need help picking the right ring

[mikenjersey]

Hello everyone,
I''m 22 and have beeen dating my girlfriend for about 6 years and were ready to get married but I''m having a hard time picking out the perfect ring for her. I''ve been doing a lot of shopping and looking around trying to learn as much as possible because I dont know a lot about diamonds or jewelry.
I''ve decided to get a three stone ring with round diamonds and total carat weight somewhere between 1.75 and 2.0. I would prefer to have the middle stone be about 1 carat but only if I can afford it. I want to spend somewhere around $7,000. Im not sure what color and clarity to go with. A lot of the diamonds that Ive seen in stores are H color and S1 clarity, but I was thinking about going with something a little higher like G and VS12 or VS1.
...I have a lot of questions and would appreciate the advice of anyone who knows about diamonds or has bought some themselves.

I talked with a salesman at Kay and he had a LEO diamond 1.8 total carat weight selling for 7500, is that a good ring or a good deal? Zales offered something similiar.
If I''m going to spend $7500ish what carat, color, clarity should I be expecting? What is the deal with facets? What is the most important to spend money on?
Thanks for your help.
Mike

 

[JulieN]

H SI1 is a very nice place, because most people cannot see yellow in H stones, and most people cannot find inclusions in SI1 grades.

Leo diamonds tend to be deep, so they look smaller than standard ideal rounds of the same carat weight.

Generally, you''ll want to get the best cut you can afford.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/4/2009 6:05:21 PM
Author: JulieN
H SI1 is a very nice place, because most people cannot see yellow in H stones, and most people cannot find inclusions in SI1 grades.

Leo diamonds tend to be deep, so they look smaller than standard ideal rounds of the same carat weight.

Generally, you''ll want to get the best cut you can afford.

Hi Mike,

I ditto Julie above, cut is the most important factor for beauty - so concentrate on that and maybe start at GIA or AGS graded H SI1 for colour and clarity and see what you can get for that.

 

[Tuckins1]

Hi Mike. You have definitely come to the right place for help... Here are a few choices for you. These are trusted PS vendors who have done great work for MANY other people here! Browse through and see what you think!

This first diamond looks great, and it scores a 1.4 on the HCA... (The HCA helps you determine the cut quality/brilliance/sparkle....)
Stone 1

If you pair it with one of these settings, you should come in right around your budget...
Setting 1
Setting 2

Here''s a stone from Good Old Gold... It''s just under 1 ct, but I don''t think it would be noticeable...
GOG stone

Here is a lovely three stone from Knox Jewelers...
Bonita

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 4/4/2009 5:55:57 PM
Author:mikenjersey
Hello everyone,

I''m 22 and have beeen dating my girlfriend for about 6 years and were ready to get married but I''m having a hard time picking out the perfect ring for her. I''ve been doing a lot of shopping and looking around trying to learn as much as possible because I dont know a lot about diamonds or jewelry.

I''ve decided to get a three stone ring with round diamonds and total carat weight somewhere between 1.75 and 2.0. I would prefer to have the middle stone be about 1 carat but only if I can afford it. I want to spend somewhere around $7,000. Im not sure what color and clarity to go with. A lot of the diamonds that Ive seen in stores are H color and S1 clarity, but I was thinking about going with something a little higher like G and VS12 or VS1.

...I have a lot of questions and would appreciate the advice of anyone who knows about diamonds or has bought some themselves.


I talked with a salesman at Kay and he had a LEO diamond 1.8 total carat weight selling for 7500, is that a good ring or a good deal? Zales offered something similiar.

If I''m going to spend $7500ish what carat, color, clarity should I be expecting? What is the deal with facets? What is the most important to spend money on?

Thanks for your help.

