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Need help: Robbin bros purchase decision

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L

lanced

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2008
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30
Hi all,
We''re about to purchase a 1.77ct, H, VS2 IGI, excellent cut (MSID) from Robbins Bros with a Palladium ring ($800 or so) for $15300 total. Apart from the "IGI" issue, I feel the price is decent base on web-research. But I haven''t find a diamond before, so I''m not very sure about a decision to put out that much money.

a bit of history on this: The diamond is listed as $17,999 on their system. They promised us the price said above. When the receive the diamond, they said it''s a MSID cut, so they can''t discount. I got upset, refused to pay and got my "special order" deposit back. Today, the store manager called said she sorry for the miscommunication and ask if we want to come back. My wife went there and they finally agreed with the promised price.

The whole story is like a car saleman tactic (could be honest though), but I''m suspicious. I want a GIA certified diamond, but that may be hard for $15K incl the ring.

Please advise. I really need your help here.

Thanks,
Lance
 
To be truthful, I got the same tactic when my BF and I first started looking at rings in B&M stores with Robbins Bros.

I found that their "quality diamonds" at crazy prices would never compare to any of the beauties at GOG or WF. For a 1 carat less than ideal I SI3 diamond, they wanted $7000... is what they quoted my BF and I for.. and that was what, 5 months ago? They subsequently emailed me saying they could lower the price and wondered when I could come in for another appointment with their "diamondologist."

Luckily I found this website and knew they were overpricing their diamonds by a lot! I mean granted, they have to mark it up due overhead costs, but seriously! $7k for that?
 
Using the basic diamond search on the PS homepage I found A TON of H VS2 stones right at this size for what--or less--you're paying for this one, including a basic setting. These are all GIA and AGS stones; use the search function to see what the general sentiment is for IGI "certification." Whatever the price is in their system is meaningless BTW. I have a stone listed in MY system* for ONE BILLION DOLLARS but I will sell it to you for less just becuase you're a nice guy (and I need to make my quota for the month). If you will clarify that you are looking for a round stone (and not a princess or any other cut) the "experts" here can help you with other options. Please also clarify what sort of setting you want (4 prong; 6 prong; something else... ).

*"MY system" being the lovely jewelry box that currently resides on my bathroom vanity. For ONE BILLION DOLLARS you may have your pick of any item that is in there. Hell, for that much $$$ you can have it ALL.
 
I forgot to mention it is a ROUND stone.

The setting is 4-prong, Palladium with 6 side-stones (3 each side). I can''t find any thing match that on Bluenile. I don''t know if I feel comfortable on other web sites.
 
I can''t find a stone on Blue Nile that I can recommend, either, at this moment. 1.7 is a bit of a rare size.
 
Thanks for looking JulieN. I wanted to do some comparison, but it''s hard to do with Bluenile because they don''t have IGI. My concern now is about the grade of the diamond as I keep hearing IGI is 2 grade lower than GIA. So that means if the stone is IGI H color, it will be GIA J color? That would be horrible.
 
You should get it checked by an appraiser.

Depends which IGI lab. I hear some are better than others. Usually it is not so bad as two color grades. If it's two grades off, it is more likely to be one color off, one clarity off.
 
Date: 5/24/2008 11:58:14 PM
Author: lanced
Thanks for looking JulieN. I wanted to do some comparison, but it''s hard to do with Bluenile because they don''t have IGI. My concern now is about the grade of the diamond as I keep hearing IGI is 2 grade lower than GIA. So that means if the stone is IGI H color, it will be GIA J color? That would be horrible.
Click to expand...

It could be. Clarity could be off too. Why only Bluenile? There are MANY MANY very reputable vendors, many of whom who have B&M stores in addition to their online presence.
 
My brother bought diamond from BN before and we trusted them. Others? simply because we have not dealt with them before, so it''s hard to judge the reputation. Like anything on internet, you can''t really tell who is writing what.
I would prefer buying diamond from local store which allow us to see and compare diamond. Beside, return is much easier. However, the cost of "convenient" would be higher price. But by how much?

