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Need help evaluating oval diamonds

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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I'd pass on that one. It's only sparkly in certain areas (and not many). The rest is just white blah-ness.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Not good...no defined, sharp, crisp facets. Mushiness, gray dullness under table.
 

Serg

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Rockdiamond

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hi ib0424,
I can't comment on specific stones - but I can make general comments.
When looking for ovals, keep in mind that you will see both "Oval Brilliant" and "Oval Modified Brilliant".
IN general, OMB is more common in Fancy Colored Ovals. Part of the reason is something Serg alluded to- the basic OMB design is more friendly to showing color, as opposed to hiding it.
But this is not a hard and fast rule.
There's lovely OMB colorless stones, and some a$$-kicking Fancy Colored OB ovals.

What was identified as "mushy" is associated with the type of light performance more common in OMB's. While it does mean that there's less "sharp" facets in the middle of the stone, it also pretty much eliminates any bow tie. OB stones are more likely to have some sort of bow tie, though it might be a pleasant one.
 

Gypsy

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Serg

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Gypsy|1452934353|3976711 said:
lb0424|1452871598|3976353 said:
Hi PS community,

How do a beginner start to learn about what constitutes a great oval cut diamond?

Would this be consider a good one? Why or why not?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/3.20-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-773817

Thanks! :wavey:

Well, it's dead and doesn't sparkle. That's would be why it's a terrible choice.
Gypsy,
Please send link to oval cut which looks much better in same light environment ( which is not dead and have much more sparkles )
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,198
Serg|1452949335|3976728 said:
Gypsy|1452934353|3976711 said:
lb0424|1452871598|3976353 said:
Hi PS community,

How do a beginner start to learn about what constitutes a great oval cut diamond?

Would this be consider a good one? Why or why not?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/3.20-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-773817

Thanks! :wavey:

Well, it's dead and doesn't sparkle. That's would be why it's a terrible choice.
Gypsy,
Please send link to oval cut which looks much better in same light environment ( which is not dead and have much more sparkles )


Serg, I am having a bad couple weeks. So I'm going to flat out decline any "vendor challenges". If you disagree with me, feel free to say so and engaged the op. But LEAVE ME ALONE. Got it? And that goes to all vendors. Whether or not I like you (And Serg I've never had a problem with you). I come here to unwind and I am not in the mood for any "prosumer" versus "vendor" drama. SO I respectfully decline.


lb0424, if you want me to post stones that in my opinion will have better performance I am happy to post stones for you either as an educational exercise or for your consideration to purchase.

For the record for a large well performing oval I recommend you call Good Old Gold, Brilliantly Engaged or Victor Canera, all of whom have a great track record for finding lovely ovals, and working with them.
 

lb0424

Rough_Rock
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Rockdiamond|1452885393|3976461 said:
hi ib0424,
I can't comment on specific stones - but I can make general comments.
When looking for ovals, keep in mind that you will see both "Oval Brilliant" and "Oval Modified Brilliant".
IN general, OMB is more common in Fancy Colored Ovals. Part of the reason is something Serg alluded to- the basic OMB design is more friendly to showing color, as opposed to hiding it.
But this is not a hard and fast rule.
There's lovely OMB colorless stones, and some a$$-kicking Fancy Colored OB ovals.

What was identified as "mushy" is associated with the type of light performance more common in OMB's. While it does mean that there's less "sharp" facets in the middle of the stone, it also pretty much eliminates any bow tie. OB stones are more likely to have some sort of bow tie, though it might be a pleasant one.
Thank you Rockdiamond for explaining that there is a difference between a OMB and OB cut! I guess as a beginner, I did not know there was this difference. I could only tell that the center of the OMB did not have the patterned windmill look of a MB or OB. Thank you for pointing that out. Where can I read more about the difference between these two oval cuts? Is one cut more often seen than the other?

Gypsy - thank you for pointing out your preference and do you mind sending me some links of ovals that you like for my education and possible future purchase.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sure thing.

I'll post some in different photo formats and tell you what I look for/see in each that makes me like it.