Mike

hi mikenjersey,

let''s start with some basics and work in.

the first thing you need to make sure of is that each of your stones has a GIA report. this will give you all sorts of information, but the main things you''ll be looking for are color, weight (carat), cut and clarity. pretty much everyone here would agree that CUT is the most important feature, in that it determines the overall look of your stone. there''s a lot of ways you can determine how good the cut is that you''re getting, but by far the simplest is to look for a stone with a cut which is graded by the GIA as ''Excellent''. this is the top GIA grade and will mean you''re getting a good stone. look also for ''Polish and Symmetry''. if you keep those ''Excellent'' also, you''ll be getting a very nice stone indeed. my understanding is that large chains like Kays and Zales rarely sell this quality of stones. even stones like their Leo can be an excellent cut...but not excellent in polish and symmetry. you will also pay a storefront premium, so you''re not maximizing your dollar.

as for color and clarity - again, most here will tell you that a grade of SI1 is adequate and should give you a nice clean stone, so dont be afraid to go ''there''. however, i tend to disagree with a lot of folks here on color. i have stones of every grade and love them all, but i can DEFINITELY SEE the difference in color. if i''m setting in yellow gold, i think H/I/J is fine. but in platinum, i dont go below G. a well cut stone will reflect back mostly light, making a yellow tint hard to see....from the TOP. but from the side, you can see color in a stone which is not colorless. for this, i think a G is fine and an I is not - meaning that for me, the cutoff happens somewhere around H. you may prefer to have something somewhat whiter than this, and, if so, i''d recommend you stay at a G color.

obviously the next thing is to work out - yellow gold, white gold, or platinum? i love yellow gold, as do many women, and i also have a full platinum set. but some women have very definite taste one way or the other. if you decide to go with a white metal, you will need to decide between white gold and platinum. white gold is rhodium treated almost always in pre-fabricated rings, and the rhodium will need to be replated every 6-12 months. this means your girl would be without her rings quite a lot. platinum, tho more expensive, isnt plated, so doesn''t need this kind of maintenance.

so - where to buy? if you''re a young man who has never done this before, the whole diamond buying process can be very confusing, and dealing with your more complicated vendor can be intimidating. 2 companies who will give you VERY good service and offer great products are Blue Nile and James Allen (both .com online stores). altho these are online companies, so many here on pricescope have shopped through them (including myself, many times) that they can be recommended to you with confidence. you''ll maximize your dollar here as you wont be paying the premium of a storefront, and they both have excellent, reliable return policies if you get the product and you find you dislike it (unlikely!)

so - how about a few rings? some of these are shown in white gold but can also be made in platinum...

something elegant and beautiful:

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/ring/item_58-1441.asp

or something classic:

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/settings-with-sidestones/ring/item_58-1451.asp

james allen''s side stones are very nice and are within the G/H - VS/SI criteria. but you might like ot pick all three stones yourself. in that case - how about...

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/3Stone/3-Stone-U-Prong-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-by-WF_746.htm

the ultimate classic:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-ring-platinum_5922?metal_filter=platinum&setting_filter=3stone&sort_select=LTHP&show_all_pages=1&set_shape=

or something with even more bling:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-ring-platinum_5923?metal_filter=platinum&setting_filter=3stone&sort_select=LTHP&show_all_pages=1&set_shape=

these are all good, solid, beautiful suggestions. so which way to go?

if i was you, i would probably go with a ring which already had side stones chosen for me. it maximizes your dollar and gives you a degree of confidence that you''re on the right track! you can then also be assured that the proportions of the ring will look great. so my choice woul dbe one of the two james allen rings - probably the one with the pear shaped diamonds - just for a little more interest and elegance. it''s not a common ring by any means and, with a one carat stone in the centre, will lok absolutely stunning. it will also fit your budget - and that''s very important also.

here''s a lovely diamond which totally fits your criteria and budget. it''s from Blue Nile but can be put in the James Allen ring:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01458093?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

if you dont want to go that route, James Allen would have stones also (i just use BN to source stones cause i am most familiar with them, have done a lot of business with them and am familiar with their interface for quick sourcing!). you might want to check the insurance policies as sometimes the ring has to be filled with a stone from the setting vendor for the insurance policy to stay in effect.