I guess I can always buy it from RB, then have it appraised. If it''s not as described, then we can always return it.

That said, given the description of the stone and the setting, do you think the price is "within range"?
 
Date: 5/25/2008 12:45:07 AM
Author: lanced
My brother bought diamond from BN before and we trusted them. Others? simply because we have not dealt with them before, so it''s hard to judge the reputation. Like anything on internet, you can''t really tell who is writing what.

I would prefer buying diamond from local store which allow us to see and compare diamond. Beside, return is much easier. However, the cost of ''convenient'' would be higher price. But by how much?


I guess I can always buy it from RB, then have it appraised. If it''s not as described, then we can always return it.


That said, given the description of the stone and the setting, do you think the price is ''within range''?
Click to expand...

No. The price is very high for a stone certified by IGI unless it totally checks out with an independent appraiser. Then it''s in range for a B&M store.

Where are you? Maybe there is a PS vendor near you that could be a middle ground.
 
Date: 5/25/2008 12:45:07 AM
Author: lanced
My brother bought diamond from BN before and we trusted them. Others? simply because we have not dealt with them before, so it''s hard to judge the reputation. Like anything on internet, you can''t really tell who is writing what.
I would prefer buying diamond from local store which allow us to see and compare diamond. Beside, return is much easier. However, the cost of ''convenient'' would be higher price. But by how much?

I guess I can always buy it from RB, then have it appraised. If it''s not as described, then we can always return it.

That said, given the description of the stone and the setting, do you think the price is ''within range''?
Click to expand...
There''s not enough information to even compare prices to the PS database. Do you have cut info?
 
I wouldn''t buy an IGI certed stone, If you are set on it, have it independently appraised for sure. BN is fine, don''t love the info they give on their stones, much prefer WF or GOG, plus you can upgrade with them. Just an FYI. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
1.gif
 
Others? simply because we have not dealt with them before, so it''s hard to judge the reputation. Like anything on internet, you can''t really tell who is writing what.


And do you know/trust the people that work in Robbins Bros?
20.gif

You have said yourself that you think they are using stodgy sales tactics on you - why reward them with a huge chunk of your $$?
33.gif
 
I personally have worked with WF, JA, and pearlmans and I trust each one of them a lot more than Robins brothers. I personally want to work for a company that is honest with me and doesn''t say different prices. In addition, you want to make sure the ring and stone you are getting are what they are supposed to be. Others have mentioned that you might not be getting what you are paying for because IGI often grades one or two grades softer than AGS/GIA. I personally would return it and start all over again with WF, JA, GOG or others and get a AGS/GIA ring and have a better sales experience. In addition, WF, JA, and GOG can all make a custom setting to look how you want if you don''t see one you like on their stock website selection. I did this with my wedding band through WF and it turned out beautifully.
 
JulieN,
Table 58%
Depth: 54%
Cut: Excellent RB MSID
 
Date: 5/25/2008 7:50:59 AM
Author: lanced
JulieN,

Table 58%

Depth: 54%

Cut: Excellent RB MSID
Click to expand...

Good morning Lance. For many of the users on this forum, Pricescope has been a saving grace. You are certainly on here because you hope to find objective, balanced and educated suggestions. You''re very lucky, because the posters above me have been gracious in providing you with that. With that said, you should really take heed; the vendors that you are being referred to are truly top notch. If you''re willing to take advice on the quality of a stone, why not take the chance and try out one of the reputable vendors mentioned here?

If you''re looking for a proven track record and references who have used these vendors before (just as your brother used Blue Nile) take your time to browse through the site. There are innumerable pictures, testimonies and documented experiences. You will find that users have purchased a large variety of diamonds from these trusted suppliers, quite often well beyond your own specifications, just because they feel *that* comfortable with them!

