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sjk

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
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Hi Friends,

I need help deciding a diamond ring. Below are the specs from the EGL cert of the loose diamond and the price is $4000.

Please let me know if its a good one or if I should try to get GIA cert also or look for some other one ?

Diamond Information:
Certificate: EGL
Shape: Round
Carat: 0.75
Color: F
Clarity: IF
Regular Price: $4000

Diamond Proportions:
Measurements: 5.89-5.85x3.58mm
Cut: Ideal
Depth Percentage: 61 %
Table Percentage: 57 %
crown- 15%
pavellin- 43.3 %
Girdle: thin to medium
Culet: very small
Polish: very good
Symmetry: good
Fluorescence: medium blue


Regards,
SJK
 
Welcome to Pricescope
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If you do a search for EGL, you will find that some believe that some EGL labs are soft on grading, this apparently can depend on which branch of EGL did the grading with EGL USA thought to be the strongest out of the EGL labs. Can you let us know which branch of EGL graded this diamond? To name some, there is EGL USA, Antwerp, Israel, Europe etc.

This diamond scored well on the cut advisor, although percents which EGL use are said to not be as accurate as angles, particularly for crown and pavillion, if you could get an Idealscope image for this diamond ( ask the vendor) this would be useful to check for light leakage - and a Sarin Report which gives more accurate measurements of the diamond's dimensions, that would be useful too. This diamond isn't a Superideal top light performer, which is very tightly crafted, but it could be what we call a ' nice make' of cut and look very lovely. It depends on what you want.

Also depending, if an F IF is very important to you, depending, it may be prudent to make the sale contingent on having an independant appraisal done, to make sure the colour and clarity check out.

Also don't go by labels such as Ideal Cut, Premium Cut etc, these in no way mean a diamond has a great cut. If you have seen this diamond and like it, then that is the main thing, otherwise it may be easier to find a pretty diamond to lower your colour and clarity a bit to perhaps a G or H and VS or even a clean SI clarity, then search amongst GIA Excellent cut grade and AGS0.

But if you want to pursue the diamond above, see about an Idealscope image, particularly if you haven't seen the diamond and an independant appraisal. Also it is more difficult to resell or trade in a diamond with an EGL report if in time you want to upgrade, so this may be a consideration too, that perhaps if you have future ideas, to stick with GIA and AGS - plus a vendor who has a lifetime upgrade policy, but you will pay more for a diamond which has been graded by these 2 labs.


http://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp This gives basic info on the Idealscope images, plus you can do a search to learn more.

Hope this helps.
 
Thankyou verymuch for the quick reply. I will check with the vendor if they can provide me with a Idealscope image and a Sarin Report.

When I saw this loose diamond I found it beautiful compared to others, also in 1 CT range which has E, SI1, those were just a laymans visual view as I have just started learning about different aspects of the diamond and wanted to make sure if its worth the price and the came back home and started reading tutorial on diamond and various specs related to diamond.

My budget was initially only 2k but when I saw the F/IF, I felt a difference and I changed my mind as I felt spending a bit more and getting a good quality diamond would make sense, but am not sure if its the right move.

The vendor had asked me if I want it GIA certified and it would take around 1 month to get the report - So do you feel I should get it GIA certified ?

Also for the specs with EGL certification is the price right ?

Also if GIA matches with same specs would it be a right decision to go for, if they cannot provide me with a Idealscope image and a Sarin Report ?

Also I am not sure if my question is right - which would make sense from below

1. Buy 0.75 F - IF - $4100 which shines better

or

2. Buy 1 CT - $4500
color - E
clarity - SI1
certificate - GIA
depth - 84.5%
table - 70%
gridle - thk - ethk
culet - none
polish - excellent
symmetry- good
flourescence- none
key - feather, crystal

I am trying to undersatnd if carat size matter or the shine/quality or how to identify which is the right way to go ..

Thanks for all your help.
 
Date: 11/26/2007 10:11:05 AM
Author: sjk
Thankyou verymuch for the quick reply. I will check with the vendor if they can provide me with a Idealscope image and a Sarin Report.

When I saw this loose diamond I found it beautiful compared to others, also in 1 CT range which has E, SI1, those were just a laymans visual view as I have just started learning about different aspects of the diamond and wanted to make sure if its worth the price and the came back home and started reading tutorial on diamond and various specs related to diamond.

My budget was initially only 2k but when I saw the F/IF, I felt a difference and I changed my mind as I felt spending a bit more and getting a good quality diamond would make sense, but am not sure if its the right move.

As said before, some believe that EGL in some circumstances may be less strict on grading than AGS and GIA, so if having an F IF is important to you, an independant appraisal would be an excellent thing to make sure your colour and clarity check out. It is a matter of preference as to whether to go for high colour and clarity, but that being said, what makes a diamond beautiful assuming it is eyeclean also is the cut.