so - both James Allen rings in platinum , filled with an excellent cut, ex/ex polish and symmetry diamond of G/SI1, 1.00 ct specs will come in at just below 7k, leaving you enough money to take your girl out to a fabulous dinner to propose.

i hope this helps!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 10:57:55 AM
Author: whitby_2773

Date: 4/4/

hi mikenjersey,

let's start with some basics and work in.

the first thing you need to make sure of is that each of your stones has a GIA report. this will give you all sorts of information, but the main things you'll be looking for are color, weight (carat), cut and clarity. pretty much everyone here would agree that CUT is the most important feature, in that it determines the overall look of your stone. there's a lot of ways you can determine how good the cut is that you're getting, but by far the simplest is to look for a stone with a cut which is graded by the GIA as 'Excellent'. this is the top GIA grade and will mean you're getting a good stone. look also for 'Polish and Symmetry'. if you keep those 'Excellent' also, you'll be getting a very nice stone indeed. my understanding is that large chains like Kays and Zales rarely sell this quality of stones. even stones like their Leo can be an excellent cut...but not excellent in polish and symmetry. you will also pay a storefront premium, so you're not maximizing your dollar.

Whitby, I am really sorry to have to jump in here but GIA Excellent cut graded diamonds are unfortunately not a guaranteed way of getting a well cut diamond. This cut grade allows for what we call steep deep angle combos which can leak light badly and not be very attractive diamonds, so all GIA Excellent cut grade need evaluating carefully to find the best ones.

This thread explains further - GIA Excellent....Let the Buyer Beware...

 

[whitby_2773]

hi lorelei

i absolutely agree with you. but i think what i''m aiming for here is a kind of keynesian example of what''s likely to give the best result without overloading with so much technical stuff that it turns a 22 yr old young man with no diamond knowledge straight into the arms of Zales, which would be a shame. i think what we''re looking for here is something lovely for a young woman which is good, solid quality, which they can both be proud of - not necessarily a collector''s piece with all the right stats. also, were mike to talk to the people at James Allen, for example, or even White Flash (which i include a link to), they''d help him out no end.

my intention was to write an email to arm him with some basic info give him a starting point; before we get to HCA''s and scope results and light performance profiles, and some of the more specific angle percentages and so forth it helps to know some basics - like - what you will find on a GIA cert and so on if you''ve never seen one. i took his word for it when he said he had no experience in this sort of thing, so thought we''d walk before we ran, so to speak.

he''s also a lot safer off, and stands a statistically much better chance of getting a great diamond, with a GIA cut rating of ''excellent'' as opposed to one rated ''fair'' for example, so it''s a good starting point to give him some idea what to look for i think. one has to start from somewhere...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 11:46:32 AM
Author: whitby_2773

hi lorelei

i absolutely agree with you. but i think what i'm aiming for here is a kind of keynesian example of what's likely to give the best result without overloading with so much technical stuff that it turns a 22 yr old young man with no diamond knowledge straight into the arms of Zales, which would be a shame. i think what we're looking for here is something lovely for a young woman which is good, solid quality, which they can both be proud of - not necessarily a collector's piece with all the right stats. also, were mike to talk to the people at James Allen, for example, or even White Flash (which i include a link to), they'd help him out no end.

my intention was to write an email to arm him with some basic info give him a starting point; before we get to HCA's and scope results and light performance profiles, and some of the more specific angle percentages and so forth it helps to know some basics - like - what you will find on a GIA cert and so on if you've never seen one. i took his word for it when he said he had no experience in this sort of thing, so thought we'd walk before we ran, so to speak.

he's also a lot safer off, and stands a statistically much better chance of getting a great diamond, with a GIA cut rating of 'excellent' as opposed to one rated 'fair' for example, so it's a good starting point to give him some idea what to look for i think. one has to start from somewhere...

