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hielam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
6
Looking for an engagement ring! I've done some research about the 4 c's but not super clear about Ideal Scope, ASET, etc...

The ring itself is going to be a halo. The only thing I am (pretty) certain I want is an excellent cut. I think I want somewhere around 1.7+ carats, less would be okay too.

As I understand it, I or better is probably okay for color. I spent some time at a local chain and can only tell the difference between I, H, G and F when compared side to side and even then, barely. SI2 or better as long as it's eye clean. Budget is probably up to $14k for the diamond but flexible if it's worth it.

I picked three at James Allen that seem to have good table, depth, crown angle, pavilion angle and are between .9 -1.4 on the HCA tool. But .9 might not be good for rings? Not sure why...

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...f-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3498193

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208465

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5063606

Any help is appreciated!! Thanks!!
 
I can see you are trying to get a good value and maximize size, but I would reset your eyes and expectation a bit to get a much cleaner stone.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...f-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3498193
Eliminate. Inclusions too visible.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208465
Eliminate. The stone is cloudy and inclusions too visible.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5063606
Clouds in an SI2 will nearly always be a problem.


Options. JA will typically give you 3 IS images. So, put your top three on hold and then ask for IS images.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5135715
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4879423
If JA can assure you that the clouds are not an issue, this is big and clean with good angles. Ask for an IS (Idealscope) image.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3187082
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208462
{Quite nice, very clean and good angles. AGS is more strict on cut. Ask for IS}

Other vendors
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/11448166/Round-Diamond-I-Color-VS2-Clarityj {great size and price, ask for an ASET}

This WF option is competitively priced. It is super-ideal (TOTL cut) and WF have a more generous upgrade policy.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075973.htm
 
rockysalamander said:
I can see you are trying to get a good value and maximize size, but I would reset your eyes and expectation a bit to get a much cleaner stone.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...f-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3498193
Eliminate. Inclusions too visible.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208465
Eliminate. The stone is cloudy and inclusions too visible.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5063606
Clouds in an SI2 will nearly always be a problem.


Options. JA will typically give you 3 IS images. So, put your top three on hold and then ask for IS images.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5135715
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4879423
If JA can assure you that the clouds are not an issue, this is big and clean with good angles. Ask for an IS (Idealscope) image.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3187082
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208462
{Quite nice, very clean and good angles. AGS is more strict on cut. Ask for IS}

Other vendors
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/11448166/Round-Diamond-I-Color-VS2-Clarityj {great size and price, ask for an ASET}

This WF option is competitively priced. It is super-ideal (TOTL cut) and WF have a more generous upgrade policy.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075973.htm
Click to expand...

This would be my starting point. I just searched WF for other alternatives, and found 1-none that can beat this. I even found the same exact diamond & drooled. This is beautiful! Please place this on hold, and get your hands on this, before it’s too late!
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075973.htm
 
rockysalamander said:
I can see you are trying to get a good value and maximize size, but I would reset your eyes and expectation a bit to get a much cleaner stone.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...f-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3498193
Eliminate. Inclusions too visible.
TRUE

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208465
Eliminate. The stone is cloudy and inclusions too visible.

I strongly agree with this.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5063606
Clouds in an SI2 will nearly always be a problem.
You got it.

Options. JA will typically give you 3 IS images. So, put your top three on hold and then ask for IS images.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5135715
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4879423
If JA can assure you that the clouds are not an issue, this is big and clean with good angles. Ask for an IS (Idealscope) image.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3187082
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208462
{Quite nice, very clean and good angles. AGS is more strict on cut. Ask for IS}

Other vendors
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/11448166/Round-Diamond-I-Color-VS2-Clarityj {great size and price, ask for an ASET}

This WF option is competitively priced. It is super-ideal (TOTL cut) and WF have a more generous upgrade policy.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075973.htm
Click to expand...
GREAT RECOMMENDATION ;)2
 
Thanks for the advice! I am definitely looking for value but not really stuck on anything else!

I wil call WF and get them to place that diamond on hold. Is there anything else I should ask them?

