Need diamond advice!

[NewNewbie]

Pretty generic thread name in a forum like this I know!

Here''s my situation... my girlfriend of 5 years has never been one of small jewelry. With grandparents from the Middle East, she has been blessed with numerous exquisite rings and other pieces brought over from those areas. Currently she wears a 3.5ct peridot ring on one hand and a 2ct amythest on the other. I wouldn''t say either were necessarily her choice, but she loves them to death as gifts and needless to say they''ve inflated her expectations of jewel sizes. They also tend to look great on her hand as she has larger fingers, just over size 7.

Now that we''re beginning our wedding plans and I''m shopping for diamonds, this puts me in a bind. I know that she would love nothing more than a larger (in the context of 25 year olds!) stone to complement her other jewelry, and she''s hinted around at the 1.25 ct range. However, SHE knows that as a graduate student, my budget just isn''t that big, and she''s right! Her recent solution to this has been asking for a synthetic in that range (or bigger

with a later upgrade, but I really don''t want to settle for that because it''s clear how much she would love a real stone now.

After a lot of research in this forum and around the internet, I know I can afford just under a carat worth of BEAUTIFUL diamond with my $4000 stone budget. I know it could still be a wonderful e-ring that could even be upgraded very soon (if that whole job search thing goes well!!), but I really don''t want the e-ring to look small on her. She definitely is not superficial about the sizes in any way, but I think it''s only natural with her previous jewelry to really hope for something large among her friends.

Perhaps I''m specifically targeting women in this forum who may be able to shed their opinion. Does it sound like the best choice to still get the biggest/best I can afford now in a real diamond? Will a super-ideal cut diamond speak for itself even at 0.9ct, like I hope it will?

Thanks!!!

 

[bling]

Hi there!
in my humble opinion, i think the real deal would be well worth it. a .9 range is not small by any means and think she would be thrilled with it. as you probably already know, the cut makes a world of difference too, so its good that you are concentrating on that. im sure she will love whatever you pick out for her and understands your situation right now. and like you said, should the job hunting go well, an upgrade may come shortly...there are many sites that offer a lifetime upgrade policy on any diamond they sell you...cant go wrong with that!
good luck!

 

[derekinla]

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On 9/9/2003 11:11:30 AM NewNewbie wrote:

Pretty generic thread name in a forum like this I know!

Here's my situation... my girlfriend of 5 years has never been one of small jewelry. With grandparents from the Middle East, she has been blessed with numerous exquisite rings and other pieces brought over from those areas. Currently she wears a 3.5ct peridot ring on one hand and a 2ct amythest on the other. I wouldn't say either were necessarily her choice, but she loves them to death as gifts and needless to say they've inflated her expectations of jewel sizes. They also tend to look great on her hand as she has larger fingers, just over size 7.

Now that we're beginning our wedding plans and I'm shopping for diamonds, this puts me in a bind. I know that she would love nothing more than a larger (in the context of 25 year olds!) stone to complement her other jewelry, and she's hinted around at the 1.25 ct range. However, SHE knows that as a graduate student, my budget just isn't that big, and she's right! Her recent solution to this has been asking for a synthetic in that range (or bigger

with a later upgrade, but I really don't want to settle for that because it's clear how much she would love a real stone now.

After a lot of research in this forum and around the internet, I know I can afford just under a carat worth of BEAUTIFUL diamond with my $4000 stone budget. I know it could still be a wonderful e-ring that could even be upgraded very soon (if that whole job search thing goes well!!), but I really don't want the e-ring to look small on her. She definitely is not superficial about the sizes in any way, but I think it's only natural with her previous jewelry to really hope for something large among her friends.

Perhaps I'm specifically targeting women in this forum who may be able to shed their opinion. Does it sound like the best choice to still get the biggest/best I can afford now in a real diamond? Will a super-ideal cut diamond speak for itself even at 0.9ct, like I hope it will?

Thanks!!!
----------------

The simulant route may not be such a bad idea. Simulants have come a long way and although I don't own one, I would seriously consider them if my financial situation were different as a bridge to an eventual upgrade. If you know for sure that you're going to upgrade at some point anyway, why not save your resources and get the real 1.25 later. 4000 dollars as a grad student might come in handy down the road (i.e. wedding costs, honeymoon, moving costs, emergency fund etc.......) Just a thought.