Okay? Part of the difficulty of shopping online for fancies is that vendors all use different photo and ASET formats so comparing stones from two different sites can be very similar to the process of intentionally giving yourself a migraine. So keep that in mind. It helps is you can learn to read both a WHITE and a BLACK background ASET and a "real" stone ASET versus a computer generated one.

ASETs, oversimpified, is a reflector image that shows you how your diamond is performing by evaluating the type of light performance. red is best as it is direct reflection of light, green is good as it is indirect reflected light, white (if white background) or black (if black background) is light lost (going through stone to background), and blue is obstruction, also not good.

So that's actually what I am going to start off with for you. But not with ovals. With Princesses and cushions, because there are more examples of that.

Here below are two charts that show A) the stone picture B) a white background ASET and C) a black background ASET. So most vendors will provide EITHER one or the other. NOT BOTH. So you have to learn to read both and be able to translate each one to what that means for stone performance. Once you get used to a photo set up (after like months of looking at the photos at a vendor site and comparing it to ASETs) you can sometimes predict how that photo set up will translate to an ASET. And that's what the prosumers on this board do. We educate our eyes with the different photo set ups, compare them to the ASETs we see from that vendor, and some of us-- like me, have been lucky enough to see actual stones in person from vendors like JA and have an ASET at home-- to compare that to the 'stone only' picture of the stones so we learn how to pick stones that have a better chance of performing well.

So study these pictures below and see if you can see what you need to understand about ASETs in general.

comparisonsofprincesscutasets.jpg

asetimagesforcushioncuts.jpg
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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So now ovals.

With ovals... the average oval asets will show a lot of white/black. And much less red than green. And if there is a bowtie (95% of the time) you don't want a blue bowtie. But even a bright red one can be problematic. Which is why with ovals you IDEALLY want a video. Why? So you can see how the facets flash on and off.

Also, like cushions, there are a lot of different facet plots for ovals. Some have 6 pavilion mains. Some have 4, some have 8. When you see a stone you like, if it is over a carat, it will have a facet plot on the GIA lab report. Look at it and see what the facet plot is. And then compare that to other stones of the same or different facet plot so you can see if there is one you prefer the look of. Labs do not grade ovals for cut. So ignore ANY vendor ratings of ovals, and judge them yourself based on faceting and light performance.

And because of the bow tie issue, you have to be really careful to allow for the largest possible pool so don't try to narrow down your specs to G VS only. You want to look at G or better (So G-D) and just "eyeclean' as clarity for example. So that you get the largest pool of possible candidates to mine for a winner.

And this is all why we recommend GOG for ovals. They can do BOTH black and white backgrounds for ASETs. Can do videos. And they themselves have a great eye for fancies and will hunt out the best choices to present to you.


So I'll post some stones that I think are problematic from James Allen first. And I'll tell you a little about each stone.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-566111 BAD bowtie. 8 main oval facet pattern. With a very shallow depth. Some people have a theory that shallow ovals will bowtie more. There are exceptions to that rule, and I have seen them, but as a general rule I have found some merit to that theory. This one will likely have pure blue on that bowtie in the ASET.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.02-carat-d-color-if-clarity-sku-324365 Largely dead under the table. You see that pale gray tone too all the facets under the table most of the way around? How even when they reflect the light it's not really sharp and crisp? This one will probably be largely black (JA uses black ASET background) under the table. You generally want to avoid any stone that has too much of that greyish flat facet look on it. Which is what the one you chose does. 6 main oval with a depth over 60 so not too shallow.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.24-carat-d-color-if-clarity-sku-289846 This one is an odd stone. It has very sharp contrast zone. All those dark gray spots may light up red on the ASET, which would make you think that it's a good stone (they could be blue too though it's a toss up for me). But when you watch that pattern flash around in the video its very distracting and very unpleasant, and seizure inspiring to me. 8 main facet pattern. Also shallow.

