Need help avoiding Tiffany''s

[johnkorean]

Hi, new to the forum. I''m looking to buy my girlfriend an engagement ring, but I made the mistake of letting her take me into Tiffany''s just for fun one day. We both agree that this: http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10024#f+0/0/2005/0/0/2005 is the perfect ring. I love it, she loves it, everyone is happy.

The problem is, I''m going to be a third year law student, meaning I won''t have any income for the next year. Even so, I''m willing to go into manageable debt for her, and I''m confident I can afford $10,000 to $15,000. In that price range, the best I can do at Tiffany''s is roughly .96 carats. My understanding is if I ditch Tiffany''s, I can do much better than that (at equal color, clarity, cut, etc.).

One thing I''m finding, though, is that the pear side stone setting seems pretty uncommon. I saw that bluenile has one, but it seems like they put the center stone sort of "on a pedestal," elevated higher than the side stones. I''m not sure if I like this, mostly because I haven''t seen it, and at the very least, I know my girlfriend hasn''t seen it. She''s not a very material person, though, and not too picky, so it probably wouldn''t matter.

I have a very untrained eye, so I can''t really tell the difference between a G and an I, or VVS1 and VS2. They all say that these differences are generally unnoticeable to the naked eye, but I don''t want to screw this up. I also feel like if I don''t get the Tiffany''s ring, I should get it custom built as opposed to bluenile, but I wouldn''t even know where or how to begin.

I know I haven''t really given much information, but does anyone have any advice? Thanks so much!

 

[the tree sees]

John,

You''ve come to the right place. I''m sure lots of pros out there will be more than happy to help you, although posting seems to be pretty light on Sundays. I''m a recently graduated law student who just worked with Brian Gavin (link) on a ring for my girlfriend. Brian and Lesley at BGD have an impeccable reputation on this forum; their new website isn''t up yet, but I understand that they can make just about anything, so keep them in mind.

As for finances, PSers will generally tell you not to go into debt on a diamond, particularly with PS-preferred vendors, who tend to offer lifetime upgrade policies. That said, do as you want, but I suggest simply setting a budget and keeping personal finances personal.

Best of luck!

 

[the tree sees]

Sorry, wrong link...

Brian the Cutter

 

[acezarra]

What a beautiful ring! I definitely think that you can get more bang for your buck if you go outside the Tiffany's name. The experts on this site can certainly help you find a stone that wows. I can't tell the difference between VVS and VS either. I know there are a lot of jewelers on this site that do amazing custom work and can create a setting like that for you. I am partial to Brian Gavin Diamonds as their customer service is above and beyond. You might want to shoot them an email and ask them about the possibility of obtaining pear side stones.

briangavindiamonds.com

I wish I had more information for you. Good luck!

Ana Clare

 

[Lorelei]

Hi John!

I would definitely try these vendors who can supply a beautiful diamond and also a similar setting which can be custom made if necessary, a round with pear sides is a classic style.

www.briangavindiamonds.com Contact them and speak to Lesley, she is lovely and so helpful.

www.goodoldgold.com

www.whiteflash.com

www.highperformancediamonds.com

Try these vendors to start with, see who you like and if you don't see the setting as a stock item it should still be available as a custom piece.

Cut is key for a beautiful diamond so very important to concentrate on that, the vendors above all sell beautifully cut inventory diamonds. Depending on your size requirements, if you want the most bang for the buck I would suggest I or J colour and SI1 - possibly SI2 clarity if verified eyeclean by one of the trusted vendors such as the above.

If you want a little higher ' quality' then I would look at G or H colour and SI1 to VS2 / VS1 clarity.

We could suggest some diamonds for you but it might be best to contact the vendors you like and get some quotes. They will be able to recommend suitable diamonds for you according to your budget and let you know how much the setting and side stones will cost as it might need to be custom or semi custom, without knowing the setting and side stone total it is difficult for us to suggest diamonds for you with the budget so it might be better to leave it to the experts who can price and suggest the components for the whole ring for you initially.

I would think you could get a 1.5 ct centre diamond if your budget is 15k along with the setting at a guess, maybe even a little bigger according to your colour and clarity choices, it just depends on how you want to apportion the budget.

You might like the photos in this thread, Kristy's beautiful round with pear sides created by Leon Mege. The centre diamond is 3.5cts thereabouts so it is a very big stone, but it will give you another example of this style.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/kristydarlings-3-stone-by-leon-mege.44363/

 

[the tree sees]

Ditto to Lorelei.

Also, if you want to know more about clarity & color, I recommend Good Old Gold''s tutorials: here. Jonathan at GOG ("Rhino" on this forum) also has some great videos, including two intros to color:

Part I

Part II

 

[the tree sees]

Btw, I''ll post pics of my (err... my gf''s) I-color stone when it arrives in a couple of weeks. But to get a sense of how difficult it is to detect color in a well-cut round stone, check out another PSer''s pics:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/forgive-me-i-cant-resist-posting-some-pics-usin-my-new-cam.117658/

(The blue is just a reflection of her t-shirt).