The vendor had asked me if I want it GIA certified and it would take around 1 month to get the report - So do you feel I should get it GIA certified ?

That is up to you, whether to get this diamond GIA graded, if you are not planning on ever selling it or trading it in, then it may not make any difference. But you need to be sure if you do decide to get it regraded, whether you are committed to buying the diamond. It may check out to be an F IF still, in which case would the vendor want to charge you the price of an F IF GIA graded diamond ( may be considerably more) or whether it grades lower, the price may still be higher than if it had the EGL report. Also you may have to pay for the GIA grading.

Also for the specs with EGL certification is the price right ?

You can use the search tool above to check your prices, punch in your carat size, colour and clarity and search EGL reports only. Bear in mind if this diamond is with a jeweller, the price may well be higher than you will see with online diamonds.
Also if GIA matches with same specs would it be a right decision to go for, if they cannot provide me with a Idealscope image and a Sarin Report ?

The ultimate test is that of your own eyes, personally if I was buying a diamond online regardless of the grading report, I would want an Idealscope image to see how the diamond handles light and to check for potential leakage. Again cut is crucial for a diamond''s beauty, colour and clarity don''t mean much unless there is a great cut to bring the diamond to life.

Also I am not sure if my question is right - which would make sense from below

1. Buy 0.75 F - IF - $4100 which shines better

or

2. Buy 1 CT - $4500
color - E
clarity - SI1
certificate - GIA
depth - 84.5%
table - 70%
gridle - thk - ethk
culet - none
polish - excellent
symmetry- good
flourescence- none
key - feather, crystal

I am trying to undersatnd if carat size matter or the shine/quality or how to identify which is the right way to go ..

Thanks for all your help.

Also with the diamond above, either it isn''t a round or you need to check your numbers for the depth and table. Buying a diamond is a mix of carat, colour, clarity and cut. The carat, colour and clarity won''t work together to make a beautiful diamond without a great cut to make a diamond sparkle, it is so important. Even some SI clarities are eyeclean, so that being the case, you will see no difference between one and an IF clarity, especially if the colour and cut are similar. Some prefer high colour and clarity for purity reasons, but this is in no way necessary to have a beautiful diamond, as long as the cut is there. Ideally you work on your budget, decide what you want for colour and clarity, learn about cut, then see what carat weight you can go for. Better in my book a fabulously cut J SI2 than a badly cut D IF for example.
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Thanks again for your quick response,

I am sorry the specs I mentioned on the 1CT was of a princess cut and not a round one hence the difference. Sorry about the confusion as I was looking for princess before but found round ones to be better hence deviated from princess to round.

So from what I understand it would be a very important step to get Idealscope image but is it something he will give to me when I am there immediately or will he email me, bcos how will I know if the image he sends me is of the actual diamond ? Does the image provide the specs too ? Just wanted to get an idea of how the process works ?

Thanks.
 
I called up the vendor but he was not sure about the Idealscope image nor the sarin reports so its clear he has no idea about it, he was mentioning that there is an image in the EGL report but thats not the one we are looking for.

He said the only thing he can do is send it for GIA certification if needed .

So am not sure how to proceed or where else I can get a diamond in central jersey where they provide all these kind of reports like Idealscope image and sarin.

Please let me know if you have any idea.

Thanks
 
Not all vendors or jewellers provide Idealscope images or Sarin reports unfortunately. In the Pricescope world where most diamond buying is done online, Idealscope images are commonly found as an aid to the consumer who is buying sight unseen. An Idealscope image is very useful to help determine a diamond's light return or if there is any light leakage. Also a Sarin report is very useful to give accurate measurements of crown and pavillion angles etc, as said before, percents aren't believed to be as accurate as angles, and GIA cut grades use angles but round them, so a Sarin can help to give greater accuracy.

Your jeweller/ vendor may not have the Idealscope image available, especially if he has a brick and mortar establishment where he is probably more used to consumers buying by their eyes alone. Online vendors are very used to supplying this information. So where does this leave you? You can proceed and buy a diamond that you have seen and liked, as has been done for many years. Or you can look at the list of online vendors here under resources and consider buying online. It depends on which is the best way for you and how you are most comfortable.

You could check out www.jamesallen.com who is in Maryland, and also Jon at www.goodoldgold.com who is in Long Island. You might be able to make an appointment possibly with these guys and if it isn't too far to travel, you could see a great selection of diamonds in person.
 
Thankyou.

Should I go for AGS certified or GIA certified ?
 
Date: 11/26/2007 2:30:43 PM
Author: sjk
Thankyou.

Should I go for AGS certified or GIA certified ?
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Either would be fine, look at GIA Excellent cut grade and AGS0 as this will help you to find a lovely diamond. Many here prefer to take each diamond regardless on a case by case basis, check out the numbers using the Holloway Cut Advisor under tools which is at the top of the page, and also still like to see Idealscope images. With the GIA Ex, the numbers are rounded, so the Sarin report if available is useful here for more detailed measurements.