This one has a similar problem to that one: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.53-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-296984 But actually it's a more even on and off. Right along the middle. If you look at the way the light moves across the stone. Either the top half is lit up, or the bottom half. Never both. So ALL of the time half of the stone is turned off. Not good. Not sure if that lab report is the right one. It says marquise and the stone is an oval. FYI.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Now ones that I think have positive potential and tell you why I like them, but also tell you what potential issues could be.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.04-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-608976 So this stone is evenly bright at the center and the tips. Have has a lot of sharp splintery facets that turn off and on. Small ones, so the light return is very fast across the stone. Doesn't show a strong bowtie, even when really tilted. Which is rare in such an elongated stone. Typically you get the least bowtie in rovals, the closer to round the theory goes, the less the bowtie likelihood. There are exceptions to all rules with fancies though. Flaws: It has grey areas at 3 and 9 that could be black on the aset, and look like there cold be deadness there. So really it It depends on how much of that grey is lost light. 6 main facet with a depth over 64 (which is what one vendor told me you want in ovals to minimize bowties, again, there are exceptions) It has a high crown and thick girdle. The biggest issue with this stone for me is that it might just be mostly bright green on an ASET with very little red. That would mean that it's evenly bright (which you can see from the video) but doesn't get a lot of direct light reflection. But there is also the possibility that the 'star' shaped facets at the center and the facets at the tip light up with a nice amount of red, while the rest comes up green. That would be a great ASET and along with the way the stone glitters in the video means it would be potentially an exceptionally nice stone.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.12-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-205003 This is a less elongated version of that last stone. Similar strengths and weaknesses. Just DITTO above for this one.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-if-clarity-sku-674340 Really spready stone. Not too shallow but depth is under 64. Still not seeing a classic bowtie and the stone has a nice amount of life with both large and small facets turning on and off. At a tilted angle there is a bowtie /a version of that half on half off effect. But it's not bad at all, especially given how elongated it is. Tiny table, perfect girdle, decent crown but not really high, that all adds to the spread. It looks like someone spent time cutting it. So it has promise. Four main facet pattern.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.71-carat-d-color-if-clarity-sku-329753 This one does have a bowtie. But it blends well and is likely to ASET as a mostly red, but not solid red. The stone looks the nicest at the center. But the outside facets show some promise. It's really gong to depend on how much bright green and red is on the outside facets of this one. But it's got promise. 6 main with depth over 64. Really pretty outline and ratio on this one. It's like the 'perfect oval' shape.


Honorable mentions (and not in a good way):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/3.73-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-758225 Photo set up or cutting. Avoid anything that looks like this mess at JA. Blurry indistinct facets never bode well. You want crisp facets that are distinct at this magnification and that flash instead of fuzzily doing whatever.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
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lb0424|1453075119|3977295 said:
Rockdiamond|1452885393|3976461 said:
hi ib0424,
I can't comment on specific stones - but I can make general comments.
When looking for ovals, keep in mind that you will see both "Oval Brilliant" and "Oval Modified Brilliant".
IN general, OMB is more common in Fancy Colored Ovals. Part of the reason is something Serg alluded to- the basic OMB design is more friendly to showing color, as opposed to hiding it.
But this is not a hard and fast rule.
There's lovely OMB colorless stones, and some a$$-kicking Fancy Colored OB ovals.

What was identified as "mushy" is associated with the type of light performance more common in OMB's. While it does mean that there's less "sharp" facets in the middle of the stone, it also pretty much eliminates any bow tie. OB stones are more likely to have some sort of bow tie, though it might be a pleasant one.
Thank you Rockdiamond for explaining that there is a difference between a OMB and OB cut! I guess as a beginner, I did not know there was this difference. I could only tell that the center of the OMB did not have the patterned windmill look of a MB or OB. Thank you for pointing that out. Where can I read more about the difference between these two oval cuts? Is one cut more often seen than the other?

Gypsy - thank you for pointing out your preference and do you mind sending me some links of ovals that you like for my education and possible future purchase.
I much more often see OB than OMB. OB pattern is much more easy to cut. I never saw OB that I like. Brilliant pattern is fine only for round girdle shape. Some OMB is much worse than OB but some OWB is better than best OB. Good colorless OWB is very rare and it is not easy to find. You selected very interesting sample but "I" color is bad choice for such cuts.
D-H colors are reasonable colors for most OB. But even H and sometimes G is not good choice for some OWB. Most OWB are much more sensitive for color.
please remember that LAB color grade is from Pavilion side. Table color looks quite differently specially if you consider low colors and fancy cuts as Oval.
In worst case you see different color zones from Table direction, usually "knots " area are more yellowish.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Last post. Used to be that JA would give you 3 ASETs on any stone. So we could pick three and see how the ASETs compare to my comments. I loved that. It was a great tool for learning for me and for the shoppers. THey don't do that anymore. They only ASET certain stones now. It's irksome for buyers. And I personally would not recommend that someone buy an oval online without an ASET. I have one at home, but not everyone does. And I do think that as PART of the picture (not the whole picture) of the stone's dossier an ASET is useful, especially when you are comparing stones to one another.