The trouble is with GIA Excellent is that there are some which are not good performers due to the angle combos, and unfortunately we see this often so it is easy to inadvertently pick one which isn't going to be a great looking diamond. We have had some posters who have chosen these without knowing better and have been very unhappy - even so far as getting recuts. This is also one of the things we have to watch for here as this does come along a lot in RT, so it has become standard advice regrettably and not something that I think is overwhelming newbies in advising on this. Also I don't think especially judging from the positive feedback we have been getting recently in particular, that we are overloading newbies with so much technical stuff that we are driving them into the arms of Zales and suchlike. Again sorry to point that out but it is something we do find necessary to mention with this cut grade in particular - evaluate each carefully on its proportions - HCA which score below 2 should eliminate the steep deeps and Idealscope images can be very helpful here in order to find the most promising of this cut grade.

 

[DiamondFlame]

I think it really is up to the person if he thinks he gets overloaded. But withholding critical info hampers the making of 'informed decisions'.

mikenjersey,
Hold on to your budget. You might want to do some research on the 4Cs if you have not done so already. Just to get an idea of where you want to start looking at.
Let's start with an eye clean H/SI as the minimum. Tell us what setting you prefer. Let the fine PS folks sort out the best stone/setting combo from some very respected PS vendors. Treat them as your online alternatives to the LEO or the Zales offering.

If I'm buying a round brilliant, I'd ask Pricescopers to pick me some serious contenders. Honestly, they ARE good at selecting them.

 

[whitby_2773]

hi again lorelei

again - not disagreeing with you - just taking a different approach to you. i dont see any way in which these approaches aren''t complementary. i agree that lots of info is good, but it has to be info which is at the level of the person asking. i think abbreviations, for example, are a problem as they can bewilder. since the vast majority of people who are on pricescope dont sign up and dont post, it''s difficult to know how they''re perceiving the information they''re given.

i think everyone on pricescope has something to offer re information, and i think mike would be wise to listen to all opinions as i think, together, they give a global picture. he will no doubt work out what''s most important to him - and, who knows? cut might not matter to his fiance; for her it might be all about the size, or the color, or reproducing a ring she once saw when she was a little girl. this is where having all opinions help.

and that''s why pricescope is so great - for its range of info.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:52:15 PM
Author: whitby_2773

hi again lorelei

again - not disagreeing with you - just taking a different approach to you. i dont see any way in which these approaches aren't complementary. i agree that lots of info is good, but it has to be info which is at the level of the person asking. i think abbreviations, for example, are a problem as they can bewilder. since the vast majority of people who are on pricescope dont sign up and dont post, it's difficult to know how they're perceiving the information they're given.

i think everyone on pricescope has something to offer re information, and i think mike would be wise to listen to all opinions as i think, together, they give a global picture. he will no doubt work out what's most important to him - and, who knows? cut might not matter to his fiance; for her it might be all about the size, or the color, or reproducing a ring she once saw when she was a little girl. this is where having all opinions help.

and that's why pricescope is so great - for its range of info.

Hi Whitby,

The point I am trying to make here is that it is well known GIA Excellent are not created equal so it is prudent to evaluate each Excellent cut grade diamond carefully as some will show unattractive light leakage. So my concern is in advising that if you choose a GIA Excellent graded diamond - and I quote " will mean you are getting a good stone", isn't always the true unfortunately.

As to any 'bewildering' as you mention above, I don't believe that is the case -we work very hard to tailor the level of info to suit the person asking and to explain things clearly - it is my experience that if a poster doesn't understand the advice that is offered then they soon let us know, also the Pricescope advisors are very experienced with providing help and advice which is best suited to the poster, some have been doing it for years. Also as I said previously, especially judging from recent positive feedback in particular, it would appear that the regulars in Rocky Talk are doing a great job and that the quality of the information that new posters are receiving is both appropriate and useful, and providing a very valuable service which is very helpful to newbies wanting to buy a diamond.