Also it is best if buying online to stick to in house diamonds, you can use the search tool above and use the in house option. That way if a vendor owns the diamond instead of it being a ' virtual' stone which appears on many vendor's websites that the cutting houses own, they can look at the diamond for you and often the cut analysis has been done for you. Otherwise with the virtual diamonds, they have to call them in and there may be a charge for that service.

Here is a lovely diamond as an example for you of good numbers, Idealscope image etc to help you see what to look for.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-471573.htm
 
In the Holloway Cut Advisor what do we enter for cutlet - when the report says none or very small or pointed ?

Also its better to have culet as "none" and flourescense as "none" correct ?

Also what should be the result to decide that its perfect cut to purchase ?

Thanks for all your guidance
 
Date: 11/27/2007 2:19:25 PM
Author: sjk
In the Holloway Cut Advisor what do we enter for cutlet - when the report says none or very small or pointed ?

Also its better to have culet as ''none'' and flourescense as ''none'' correct ?

Also what should be the result to decide that its perfect cut to purchase ?

Thanks for all your guidance
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For the culet, you don''t have to enter anything on the HCA.

Fluorescence has many fans here, it is a personal preference. Some even seek it out for lower colour diamonds as they feel it can help the diamond face up whiter. Rarely, strong blue can have a negative effect such as making the diamond look cloudy in some lights, but this is very unusual it seems - just check with your vendor if you encounter one with strong blue to check it out.

A diamond that scores below 2 on the HCA is then considered worthy of further investigation, then you use tools such as an Idealscope image and your own eyes to evaluate. Once you score under 2, a lower score doesn''t mean one diamond is better than another, rather anything scoring below 2 '' passes'' and over 2 '' fails'' so to speak. So aim for a score under 2 for your next step, then Idealscope and also use your vendor''s skill to help you choose.
 
Also regarding culet - none or pointed or very small which one should be considered ?
 
Date: 11/27/2007 3:44:57 PM
Author: sjk
Also regarding culet - none or pointed or very small which one should be considered ?
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Any of the above are fine. "The culet size is listed on a cert and your diamond's culet should be pointed (no culet), very small, small or medium because these are not visible to the naked eye."

Taken from the tutorial for you, basically no worries!

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/culet.asp
 
wheh looking at the specs for HCA in different reprts for the diamond, its varying, so how do we know which is the right report ?

AGS Report
Depth - 61.5
table - 56.1
crown angle - 34.3
pav angle - 40.7

Information on the side of diamond image on main page
Depth - 61.67
table - 56.77
crown angle - 34.51
pav angle - 40.72

Megascope
Depth - 61.6
table - 55.4
crown angle - 34.4
pav angle - 40.9

helium report
Depth - 61.5
table - 56.3
crown angle - 34.42
pav angle - 40.72

Sarin report
Depth - 61.9
table - 57
crown angle - 34.5
pav angle - 40.7

Pls let me know
 
Thanks for your quick reply.

If Size is not the main criteria but overall diamond perfection, do you feel 0.82 is better ?
 
D VS1 is outstanding!!!! The inclusions are so minute in a VS1 that the inclusions are difficult to see with a 10 x loupe! Ironically, Ellen and I both happen to have VS1's. They are a good value because they are VERY clean stones yet you don't pay the extra price premium for VVS or IF, which you sincerely cannot see the difference from the VS1.

I would go with the .82 D VS1 without a doubt!

But I do see this one is still available, and I would not hesitate to buy this one either:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3761/ .82 F VS1
 
Date: 12/15/2007 8:57:42 PM
Author: sjk
Thanks for your quick reply.

If Size is not the main criteria but overall diamond perfection, do you feel 0.82 is better ?
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I think you have two neck and neck diamonds. While there is no IS for the .82, judging by the numbers and H&A pics, it's going to be a stunner. I don't know that one of these would be better than the other.

I picked for size.
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If you end up not being able to decide, have GOG compare them for you.
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Ok great so 0.46 D-IF is out.

Now from 0.82 F VS1 and 0.82 D VS1 which one would be worth going for comparing the overall specs other than one being D and other F ?
 
They are so close in specs, again, neck and neck. Therefore, I''d go with the F and save some money. It will still be colorless.
 
Ok, F VS1 is AGS cert and D VS1 is GIA report, other than saving money - does GIA have better recognition than AGS or its the other way around or it does not matter ?
 
I have hearts and arrows stones that are AGS and GIA certified. Good Old Gold is selecting top quality stones and does the extra testing to back up their decision. Really, both stones are excellent. It''s really a matter of whether you want to pay for D color or get an F, which is still colorless, and pay less.
 
I will add that my ideal stone would be F VS1 balancing top color and clarity with price.
 
Thanks for your reply. I was only looking for GIA before, but I would surely plan for AGS cert diamonds...
 
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