Now, here's the challenge. Take all of that above.

And look at these. I know, not having the same video/photo makes it hard. BUT, these all have the ASETs posted. And after that, you should be able to make some educated guesses about these. Some are good, some are not, some of them are so/so. See if you can pick which ones have "potential" and which ones are "dogs" and which ones are "so/so."

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-25-Carat-D-Color-VVS1-Clarity-Diamond-HZ6PUT
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-8-Carat-E-Color-VVS1-Clarity-Diamond-RN16JW
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-0-Carat-E-Color-IF-Clarity-Diamond-TAU83S
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-2-0-Carat-G-Color-VVS2-Clarity-Diamond-KNS4HE
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-0-Carat-D-Color-VS1-Clarity-Diamond-GNKLDC
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-01-Carat-F-Color-VS1-Clarity-Diamond-8HS7EW
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-01-Carat-E-Color-VS1-Clarity-Diamond-5YX9EB
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-0-Carat-G-Color-VVS2-Clarity-Diamond-F3NG68
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-0-Carat-G-Color-VVS2-Clarity-Diamond-NVCZDR
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-51-Carat-E-Color-IF-Clarity-Diamond-FRGHM8
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-5-Carat-G-Color-VS1-Clarity-Diamond-CLUA2W
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-08-Carat-G-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-1QXFN9

I only included stone with a real ASET up there. But just so you can see, this is what a computer generated one looks like:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Oval/GIA-Certified-1-01-Carat-D-Color-IF-Clarity-Diamond-H2JCE7
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,198
Oops. One note. Blue is not always bad in an ASET. If you look at a RB or a cushion's ASET. You may see blue ON PURPOSE, sometimes it shows up as black or white (background) too. That's planned obstruction, or patterning. Like the below:

screen_shot_2015-03-01_at_5_1.png

Those arrows are supposed to be blue. That's the pattern. :read: It's all perfectly clear now right? :wall: :wall: :wall:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Serg|1453100442|3977430 said:
lb0424|1453075119|3977295 said:
Rockdiamond|1452885393|3976461 said:
hi ib0424,
I can't comment on specific stones - but I can make general comments.
When looking for ovals, keep in mind that you will see both "Oval Brilliant" and "Oval Modified Brilliant".
IN general, OMB is more common in Fancy Colored Ovals. Part of the reason is something Serg alluded to- the basic OMB design is more friendly to showing color, as opposed to hiding it.
But this is not a hard and fast rule.
There's lovely OMB colorless stones, and some a$$-kicking Fancy Colored OB ovals.

What was identified as "mushy" is associated with the type of light performance more common in OMB's. While it does mean that there's less "sharp" facets in the middle of the stone, it also pretty much eliminates any bow tie. OB stones are more likely to have some sort of bow tie, though it might be a pleasant one.
Thank you Rockdiamond for explaining that there is a difference between a OMB and OB cut! I guess as a beginner, I did not know there was this difference. I could only tell that the center of the OMB did not have the patterned windmill look of a MB or OB. Thank you for pointing that out. Where can I read more about the difference between these two oval cuts? Is one cut more often seen than the other?

