with expert knowledge will either put my fears to rest or nudge me over the cliff to return it.

PS: I will follow up on this posting, so if you have any questions please ask and I will try to answer to the best of my abilities.

Thank you,
~Looking for a good diamond
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
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First, I would try to post your question on the diamond Prices & grading....."Rockytalk".

Second, diamonds are graded under 10x Is the stone eyeclean? Are you only able to see these imperfections w/ a 30x mag?

Third, no expert - but it sounds like you may have ruby (or red diamond?) crystal inclusions. Many of the diamond dealers think this is cool, if indeed that's what it is.

What else don't you like about the stone? Could you post the table/depth % & other specs?

If you tick the subscribe email when you reply (it's below when you do reply) then you will receive email notification of responses.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
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On 5/21/2003 2:15:19 PM looking_for_a_good_diamond wrote:
My questions is this; I have examined the diamond under 30x magnification loupe, and found the top view of the diamond to be near perfect except for a couple of items. I've read somewhere that GIA only grades clarity from the top-view and that the bottom view is inconsequential to the diamond. Is this true? Does this amount to a GIA certified VS1?

----------------
Looking: As you yourself said, it is *near perfect*.....and that's what the VS1 is. It if were perfect, it would be IF and you would be paying quite a premium for it.

Also, as F&I points out, diamonds are graded under 10X.....you are looking under 30x.
In this case, the technical aspects of the clarity are only important relevant to whether you paid an appropriate price for your diamond. Other than that, they simply don't matter. Your betrothed will not be walking around with a 30x loupe attached to her head (I hope.)

Finally, GIA is one of the most respected grading labs, and if they graded this diamond as VS-1, then I'm confident it is. Hope this allays your concerns.
 

DiamondExpert

Brilliant_Rock
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Using a 30x loupe properly is not an easy task for the inexperienced. You really need to see the stone with a gem microscope with darkfield illumination. Besides it's a good way to "scare" yourself...like looking at a dust mite with a scanning electron microscope. Back off and relax.

What you may be seeing is an included red garnet crystal, commonly seen in diamond, and you may be confused by its reflections. Now, I might think that's really cool, but you might not.

What you have is a GIA graded VS1, so it can't be too large, and is, as you say, not eye visible.

Just by virtue of your having brought this up leads me to believe you are not comfortable with your decision. I think only you can make it, and whatever it may be, it is not important what others might think of it.
 
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Hi and thank you for your response.

The depth is 61.3 and table 56. It is medium, faceted, vg polish, ex symmetry and measurements are 5.78-5.81x3.55, and .73 carats. I ended up paying for the diamond only $3400. Is that good? I figure its in the ballpark. I just feel that the reddish color tint it has when viewed from the side and/or underneath the girdle would impact the clarity rating and was not accounted for by GIA as they tend to be primarily concerned with the top view.
 
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Yes, I do understand that GIA is one of the most respected apart from AGS. However, I felt that they might not have taken into consideration different perspectives of the diamond other than the topview. As I have heard that they grade clarity on primarily the face up position. If this is true, than what I got could possibly not be a VS1, or so I thought.

Thanks guys and gals, you are giving me much more conviction.
 
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Hi, thanks for responding.

Yes I know I may have over did it by looking at it w/30x but I wanted to be sure, and I don't have a 10x. I think I will take a trip to my local jewelry store and borrow a 10x just for this very good reason you brought up.

Thanks.
 

pyramid

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I would get a local independent appraiser, one who does not sell jewelry to take a look at it. I intend to buy over the internet but my jeweler has advised me against this and showed me an article in a jewelry magazine about buyer beware in buying diamonds from the internet. He said his main concern were that the stones may be treated. This red stuff in your diamond is what is putting on the warning lights in me. I have heard that fracture filling can give a red flash effect. Maybe one of the professionals can advise further if treated diamonds are being sold on the internet.
 

pyramid

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Also GIA will not issue a lab report for fracture filled diamonds but an appraiser will be able to ascertain if the certificate you have matches the stone. The article on buyer beware was advising that lab reports might be fake and not match the diamonds being sold. I do believe that Bluenile is one of the big internet diamond sellers and I know nothing about them. I am not inferring anything about any particular company just repeating what my jeweler showed me. I believe Rockdoc, an appraiser who posts on this forum, also posted about this somewhere either on this forum or on another.
 