Definitely all options and opinions are very welcome, however the caution with the GIA cut grade is well known and if you have read Rocky Talk for any amount of time, you will notice this is standard advice given from both experts and consumers due to the risk of finding a diamond with a bad angle combo. Yes there are beautiful GIA Excellent cut grade diamonds out there, but some are of what we call the steep deep angle combinations which are known to often suffer from light leakage, and as a result can show undesirable effects. These issues have been widely discussed in the past and are still an ongoing topic, if you do a search there are many threads on the subject of GIA Excellent cut grade so you can see how this advice has evolved and why it is important. Also as Dimitri said above, witholding critical info such as that GIA Excellent cut grade can allow for less desirable angle combinations, in some cases can hamper the eventual aim of getting the buyer a beautiful rock!

 

[mikenjersey]

Hello,
Thank you whitby for you help! I am young and naive when it comes to diamonds so the advice helps a lot and is much appreciated. Thanks to everyone else as well.

I spent some time looking at rings on james allen and blue nile but none of the designs were exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping to find a band with no diamonds on the side that doesnt narrow as it gets closer to the center stones. Also I couldnt find a ring that was roughly 2 ct total weight everything was either about 1 ct or 3 ct and up (nothing in the middle). So I designed my own ring and I was wondering what you guys thought.

I liked the trellis setting
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-ring-platinum_5922
... my only concern with the trellis is that it might make the center diamond just blend in, Im afraid it wont stick up higher than the side diamonds and really stand out.???

I wasn''t sure about the diamonds I picked for it, but here they are.
center diamond
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-e-color-si1-clarity_LD01422576?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=8
side stones
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.jsp?filter_id=8&pid2=LD01059464&pid3=LD01124618

1.8 total weight with some good quality stones (i think) and that is priced at $7,400.
what do you think?

Also what it the flourescence about, is that important?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:07:01 PM
Author: mikenjersey
Hello,
Thank you whitby for you help! I am young and naive when it comes to diamonds so the advice helps a lot and is much appreciated. Thanks to everyone else as well.

I spent some time looking at rings on james allen and blue nile but none of the designs were exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping to find a band with no diamonds on the side that doesnt narrow as it gets closer to the center stones. Also I couldnt find a ring that was roughly 2 ct total weight everything was either about 1 ct or 3 ct and up (nothing in the middle). So I designed my own ring and I was wondering what you guys thought.

I liked the trellis setting
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-ring-platinum_5922
... my only concern with the trellis is that it might make the center diamond just blend in, Im afraid it wont stick up higher than the side diamonds and really stand out.???

I wasn't sure about the diamonds I picked for it, but here they are.
center diamond
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-e-color-si1-clarity_LD01422576?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=8
side stones
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.jsp?filter_id=8&pid2=LD01059464&pid3=LD01124618

1.8 total weight with some good quality stones (i think) and that is priced at $7,400.
what do you think?

Also what it the flourescence about, is that important?

Hi Mike,

Unfortunately the diamond you picked which is highlighted above is a classic example of why we caution with GIA Excellent cut grade, this diamond does have the steep and deep crown and pavilion angles which are mentioned above. This means that the diamond will very likely leak light and not sparkle as well as it should do. I would suggest that we try to find another, I would look for a diamond with crown angle between 34- 35 degrees and a pavilion angle of between 40.6 and 41 degrees, and try to aim for the middle of these ranges if possible rather than the extreme ends.

This link explains about fluorescence. http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fluor.asp With medium fluorescence you might not even notice it much.

With the sidestones I can't seem to find the angles for each, the depth, table and diameters look good but the angles are very important, maybe I am missing how to access that info?

 

[mikenjersey]

I dont even know where you found that info about the crown and pavillion angles, I didnt see that.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:26:56 PM
Author: mikenjersey
I dont even know where you found that info about the crown and pavillion angles, I didnt see that.

If you click on the link of the diamond Mike then scroll down, then look to the lower left of the page you will see a small box which says GIA report, click on that and it will bring the report up with the angle info to the left on the diamond diagram.

 

[Ellen]

Hi miken,

Would you be open to shopping with a vendor that gives pics/IS, etc? There are some great vendors who could set you up right.