Gypsy - thank you for pointing out your preference and do you mind sending me some links of ovals that you like for my education and possible future purchase.
I much more often see OB than OMB. OB pattern is much more easy to cut. I never saw OB that I like. Brilliant pattern is fine only for round girdle shape. Some OMB is much worse than OB but some OWB is better than best OB. Good colorless OWB is very rare and it is not easy to find. You selected very interesting sample but "I" color is bad choice for such cuts.
D-H colors are reasonable colors for most OB. But even H and sometimes G is not good choice for some OWB. Most OWB are much more sensitive for color.
please remember that LAB color grade is from Pavilion side. Table color looks quite differently specially if you consider low colors and fancy cuts as Oval.
In worst case you see different color zones from Table direction, usually "knots " area are more yellowish.
Serg, I want to apologize for my harsh tone yesterday. You did not deserve it. Though the sentiment hold true, and I am taxed well beyond my normal ability to handle stress, I do regret being so harsh.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
40,198
Forgot something else as well.

I said I would show you different photo set ups. Here is GOG's. Ignore the inclusions on the stones and focus on the pictures, especially the black and white "inclusion" images, because they often show you a lot of about how the stone is reflecting light at the camera in a way 'normal' pictures do not. GOG primarily uses the white background ASET now, though they can take black background now. The reason they do that is because, it is felt that the white background ASET is more "honest" and shows, instead of covers up flaws. You can make your own mind up from the above about that. But I agree with that, personally.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/2.63ct-m-si2-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-5ct-h-vs1-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-35ct-e-vs2-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-5ct-g-si2-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1ct-h-vs1-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-7ct-h-vs1-oval-diamond.html blue ASET bowtie.

I personally love ovals. Oval brilliants (OB's) are my preference personally, because finding a good OMB is hard outside of colored diamonds, and I like the pattern of the 'star' faceting at the center. However, my 'favorite' oval I have ever seen (and it was in person) was an OMB D color and at only just over a carat. It was an exceptional stone. And it had a small open culet. :love:

Finally, here are the 15 most common oval facet plots according to AGS posted below. Your eyes are gonna cross, I'm warning you now.

variations-pavilion-facets-oval-brilliant-cut-diamonds-courtesy-ags-laboratory.png
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
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Gypsy|1453104480|3977440 said:
Forgot something else as well.

I said I would show you different photo set ups. Here is GOG's. Ignore the inclusions on the stones and focus on the pictures, especially the black and white "inclusion" images, because they often show you a lot of about how the stone is reflecting light at the camera in a way 'normal' pictures do not. GOG primarily uses the white background ASET now, though they can take black background now. The reason they do that is because, it is felt that the white background ASET is more "honest" and shows, instead of covers up flaws. You can make your own mind up from the above about that. But I agree with that, personally.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/2.63ct-m-si2-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-5ct-h-vs1-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-35ct-e-vs2-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-5ct-g-si2-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1ct-h-vs1-oval-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-7ct-h-vs1-oval-diamond.html blue ASET bowtie.

I personally love ovals. Oval brilliants (OB's) are my preference personally, because finding a good OMB is hard outside of colored diamonds, and I like the pattern of the 'star' faceting at the center. However, my 'favorite' oval I have ever seen (and it was in person) was an OMB D color and at only just over a carat. It was an exceptional stone. And it had a small open culet. :love:

Finally, here are the 15 most common oval facet plots according to AGS posted below. Your eyes are gonna cross, I'm warning you now.
I know a decent amount about ovals and MY eyes are crossed Gypsy! I'm absolutely amazed and your knowledge (amazed, but not surprised). Would I be correct that the oval facet patterns above apply to modern stones and not antiques like mine? Just curious....

I'm sorry that you're so stressed and hope that things improve ASAP.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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HI ib0424,
Wow, you've been given a whole lot of stuff to learn.
The great thing is, you really can do without a lot of it.
Some of what's written here about aset is not true ( for example, Red is by no ,means "better" than green), but thankfully there's no need to debate a lot of what was written about aset here because you don't need an one to select an oval. It will only needlessly complicate your job.
ASET is not helpful at all for most consumers selecting an oval. If you had an oval you loved, and knew what the aset looked like, you could get a clue that a second stone looked like it by looking at an aset. But even that's not definitive.

Any expert familiar with ovals, and ASETs will agree with this.
**edited by moderator, no name calling will be tolerated**

All the different plots: based on long hard experience looking at many thousands of stones, the plot itself won't be of any help determining if you will love the diamond. That is to say, two diamonds with the exact same plot can look very different in real life.