Will that diamond in a halo ring have a noticeable color difference? It looks less yellow than the JA diamonds, but that could also be the black vs white background. I guess I can ask them WF on the color as well and see what they think. I originally thought it would not be distinguishable to the untrained eye, but I also thought the three I picked were pretty good, haha.

Between these three:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075973.htm

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4879423

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208462

Which would you recommend and why? I can ask for IS images but am worried about using up my 3 IS images lol.

I am probably placing too much emphasis on the H and true hearts designations but those are the only things I can rely on other than my untrained eyes, haha.

Thanks again for all your help! So glad I found this site!
 
Early on you said you could barely detect a color difference in stones ranging F to I. I don't find this abnormal but I would like to point out that is a much more broad range than trying to see color difference between H & I colored stones. Based on this, I highly doubt you will be able to tell enough difference to justify spending the extra money for an H colored stone.

Also, if you are able to secure an ideal cut stone, they will be cut properly so they give the illusion of being more white and larger than stones not cut as well.

That said, if I were eliminating stones I would drop the H SI1 from JA. It's essentially the same cost as the I VS2 stone from them, but with the I colored stone you get a H&A ideal cut stone, better clarity and AGS certification. If you aren't aware, while both GIA & AGS certifications are good, it is preferred to have AGS because they have more strict grading standards. Also when AGS puts Ideal0 on their cut grade, it means that SPECIFIC diamond was analyzed using their proprietary 3D modeling system utilizing those diamond specific facets/cuts and indeed that stone is an ideal cut stone.

Not a bad deal for $80 IMO. And especially when YOUR eyes can't detect a color difference.

Now we have two, and IMO the choice is much tougher. JA 1.71ct I VS2 or WF 1.733ct I SI1. Dimensonally, both stones are nearly identical. WF slightly wins, but it's marginal and at that fraction of a difference, your eyes will never see it. Both have AGS certs and are Ideal0 cut. Although the WF stone missed the ACA mark (WF's proprietary branded H&A stone), you can see the H&A images and see this is an excellent stone.

With the wire price, you can save about $900 @ WF and have a killer upgrade policy. Essentially spend $1 more and get full value of the original stone. With JA, you have to spend 2x the original purchase price and then you get full full value of the original stone.

At JA, I see you can save 25% off a setting if you couple with one of their settings. This only has value if they have what you love, and assuming you spend $1,600+ on a setting that is around $400 savings.

Personally I would put both stones on hold while you decide. I'd request all images from JA. It'd be nice to have an IS and ASET, although I am not certain JA's policy on ASET's. I know when I was shopping and considering them they didn't provide me one. Both images are available at WF that you can review right now if you want (love their transparency about what they are selling you).

Personally I'd probably buy the WF stone because I like the company and transparency better. But again, that is personal opinion.

At the very least, I'd call WF and have them pull that stone and compare against some of their ACA's of similar size, color and clarity. Ask them to evaluate why this only made their "expert selection" instead of their ACA as it looks gorgeous. Although I might know. There was a thread a few weeks ago where someone was considering a stone from them and it was branded ACA. Exact details are a little fuzzy, but the jist was that a question got brought up about the edge and @Texas Leaguer (VP of WF) weighed in and said the stone would be removed from ACA and regraded appropriately. I don't recall all the details, but this may be the stone based on the image below.

FYI, when I was doing my own shopping I had narrowed the field to some ACA's and an expert selection. When pulled, the gemologist kept picking the expert selection over those other ACA's indicating it was gorgeous. I mention this because I don't want you thinking it is anything bad because it's not ACA branded.

Capture.PNG
 
Last edited:
sledge said:
At the very least, I'd call WF and have them pull that stone and compare against some of their ACA's of similar size, color and clarity. Ask them to evaluate why this only made their "expert selection" instead of their ACA as it looks gorgeous. Although I might know. There was a thread a few weeks ago where someone was considering a stone from them and it was branded ACA. Exact details are a little fuzzy, but the jist was that a question got brought up about the edge and @Texas Leaguer (VP of WF) weighed in and said the stone would be removed from ACA and regraded appropriately. I don't recall all the details, but this may be the stone based on the image below.