 

[johnkorean]

Thank you for the quick responses, everyone! I will definitely have to give those vendors a look.

I''m starting to get the impression that in terms of a diamond in a setting, its cut may actually be the most important factor in how beautiful it is. Is that right?

So if I go for an ideal cut (maybe H&A if I can afford it), and maybe go for an I or a J (as opposed to a G or H) and make sure it''s eye clean, in terms of expense, that''s a pretty fair trade, right?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/21/2009 4:08:07 PM
Author: johnkorean
Thank you for the quick responses, everyone! I will definitely have to give those vendors a look.

I'm starting to get the impression that in terms of a diamond in a setting, its cut may actually be the most important factor in how beautiful it is. Is that right?

So if I go for an ideal cut (maybe H&A if I can afford it), and maybe go for an I or a J (as opposed to a G or H) and make sure it's eye clean, in terms of expense, that's a pretty fair trade, right?

Yes absolutely, cut is KEY if you are going to have a beautiful diamond. You can go for a branded h&a or just a well cut stone with excellent proven proportions ( Idealscope, ASET and so on, see below). And you can do that with colour and clarity, look at I or J colour and eyeclean SI clarity ( inspected by the vendor) and that can be a good way to go if the cut is excellent.

Also this page might help, one of the main tools used when buying online is reflector technologies, ASET and Idealscope images, this link explains how they work and their use.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

Often the vendors will have AGS0 branded h&a or non h&a and GIA Excellent cut grade stones as their better cut diamonds. Also depending on overall cut precision and optical symmetry, you can find some diamonds which aren't sold as h&a can show a strong arrow pattern sometimes which can be a bonus.

 

[the tree sees]

John,

You got it!

Remember, though, "ideal" is a term that's tossed about quite a bit by vendors and AGS, hence references to "superideal" when we talk about brands like ACA (offered by Whiteflash), Infinity (offered by High Performance Diamonds), Brian Gavin Signature (offered by BGD), or H&A (offered by GOG).

Btw, these are all "hearts & arrows" diamonds, another term that's thrown around too loosely by many vendors, but taken pretty seriously on this forum and by the vendors I've listed. Should be within your price range.

ETA: Ditto to Lorelei, read up on ASET & IS, the miracle gadgets.

 

[princesss]

If that''s the style you and your GF like, check out ZoeBartlett''s ring! I believe Whiteflash made it.


here

 

[johnkorean]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I shot Brian/Lesley an email sort of asking if the ring I''m looking for is something they can do in my budget, so we''ll see what they say!

 

[the tree sees]

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/21/2009 9:16:01 PM
Author: johnkorean
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I shot Brian/Lesley an email sort of asking if the ring I''m looking for is something they can do in my budget, so we''ll see what they say!

Let us know how you get on!!

 

[johnkorean]

Well, it turns out that Brian Gavin has basically exactly what I''m looking for (specs and all) within my budget! I''m starting to get a dialogue with Lesley going, but I won''t really have any new information for a few days. Thanks everyone for steering me in the right direction! I''ll keep you posted, for those that are interested.

 

[lowphat]

Just make sure that a non-Tiffany''s ring is ok with your gf. Some girls really want the name, even if it means a smaller diamond. Also make sure she''s not against you going down too low in clarity and color. Even though most people on PS know that lower colors and eye-clean clarities are acceptable, I would have to say that a majority of the people out there right now don''t know enough and think only a D/VVS1 is acceptable. You don''t want to do all this legwork and then have her be disappointed by something.

 

[johnkorean]

Thanks lowphat, that''s great advice. I actually had a conversation with my gf last night (I should clarify that the fact that she''s getting a ring soon isn''t a surprise), and she''s definitely not married to the Tiffany''s name (in fact, she suggested that I steer away from it). And the diamond in question definitely meets her minimum specs, which ultimately is all I care about. I don''t want to jinx anything, but right now things are looking promising!

 

[starshine]

Awesome!! Please keep us posted and show us pics of the finished product!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/22/2009 9:03:59 AM
Author: johnkorean
Thanks lowphat, that''s great advice. I actually had a conversation with my gf last night (I should clarify that the fact that she''s getting a ring soon isn''t a surprise), and she''s definitely not married to the Tiffany''s name (in fact, she suggested that I steer away from it). And the diamond in question definitely meets her minimum specs, which ultimately is all I care about. I don''t want to jinx anything, but right now things are looking promising!

Sounds great John!

 

[johnkorean]

I''ve got a great back and forth going with Lesley right now, and I''m very hopeful that I can give the green light within the week. I''d give diamond details to get the pricescope stamp of approval, but I''ve heard some cautionary tales about lurkers stealing diamonds away from people who didn''t have them on hold, so I''ll wait until I have confirmation from Lesley that they can put it on hold for me.

It''s stuff like this that makes the work day go by just that much faster.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/23/2009 7:55:22 AM
Author: johnkorean
I''ve got a great back and forth going with Lesley right now, and I''m very hopeful that I can give the green light within the week. I''d give diamond details to get the pricescope stamp of approval, but I''ve heard some cautionary tales about lurkers stealing diamonds away from people who didn''t have them on hold, so I''ll wait until I have confirmation from Lesley that they can put it on hold for me.