In terms of OMB versus OB; Serg and I are on different continents- I'm in New York City- maybe that accounts for the difference in what we see on the market.
I have indeed seen Oval Brilliant Diamonds that I loved in both colorless as well as Fancy Colored stones.
IN terms of color, again, Serg and I have different experiences.
Some people are very color sensitive, in which case, I do agree you need to stick to G+ color, and in general, Oval Brilliant is a better choice fir white light return.
BUT- there's also plenty of folks that actually prefer a "softer white"- in which case you can expand your search down to K color.
I agree that OMB in general, shows more color, but not always.

Your initial question asked how to actually learn about how to evaluate an oval diamond- and the only way to do that with your own tastes in mind is to see them first hand. Remember, we're talking about an item which is deigned to please your eye- so your own eyes are essential.

Are you in an area where you can see stones in person?
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
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As to ovals, besides the obvious facts a lot depends on personal preference. It is one of my most favorite shapes but I have a very strong preference when it comes to the shape, depth and facet pattern of an oval.

You will likely find that even if a stone is very nice with crisp faceting, a facet pattern that appeals to you and of course as little of that dreaded bowtie as possible, certain shapes will just not appeal to you. In general most people either like fat ovals or elongated ovals. Most tend to have a strong preference.

When it comes to fancies, much is left to your personal taste as there are much more gray areas than in the case of rounds.

Gypsy, wow, what a lecture, thank you from all of us :clap: ! This is why Pricescope can be so great in educating consumers and you certainly put a lot of effort into this. I really enjoyed reading and looking at your examples. Even if my preference may occasionally differ ;-) (which as I have said is often the case when different people choose fancies), your advice is a great asset to the community. :appl: Cheers to all.

Hope that OP found some nice stones among those you and/or others recommended.
 

Serg

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Rockdiamond|1453153414|3977644 said:
HI ib0424,
Wow, you've been given a whole lot of stuff to learn.
The great thing is, you really can do without a lot of it.
Some of what's written here about aset is not true ( for example, Red is by no ,means "better" than green), but thankfully there's no need to debate a lot of what was written about aset here because you don't need an one to select an oval. It will only needlessly complicate your job.
ASET is not helpful at all for most consumers selecting an oval. If you had an oval you loved, and knew what the aset looked like, you could get a clue that a second stone looked like it by looking at an aset. But even that's not definitive.

Any expert familiar with ovals, and ASETs will agree with this.
**edited by moderator, no name calling will be tolerated**

All the different plots: based on long hard experience looking at many thousands of stones, the plot itself won't be of any help determining if you will love the diamond. That is to say, two diamonds with the exact same plot can look very different in real life.

In terms of OMB versus OB; Serg and I are on different continents- I'm in New York City- maybe that accounts for the difference in what we see on the market.
I have indeed seen Oval Brilliant Diamonds that I loved in both colorless as well as Fancy Colored stones.
IN terms of color, again, Serg and I have different experiences.
Some people are very color sensitive, in which case, I do agree you need to stick to G+ color, and in general, Oval Brilliant is a better choice fir white light return.
BUT- there's also plenty of folks that actually prefer a "softer white"- in which case you can expand your search down to K color.
I agree that OMB in general, shows more color, but not always.

Your initial question asked how to actually learn about how to evaluate an oval diamond- and the only way to do that with your own tastes in mind is to see them first hand. Remember, we're talking about an item which is deigned to please your eye- so your own eyes are essential.

Are you in an area where you can see stones in person?
David,

Seems you missed my main statement about color in ovals.

"Softer white"=yellowish would be fine if color has uniform distribution in diamond crown pattern. Uniform "Softer white" color can be even invisible , specially in yellow gold settings .
The problem is the unevenness in color pattern due different length path's for different cut parts. Oval cuts usually have such unevenness in color pattern. it become easy visible for I colors and it does not looks nice.
also it does some oval parts more dark, less brilliant. You would easy see it in comparison with better colors.
 

lb0424

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Messages
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Serg|1453100442|3977430 said:
Brilliant pattern is fine only for round girdle shape. Some OMB is much worse than OB but some OWB is better than best OB. Good colorless OWB is very rare and it is not easy to find. You selected very interesting sample but "I" color is bad choice for such cuts.
First of all, a huge thanks to Gypsy in answering my question in such details with examples. It will take me some time to look over your posts in detail. I am sure that I will have some more questions in a few days.