Joined
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Thanks for the information.

I too am very cautious and wary about buying diamonds via the internet. I believed? believe? Blue Nile is legit, that they wouldn't try to pull the wool over a buyers eyes.... but one can never be certain. I took a leap of faith and that is why I am so worried that I might not have gotten what I purchased. I do however, lean to believe that the diamond is legit according to the documentation they provided as I have examined the GIA laser inscription myself on the diamond and it matches the GIA# on the document. This is one reason why I insisted on buying only diamonds that are Laser Inscription and from a well known internet retailer .vs. those that claim to be wholesalers or brokers of diamonds. I also am well aware that Laser Inscriptions and documents can be forged. In fact, they sell blank GIA, EGL AGS documents on EBay. Ready for filling in by those unscrupulous so-called Diamond Brokers. I believe there are good Diamond Brokers out there as well but "how can you tell one from the other" - Simply put "you can't".

Thanks...
 

pyramid

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looking_for_a_good_diamond I feel that my position is exactly like yours. In fact I told my jeweler that I had been researching this and following various vendors on the forums and was as certain as I could be that they were legit. I would never buy from ebay anyway unless a small purchase. I keep in the back of my mind thinking though how can I prove it but then again I could think the same way about a normal bricks & mortar jeweler. I think it is just the treatments that cannot be seen that scare me off. It is the fact that diamond is seen to be so precious. If I was buying a sofa for instance as long as it was comfortable and looked okay I would think it was fine but it is this scrutinizing of diamonds that goes on with a loupe, light return, color. Sometimes I think it is all psychological and maybe we are all brainwashed.

I am not ready to buy yet and if I had the money I keep thinking I would buy and cannot wait to buy a 1 carat diamond and then I think if I had the money today I would still feel hesitant to buy it over the internet. Maybe it is because I am in the United Kingdom also and am dealing a long way away. There again though I have had contact with UK consumers who have bought no problem.

I guess I will have to mine the diamond, cut it and polish it myself to believe it is really legit. That would be some funny looking stone and then I would think it was not really a diamond but some miner let me mine something else from is ground.

Why am I so mistrusting about diamonds but not about other purchases or about other things in life?
 
Joined
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Hi pyramid,

You know what I've looked at this diamond everyday since I got it and I've realized I can even see the red tint inclusions with my eye, no loupe 10x or 30x. I am getting very unhappy and I will be returning it. This definitely borders on fraud. I'm even tempted to inform the Better Business Bureau about it etc... I do not think this is a VS-1 and if this is the diamond GIA has said is a VS-1 they are completely wrong and their standards are in question in my mind.

I would not recommend Blue Nile. After I return this rock to them, I will never buy from them again.

I think someone had it right when they said "buying a diamond is like buying a car - no two are alike".

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to do more shopping and I'm taking my 30x loupe with me.
 

pyramid

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There is a thread on the other forum diamond talk (all 1 word).com about eye visibility and that inclusions can be visible in VS grades. They also say that if you have found the inclusion with the loupe then that is not eyeclean as you know where to look. I also believe GIA never made the rule about stones being eyeclean. I will try to find the thread and post it.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=17329

I tried to find the post I was speaking about but could not, there are so many posts at diamond talk (one word). I thought it was written by Oldminer and addressed how a diamond was graded and that eye clean mean looking at the stone 18" away from your eye. I think that is the correct number of inches.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
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The number of inches mentioned was 12".
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for the correction aljdewey.

I may have another look for the post and if I find it will post it.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10367&pagenumber=1

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21787&highlight=inches

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=16642&highlight=inches


Above are some posts I found.
Still cannot find the particular post I was looking for
 
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