FYI, when I was doing my own shopping I had narrowed the field to some ACA's and an expert selection. When pulled, the gemologist kept picking the expert selection over those other ACA's indicating it was gorgeous. I mention this because I don't want you thinking it is anything bad because it's not ACA branded.
Capture.PNG
Click to expand...
You are correct @sledge! Upon further review this diamond has been downgraded to Expert Selection for the slight digging out on an upper girdle facet, tiny bit of leakage visible in IS and ASET, and slight asymmetries in the hearts pattern. A classic "near miss" for ACA. It will be repriced slightly lower as a result.
 
Texas Leaguer said:
You are correct @sledge! Upon further review this diamond has been downgraded to Expert Selection for the slight digging out on an upper girdle facet, tiny bit of leakage visible in IS and ASET, and slight asymmetries in the hearts pattern. A classic "near miss" for ACA. It will be repriced slightly lower as a result.
Click to expand...

There you have it from the man himself! Thank you @Texas Leaguer for weighing in.

In short it was an ACA and then downgraded for minor issues. I still think it's worth considering and will be better than the majority of stones out there.

If the ACA is important than here is one alternate still in your $14k criteria. Essentially same specs. Carat weight is less but L and W dimensions are just slightly a few fractions of a mm larger.

Make sure they confirm eye clean although site says it is. Also might use as a comparison against the expert select stone as they are very similar.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3897562.htm
 
For the minor difference in performance, I'd take the price break on the Expert Selection. You still get all the upgrade benefits of WF.

If you want to pursue the JA diamonds, I'd get the IS requests in to see which they can and cannot offer. To my knowledge, they never give ASET for rounds.
 
I'm with @rockysalamander. I like the stone we talked about that WF chimed in on. I think it's a good value for the money and you are essentially getting a "near miss" ACA stone which will perform beautifully and has all the images and videos to give you the warm fuzzies to help you make a good decision.

Because of WF's transparency and ease to work with combined with their killer upgrade policy and vast selection of settings, it seems like a no brainer to me.

FYI, if you are thinking that 1.8ct stone from JA is "bigger" just remember it's marginal. Carat weight is determined by taking L x W x D. Yes, the 1.8ct stone is about 0.10mm larger in the length & width dimensions than the 1.7ct WF stone. But that is less than 1/196th of an inch and remember it takes about 0.20mm to even see a difference with the human eye. The 1.8ct is also has more depth. Of course, you can't visually see the depth once the ring is set but that is part of reason that carat weight is such a bad way to determine stone size.
 
Thanks Rocky, awesome suggestion. I do prefer that to the Ritani round halo.

Now it is down to Ritani cushion halo vs. Amphora round halo.

The cushion halo makes the whole ring look more substantial, but the round halo also looks great and has diamonds on the halo "legs" which will make it pop more when viewed from lower angles.
 
If talking about the light performance, I will easily choose the 1.733 I SI1. It's a great recommendsation. But one thing to take note about the feather inclusions of this diamond are around the edges. Try ask their expert if there's no issues on this? :mrgreen2:

hielam said:
Thanks for the advice! I am definitely looking for value but not really stuck on anything else!

I wil call WF and get them to place that diamond on hold. Is there anything else I should ask them?

Will that diamond in a halo ring have a noticeable color difference? It looks less yellow than the JA diamonds, but that could also be the black vs white background. I guess I can ask them WF on the color as well and see what they think. I originally thought it would not be distinguishable to the untrained eye, but I also thought the three I picked were pretty good, haha.

Between these three:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075973.htm

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4879423

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3208462

Which would you recommend and why? I can ask for IS images but am worried about using up my 3 IS images lol.

I am probably placing too much emphasis on the H and true hearts designations but those are the only things I can rely on other than my untrained eyes, haha.

Thanks again for all your help! So glad I found this site!
Click to expand...
 
Just a thought but if the Amphora is an in-house design, then I'd talk to them and see if they can modify it so you get that setting with a cushion halo. Seems very doable and WF offers "custom" work. Odds are, they have already modified and built one like that.

Then you get your cake and to eat it too. ;)2
 
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