Just for some clarification: Serg -do mean OMB when you typed 'OWB' in your previous post? You mentioned that a good colorless 'OWB' is very rare. Is it because it is a difficult cut such that cutters are no longer trying to cut this shape or there is just no demand for it?

Also, yennyfire, your avatar ring is beautiful! Is antique oval equivalent to a OMB cut or not necessarily? Where can you find antique oval cuts in general?

Thank you, PS community!
 

yennyfire

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lb0424|1453232732|3978072 said:
Serg|1453100442|3977430 said:
Brilliant pattern is fine only for round girdle shape. Some OMB is much worse than OB but some OWB is better than best OB. Good colorless OWB is very rare and it is not easy to find. You selected very interesting sample but "I" color is bad choice for such cuts.
First of all, a huge thanks to Gypsy in answering my question in such details with examples. It will take me some time to look over your posts in detail. I am sure that I will have some more questions in a few days.

Just for some clarification: Serg -do mean OMB when you typed 'OWB' in your previous post? You mentioned that a good colorless 'OWB' is very rare. Is it because it is a difficult cut such that cutters are no longer trying to cut this shape or there is just no demand for it?

Also, yennyfire, your avatar ring is beautiful! Is antique oval equivalent to a OMB cut or not necessarily? Where can you find antique oval cuts in general?

Thank you, PS community!
Thanks lb0424! I believe that an antique OMB and a modern cut OMB are two different animals, at least in terms of appearance. My antique oval has the large facets, higher crown and open cutlet that antique stones tend to have. Modern ovals don't necessarily have those features. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mistaken. :angel: As to where you can find them, they are fairly rare. Jewels By Grace had a stunning one a few months ago in a gorgeous setting that was snapped up immediately. I've seen one, maybe two others in addition to mine. If that's what you decide you want and you're willing to be patient, I'd put out feelers to Grace at Jewels by Grace, Adam and Old World Diamonds and Erika at Love Affair Diamonds. There may be a couple I'm missing, but it's a good start.
 

Rockdiamond

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Serg|1453212542|3977863 said:
David,

Seems you missed my main statement about color in ovals.

"Softer white"=yellowish would be fine if color has uniform distribution in diamond crown pattern. Uniform "Softer white" color can be even invisible , specially in yellow gold settings .
The problem is the unevenness in color pattern due different length path's for different cut parts. Oval cuts usually have such unevenness in color pattern. it become easy visible for I colors and it does not looks nice.
also it does some oval parts more dark, less brilliant. You would easy see it in comparison with better colors.
HI Serg,
I think we probably agree than many- or even most ovals are not very well cut. The reason I feel our locations may impact the type of advice we'd give is that we may see very different types of oval diamonds on a daily basis. IMO "usually" does not matter to any single specific diamond.
I have found some lovely OMB's in I-K colors- the nicest ones do not show an uneven color.

Based on the the shape of an oval, when you superimpose the Brilliant Pavilion design from a round ( OB), you're going to have main facets on the pavilion that vary widely in terms of shape and size. The different sized pavilion mains may also cause unevenness in color. Because of this aspect, sometimes the OMB design can produce a more even result.



Another aspect of this discussion that I find to be very important is that if we accept the fact that any oval diamond of I-J color is not worth considering ( which I do not), we're eliminating some viable candidates.
Same thing with ASET and the limitation of it.
If ASET imagery causes viable candidates to be eliminated, then consumers are pushed into higher colors, or smaller stones for their budget.
I-J color is not for everyone, but some people prefer it to a D
 