Finally, I encourage you to give one of these guys a shot. Browse their websites and find something that stands out to you. Give them a call and feel it out. Compare the pitch that Robbins Bros was throwing at you, versus what these online vendors have to say. That RB ring is not going anywhere. Take the time to be an educated consumer. And have faith in the people that stand behind this forum and have helped countless others.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Date: 5/25/2008 7:50:59 AM
Author: lanced
JulieN,
Table 58%
Depth: 54%
Cut: Excellent RB MSID
Click to expand...
Hi Lance!

Do you have the depth and table reversed out of interest? Even if so, and the depth is 58%, it is very shallow, and if 54% extremely shallow. It appears from the info given, that you can do better. So you know, we need the following info to be able to help you with each diamond...

depth%
table %
crown angle preferably, or percent if that is what you have
pavilion angle or percent
polish and symmetry grade
girdle thickness
diameter measurement
fluorescence if applicable.
 
Hi Somehowcollide
Good morning to you too.
I read the forums and really appreciate all the comments the experts put out here to help readers like me, understand that there are dealers on internet who post as well. Online is a complex world, so if you are in the right place, you could be safe.
I do have faith in buying from internet. In fact, I bought my Acura MDX from ebay for $24K. But I know more about car and I know how to protect myself when buying one.
As for diamond, I have no idea. I don''t think all internet sellers are bad. I''m sure BN, WF, JA are good dealer. That said, I don''t think all RB sell reps are bad either. Just like buying car from dealer. Saleman are out making money, but it''s up to you to decide how much to pay.
Now back to my concern. I prefer GIA. I did search on BN, WF, and JA for 1.77 (+/-.01), H, VS2, Excellent cut, Round. The typical price is $15600-$17600. If I take the lower range, the stone would be $15600 + setting $600 = $16200. So I think getting the same grade w/GIA over internet is hard. The question is: with the IGI cert of the same grade/class from RB, what is the equivalent GIA?
Since I have 30-day money back guarantee, I could get the stone and have it appraised by an independent dealer. That said, if the color/clarity is at the border line (said between H&I, between VS2&VS1), it could be hard for an appraiser to ID.
 
Hi Lorelei,
My wife told me the depth is 54% indeed. It''s because with the RB MSID cut, they make the diamond look bigger (1.77ct looks as big as a 2 ct). Effectively, that would make a very shallow depth. I heard too shallow is not good either. So what is the ideal depth?
 
Date: 5/25/2008 8:33:38 AM
Author: lanced
Hi Lorelei,
My wife told me the depth is 54% indeed. It's because with the RB MSID cut, they make the diamond look bigger (1.77ct looks as big as a 2 ct). Effectively, that would make a very shallow depth. I heard too shallow is not good either. So what is the ideal depth?
Click to expand...
Many here like between 60 - 62%, I personally will go a bit deeper up to 62.4% which is my cutoff for depth. So if you look between 6- - 62% or a little over, then that should be about right. A shallow depth may make the diamond look bigger, but this isn't desirable in other ways, as this can very basically not help the diamond's performance, so you can lose out by having a diamond which doesn't have the life and sparkle it should have. Also it may potentially exhibit undesirable effects from being so shallow, I would personally pass on this diamond for sure!!!
 
Date: 5/25/2008 8:25:25 AM
Author: lanced
Hi Somehowcollide

Good morning to you too.

I read the forums and really appreciate all the comments the experts put out here to help readers like me, understand that there are dealers on internet who post as well. Online is a complex world, so if you are in the right place, you could be safe.

I do have faith in buying from internet. In fact, I bought my Acura MDX from ebay for $24K. But I know more about car and I know how to protect myself when buying one.

As for diamond, I have no idea. I don't think all internet sellers are bad. I'm sure BN, WF, JA are good dealer. That said, I don't think all RB sell reps are bad either. Just like buying car from dealer. Saleman are out making money, but it's up to you to decide how much to pay.