It''s stuff like this that makes the work day go by just that much faster.

That sounds like a plan John, lurkers do poach diamonds so best to be safe.

 

[the tree sees]

Yes, I''ve seen diamonds disappear on people once or twice. Before I posted images for PS scrutiny, I told Lesley just so, if someone called her right away to reserve the stone, her suspicions would be aroused. I didn''t ask her to reserve it, but I''d imagine she''d give someone who''s seriously considering a diamond the right of first refusal...

Anyway, best of luck, John! You''re in great hands!

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

If you''re interested, here''s the link to the CAD''s and wax of my ring, a round with pears, that Brian and Lesley are currently working on:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/our-visit-to-brian-gavin-diamonds-and-my-cads.117968/

Wax is on the second page. Hope that gives you a bit of an idea of what it could look like from BGD.

 

[johnkorean]

summertime,

I think that''s the exact same CAD Lesley showed me as an example! What a beautiful ring!

 

[johnkorean]

Random question: since I plan on having the ring custom-made, should I have my girlfriend have some control over the setting so that it''s exactly what she wants, or would that just completely ruin the fun? I don''t think asking her which she''d rather do is an option, because if she doesn''t want any input, then she probably also wouldn''t want me to have spoiled the surprise that it''s going to be custom-made. Then again, I don''t know.

Why do I have the feeling that I''m going to get a lot of "You know your girlfriend better than any of us do, do what you think she''d want" answers?

 

[Gypsy]

Ask her if she wants input, or not.

She''ll tell you.

 

[johnkorean]

That''s the hard part. I know that she''ll give me SOME input, but I figure asking about details such as "How would you like the prongs?" won''t do me any good.

I think I''ve entered "overthinking" mode.

 

[johnkorean]

summertime:

I noticed in the thread you linked me to that you said the diamonds in the CAD are actually set higher than they will be in the actual ring. Is that correct?

Also, is that how the prongs will look in the finished product, or will they be shaved down to sort of "grip" the diamond? Thanks!

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Hi John.

I am very glad you asked questions, as otherwise you would've been very much misled! No, the prongs will not look like that at all in the finished design. They will not be as long and will curve and grip the diamond.

Also, CAD's are about 15% thicker and bulkier than finished products, as you can see above.

Yes, when set, the diamonds will be further down in the setting. In the CAD's, the diamonds are simply superimposed in the setting to give an idea of how it will look.

I wish I had pictures to show you of the actual ring, but I may not for a while as I have to wait for BF to propose. However, I can tell you that my experience with BGD has been absolutely spectacular, and I highly recommend Brian and Lesley's expertise. When my BF and I visited them in Houston, we got to see a few finished pieces that were really outstanding - I have never seen such exceptional craftsmanship. If you decide to go with them, you will certainly be taken care of.

As for the degree of involvement your GF will have, I think it has to be decided on a case-by-case basis. For me, I had been browsing PS for months by the time we decided to purchase, so I knew exactly what I wanted and wouldn't have been as happy with anything less. For you, if your GF would be happy with a variety of styles and wouldn't know the difference between various choices of details, then you'll probably be safe. But, I will say that I have had tons of fun being involved with the design process of my ring, and I think it has taken some of the stress off of BF because he knows I'm getting exactly what I want, and that his money is being very well spent.

 

[johnkorean]

summertime:

Thanks for the response! I hope you don''t mind, but I''m pretty sure that we''ve been using your ring as a model of what I want mine to look like (I assume that no one would ever be upset that their ring was being used as a model of what rings should look like, but you never know). First thing I thought was "I don''t want those prongs," so I''m glad that''s cleared up!

I will be very interested to see what the finished product looks like, as I have a suspicion that I''m going to want something 99% similar. I talked with my GF and although she understands that I don''t want to screw up the details, she''s taking the position that she likes such a wide range of styles that she doesn''t have "a" perfect ring: what makes it perfect is that it''s coming from me, etc. Of course, what I do know is that she thought the round with pear sides at Tiffany''s was breathtaking. Even though it would be nice to be completely absolved of responsibility, like your BF, I just don''t think I can possibly go wrong with a ring like this.

And in case anyone is interested, I''m putting the diamond on hold. Since it''s new inventory, they don''t have the AGS/ASET reports, but when I get the numbers I''ll be sure to post them. I''d really appreciate thoughts.

Also, I''m debating whether or not it''s economically feasible for me to fly out to Houston from DC to meet with Brian and Lesley. Based on reputation alone, it sounds like I can completely put my trust in them (especially since I don''t know half as much as they do, so I don''t know what I could possibly hope to accomplish), which would be good because I want to keep all of my expenses to a minimum for the time being. Can anyone back me up on the idea that flying to Houston and back would be redundant and unnecessary if all I''d really be looking for is peace of mind?

Thanks everyone!