Rockdiamond

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yennyfire|1453238786|3978137 said:
Thanks lb0424! I believe that an antique OMB and a modern cut OMB are two different animals, at least in terms of appearance. My antique oval has the large facets, higher crown and open cutlet that antique stones tend to have. Modern ovals don't necessarily have those features. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mistaken. :angel: As to where you can find them, they are fairly rare. Jewels By Grace had a stunning one a few months ago in a gorgeous setting that was snapped up immediately. I've seen one, maybe two others in addition to mine. If that's what you decide you want and you're willing to be patient, I'd put out feelers to Grace at Jewels by Grace, Adam and Old World Diamonds and Erika at Love Affair Diamonds. There may be a couple I'm missing, but it's a good start.
Totally agree Yenny- your stone has an open culet, which is very rarely seen on modern ovals.
Many antique stones utilize an open culet, and many have smaller table/ higher crown combo.
Another noteworthy feature would be a much shallower pavilion so the stone ends up having a depth far less than a modern stone. This can be a huge asset as you end up with a 2ct that looks like a 3ct.

I also agree that nice looking antique style ovals are rare as chicken's teeth
 

Gypsy

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Messages
40,198
I didn't mean to overload you with information.

I was in need of distraction and this provided it.

Take what you will from it. And leave what doesn't work for you.

:wavey:
 

Rockdiamond

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I should add too that in spite of our different outlooks, I very much respect Gypsy because she is totally 100% dedicated to helping consumers. I'm sure Gypsy, and others will take more time to help you pick specific stones.
There is a lot of info here- some of it conflicting, but that aspect is an informative, spirited discussion between veterans of analyzing diamonds from different spheres.
Please don't let the side discussion sidetrack your search.
 

Gypsy

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Sunstorm|1453211094|3977855 said:
As to ovals, besides the obvious facts a lot depends on personal preference. It is one of my most favorite shapes but I have a very strong preference when it comes to the shape, depth and facet pattern of an oval.

You will likely find that even if a stone is very nice with crisp faceting, a facet pattern that appeals to you and of course as little of that dreaded bowtie as possible, certain shapes will just not appeal to you. In general most people either like fat ovals or elongated ovals. Most tend to have a strong preference.

When it comes to fancies, much is left to your personal taste as there are much more gray areas than in the case of rounds.

Gypsy, wow, what a lecture, thank you from all of us :clap: ! This is why Pricescope can be so great in educating consumers and you certainly put a lot of effort into this. I really enjoyed reading and looking at your examples. Even if my preference may occasionally differ ;-) (which as I have said is often the case when different people choose fancies), your advice is a great asset to the community. :appl: Cheers to all.

Hope that OP found some nice stones among those you and/or others recommended.
I agree with you Sunstorm.
This is actually my personal favorite of the ovals I looked through:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.74-carat-e-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-302610 I personally like ratios of 1.3-1.4, smaller tables and higher crowns. I didn't post it though, because I didn't want to push my personal preferences. So I posted a large variety of stones and tried to evaluate them objectively, because I don't know the specific preferences that lb0442 has.
 

Serg

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lb0424|1453232732|3978072 said:
Serg|1453100442|3977430 said:
Brilliant pattern is fine only for round girdle shape. Some OMB is much worse than OB but some OWB is better than best OB. Good colorless OWB is very rare and it is not easy to find. You selected very interesting sample but "I" color is bad choice for such cuts.
First of all, a huge thanks to Gypsy in answering my question in such details with examples. It will take me some time to look over your posts in detail. I am sure that I will have some more questions in a few days.

Just for some clarification: Serg -do mean OMB when you typed 'OWB' in your previous post? You mentioned that a good colorless 'OWB' is very rare. Is it because it is a difficult cut such that cutters are no longer trying to cut this shape or there is just no demand for it?

Also, yennyfire, your avatar ring is beautiful! Is antique oval equivalent to a OMB cut or not necessarily? Where can you find antique oval cuts in general?

Thank you, PS community!
Hi lb0424,

Yes, it has to be OMB, sorry for strange misprint.

there are many reason why good OMB are rare:
1) technologies to cut standard OB is a little bit more simple than to cut OB.
2) market less respect any "Modified " cut. some consumers and "experts" consider modification as cheating from cutters with goal to receive better yield .
3) there are not technology to select good fancy cuts. Cutters would receive some premium for symmetry, for good ASET image , but usually they can not receive premium for optical performance .
4) It is very difficult to develop and produce Oval design with uniform VF pattern.
 
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