Now back to my concern. I prefer GIA. I did search on BN, WF, and JA for 1.77 (+/-.01), H, VS2, Excellent cut, Round. The typical price is $15600-$17600. If I take the lower range, the stone would be $15600 + setting $600 = $16200. So I think getting the same grade w/GIA over internet is hard. The question is: with the IGI cert of the same grade/class from RB, what is the equivalent GIA?

Since I have 30-day money back guarantee, I could get the stone and have it appraised by an independent dealer. That said, if the color/clarity is at the border line (said between H&I, between VS2&VS1), it could be hard for an appraiser to ID.
Click to expand...
But I don't think it necessarily *is* getting the same grade. Depending on the IGI branch that graded that particular diamond, it could say on paper that it's an H VS2 but is really (as in, appraised for) an I SI1. Both GIA and AGS are the recommended labs here because they have shown themselves to be the most reliable in the accuracy of their grading. Also, you said "excellent cut" in your first post, did you not? I am unsure--does IGI have an 'ideal' grade or is 'excellent' the top? The quality of the cut will affect the overall performance of the diamond and won't have the same fire or scintillation that an ideal cut would have. Also, an ideal cut masks colour, so you could get a GIA I or maybe even a J and have that stone potentially look whiter than the IGI H, if the H isn't cut as well.

I know everyone's priorities are different, but if it was me, I'd want to make sure I had an ideal cut stone, and THEN figure out what carat weight/colour/clarity options I had for my budget. I don't want a big rock on my hand if it doesn't sparkle like mad, y'know? That's the whole point of a diamond.
1.gif


ETA: GOG has a 1.7ct I SI1 H&A AGS ideal cut for $11,715.21 (bank wire discount). Scores a 0.5 (ex/ex/ex/vg) on the HCA: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3659/

That would leave you about $3000 to find a nice setting. Just an idea!
1.gif
 
Date: 5/25/2008 8:42:09 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 5/25/2008 8:33:38 AM
Author: lanced
Hi Lorelei,
My wife told me the depth is 54% indeed. It''s because with the RB MSID cut, they make the diamond look bigger (1.77ct looks as big as a 2 ct). Effectively, that would make a very shallow depth. I heard too shallow is not good either. So what is the ideal depth?
Click to expand...
Many here like between 60 - 62%, I personally will go a bit deeper up to 62.4% which is my cutoff for depth. So if you look between 6- - 62% or a little over, then that should be about right. A shallow depth may make the diamond look bigger, but this isn''t desirable in other ways, as this can very basically not help the diamond''s performance, so you can lose out by having a diamond which doesn''t have the life and sparkle it should have. Also it may potentially exhibit undesirable effects from being so shallow, I would personally pass on this diamond for sure!!!
Click to expand...
ditto Miss Lorelei - pass for sure based on this info.
 
Date: 5/25/2008 9:00:55 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 5/25/2008 8:42:09 AM
Author: Lorelei


Date: 5/25/2008 8:33:38 AM
Author: lanced
Hi Lorelei,
My wife told me the depth is 54% indeed. It''s because with the RB MSID cut, they make the diamond look bigger (1.77ct looks as big as a 2 ct). Effectively, that would make a very shallow depth. I heard too shallow is not good either. So what is the ideal depth?
Click to expand...
Many here like between 60 - 62%, I personally will go a bit deeper up to 62.4% which is my cutoff for depth. So if you look between 6- - 62% or a little over, then that should be about right. A shallow depth may make the diamond look bigger, but this isn''t desirable in other ways, as this can very basically not help the diamond''s performance, so you can lose out by having a diamond which doesn''t have the life and sparkle it should have. Also it may potentially exhibit undesirable effects from being so shallow, I would personally pass on this diamond for sure!!!
Click to expand...
ditto Miss Lorelei - pass for sure based on this info.
Click to expand...
Thanks AJ! I just want to clarify somehow I forgot the zero on my figures above, that should read depth 60- 62%.
 
So this is what I found by reading around.