Here''s why I ask, and here''s what Lorelei was trying to say about the fact that just because a GIA stone has EX cut, you can''t assume it''s a great stone. This is one, but definitely would not be a really pretty diamond. But with BN, you have no way of knowing what you''re getting, because they don''t prvide info like this. Anyway, just thought I''d add this little bit.

Click on the word Idealscope. That should be all red where it is white/grey/black, and that means light is leaking out the bottom, not coming back up at you, the way you want it to. So you do this --->

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-1204653.htm#

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:07:01 PM
Author: mikenjersey
Hello,

Thank you whitby for you help! I am young and naive when it comes to diamonds so the advice helps a lot and is much appreciated. Thanks to everyone else as well.


I spent some time looking at rings on james allen and blue nile but none of the designs were exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping to find a band with no diamonds on the side that doesnt narrow as it gets closer to the center stones. Also I couldnt find a ring that was roughly 2 ct total weight everything was either about 1 ct or 3 ct and up (nothing in the middle). So I designed my own ring and I was wondering what you guys thought.


I liked the trellis setting

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-ring-platinum_5922

... my only concern with the trellis is that it might make the center diamond just blend in, Im afraid it wont stick up higher than the side diamonds and really stand out.???


I wasn''t sure about the diamonds I picked for it, but here they are.

center diamond

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-e-color-si1-clarity_LD01422576?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=8

side stones

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.jsp?filter_id=8&pid2=LD01059464&pid3=LD01124618


1.8 total weight with some good quality stones (i think) and that is priced at $7,400.

what do you think?


Also what it the flourescence about, is that important?

hi again mike

you''re very welcome! i''m sorry if the info i gave you was incomplete - it really wasn''t meant to hit all bases, just provide you with somewhere to start. i mean, when all is said and done, it''s sunday here in New York, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and it''s time for me to be outside!

how far you go with diamonds is up to you. i think it depends how much time and effort you want to put into it and how important it is to you; most here on pricescope would agree that diamonds are a serious business indeed!

i agree with lorelei as regards the stats of the stone you chose; the one i chose from BN is within the limits she suggests and would probably give you more sparkle. it might be worth noting, tho, that not everyone''s eye is as fine as each other''s, meaning some will see a difference at some point, whereas someone wil be unable to see a difference. for example, i''m really sensitive to color, whereas some people are not so much. it''s an individual thing.

the reason i like BN for a newbie, tho, is partly because it''s what i''m used to (and i have no problem with admitting that! ), but also, and mainly, because you can keep the stone for 30 days and then return it if you so choose. that means you can take it to your jeweler and have it evaluated, you can try it out in different lights, you can take it to your jeweler and have him or her compare it to anything else in their store; basically you have a chance to develop your own opinion. now let''s be clear...

i am NOT saying you cant do that with other vendors; there are definitely other vendors who offer this option. i''m speaking of my own experience, and i have certain vendors i''ve worked with many times, so am just passing along those names. others will point you in the direction of their own experience, which of course they should.

for sparkle, 2 basic stats i always check are depth and table. you''ll find those stats (along with various others already covered by lorelei) on any GIA cert. i try to keep the depth of any round brilliant stone i buy between 61.7 and 60.7%, and as close to the middle as possible. if a stone is too shallow, it will tend to look overly white and possibly milky if very shallow. if too deep, it can give a sense of darkness which is unattractive in my opinion. for table width i stick between 55 and 57%. these stats are tied in inherently with crown and pavillion stats and all up can give you a lovely or horrible stone.

probably the only way to work out what you like...is to go and look at lots of them! and this is why i say it''s useful to work out how important this process it to you. for your budget''s sake, it''s worthwhile drawing up some boundaries you''re comfortable with - working out what''s important to you and what isn''t - and you can only work that out by looking at stones.

i bought my first diamond about 30 years ago and have been pretty serious about stones for about 20. my father however, was a very serious collector, and had a wonderful eye for a good stone. he bought his first stone for my mother when he was 21 - much like you - and it began a lifelong love affair that lasted till he died.

i wish you lifelong enjoyment of the diamonds you purchase at this time of your life,