First of all, it''s an MSID cut patented by RB. What is it? They cut it shallower but larger in diameter. From what I read, MSID cut does have lot of fire in high-lighting condition (i.e. daylight), but lost it sparkle in low light and also when get dirty.

This, plus the IGI cert, making me nervous already.
 
Date: 5/25/2008 8:25:25 AM
Author: lanced
Hi Somehowcollide

Good morning to you too.

I read the forums and really appreciate all the comments the experts put out here to help readers like me, understand that there are dealers on internet who post as well. Online is a complex world, so if you are in the right place, you could be safe.

I do have faith in buying from internet. In fact, I bought my Acura MDX from ebay for $24K. But I know more about car and I know how to protect myself when buying one.

As for diamond, I have no idea. I don''t think all internet sellers are bad. I''m sure BN, WF, JA are good dealer. That said, I don''t think all RB sell reps are bad either. Just like buying car from dealer. Saleman are out making money, but it''s up to you to decide how much to pay.

Now back to my concern. I prefer GIA. I did search on BN, WF, and JA for 1.77 (+/-.01), H, VS2, Excellent cut, Round. The typical price is $15600-$17600. If I take the lower range, the stone would be $15600 + setting $600 = $16200. So I think getting the same grade w/GIA over internet is hard. The question is: with the IGI cert of the same grade/class from RB, what is the equivalent GIA?

Since I have 30-day money back guarantee, I could get the stone and have it appraised by an independent dealer. That said, if the color/clarity is at the border line (said between H&I, between VS2&VS1), it could be hard for an appraiser to ID.
Click to expand...

Lance-I wish I could help you navigate through the nuances of your dilemma, alas I lack the expertise (or perhaps the faith in my expertise) to guide you. I was simply hoping to open your options to the possibility of choosing a diamond over the internet and perhaps hoping you would loose a bit of the skepticism. Understandably, it is the overall knowledge you lack, and therefore you are hoping to compensate for it by working with a vendor that is established and a trusted name. Its a huge purchase you are going to make, and the posters on this site will be generous with their knowledge which may or may include shopping online.

I understand your feelings about finding an GIA graded stone that has comparable specs, but as Gwendolyn mentioned cut is an important factor to take into account as well. Moreover, it should be comforting to know you''re purchasing a diamond that is graded on a stricter and more accurate scale.

Again, good luck with your search. I am also pleased to hear that you are, at the least, browsing online and considering your options.
 
Date: 5/25/2008 9:13:59 AM
Author: lanced
So this is what I found by reading around.


First of all, it's an MSID cut patented by RB. What is it? They cut it shallower but larger in diameter. From what I read, MSID cut does have lot of fire in high-lighting condition (i.e. daylight), but lost it sparkle in low light and also when get dirty.


This, plus the IGI cert, making me nervous already.
Click to expand...
Listen to your gut, mate. This is a big purchase. You have reservations already, and you haven't even paid the money for it. Don't take it.

Also, at least think about the stone (or a similar one perhaps) that I showed you in my previous post. I don't know if you were set on palladium for cost reasons only or if there was more to it, but I think you could get a pretty amazing setting for three grand AND walk away with a beautiful, ideal-cut 1.7ct stone to put in it.
1.gif
 
Date: 5/25/2008 9:13:59 AM
Author: lanced
So this is what I found by reading around.

First of all, it''s an MSID cut patented by RB. What is it? They cut it shallower but larger in diameter. From what I read, MSID cut does have lot of fire in high-lighting condition (i.e. daylight), but lost it sparkle in low light and also when get dirty.

This, plus the IGI cert, making me nervous already.
Click to expand...
I did a bit of research, apparently this is a branded cut which RB claim can look up to 15% bigger than similar carat weight diamonds, in other words it is a spready, shallow diamond.

Here is a thread I found on MSID with input from some of the experts here. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-know-about-msid-diamonds.83958/

Personally I would rather have a excellently cut balanced diamond which offered me proven performance in all aspects, rather than one of these!
 
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