 

[Hest88]

I'm torn. Personally I'd want the real deal, but if she really doesn't care and you really think you'll be able to afford the larger stone in a few years, you might as well go for that. Just make sure that you get a simulant that's not so large that when you swap it out her friends notice. Considering the rest of her jewelry, I'd think *at least* a 1.5 carat would be nice.

 

[hoorray]

This is a tough one! At the end of the day only you can guess what would be the best in her opinion, and that's what counts!

Personally, I would not want a simulant. I'm fine wearing them for earrings and other "accessory" jewelery, but something doesn't seem right to me for an engagement/wedding ring. That said, thinking creatively might be the right option here. How about putting the money into a very cool wedding band that suits her size and personality and simply postponing the "rock" purchase until after grad school? (I got married in the 80's and LOTS of women from then only wear one ring rather than a set. They often have a non-solitare design to them with multiple smaller stones.) You could maybe get a nice wide band with pave or other small diamonds in it, and add another ring to it down the road.

Just a thought. A .8-.9 stone is a nice stone, especially if you make sure it's a good cut, and pay more attention to the dimensions than the actual c weight. If you buy from one of the several vendors who offer full value trade-ins, then you should be covered for the future. (Make sure that is one of their services, and you think they will be around in the future. Selling a stone on the open market can be tough for consumers.)

My advice, try to figure out what she would feel best about out of your choices. If she really wants a stone, maybe the slightly smaller stone is better than the simulant or no stone option. Women look and think about their e-ring all day long, and you want her to smile everytime she does!

 

[NewYorker]

Get the real one. An e-ring symbolizes your promise to her that you love her and will be with her forever - a simulant just doesn't say that. I think .9 is a wonderful size and you can't compare diamonds to peridots and any other gem for that matter. Size is not the most important thing here.
If she even has the nerve to complain even a little that she got a .9 carat genuine diamond from the love of her life I would seriously think she doesn't have her head on straight.

 

[mike04456]

Well, let's be clear here--he said "synthetic," which is not the same as a simulant (cz or moissanite). A true synthetic diamond might be worth looking into, but they are not really that much cheaper than natural ones. $4000 might get you a 1 ct Gemesis yellow synthetic diamond, which might satisfy her taste for something unusual. Gemesis does not currently produce colorless synthetics. I don't know what the Apollo synthetics are going to go for, but they aren't on the market yet.

I agree with the others about not getting a cz. They are just not appropriate for e-rings IMO, even the so-called premium cz's (which are basically just regular cz's with a huge mark-up), because of durability issues.

 

[NewNewbie]

It seems that the forum is developing the same way my thought process has been going...

I too do not believe in a CZ for an engagement ring. I would think nothing lower of anyone who followed that path for a later upgrade, but it just isn't my taste. BTW, I was mistaken in saying "synthetic" when I really meant to imply a CZ. Thanks for getting me on the right track LawGem!

Thanks to all for your opinions thus far. Although a grad student right now, I did work for about 1.5 years and developed the savings for this ring a while back. It's just still hard right now to go over $5000 for the complete package when there are SOOO many unknowns in the next year of my (our) life and I still need to find a unique band to match her tastes! I have been so tempted to throw an extra $1000 down to move nicely over the 1ct mark, but just feel uncomfortable that she would be mad when we're looking for extra honeymoon money, wedding money, etc, as many of you have pointed out. I really think (okay, hope) that with an upgrade very seriously planned ASAP, going with the smaller, yet still beautiful real stone is going to be the best.

One more question that no one jumped on yet... as "not small" as a 0.85-0.90ct rock is at this time of our lives, is this going to look small on a size 7 finger? I've seen a lot of posts regarding the opposite (looking big on a small finger).

Thanks everyone!

 

[elmo]

Something else to consider since this doesn't appear to be a complete surprise - set your budget, discuss with your fiancee, and if an upgrade later doesn't suit her and she's working not a student like you, maybe she'd be willing to help with the difference. Some women would be offended, others would enjoy the opportunity to get what they want. Not sure what your situation is, but it's another possibility.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 9/9/2003 3:49:59 PM NewNewbie wrote:
Thanks to all for your opinions thus far. Although a grad student right now, I did work for about 1.5 years and developed the savings for this ring a while back. It's just still hard right now to go over $5000 for the complete package when there are SOOO many unknowns in the next year of my (our) life and I still need to find a unique band to match her tastes! I have been so tempted to throw an extra $1000 down to move nicely over the 1ct mark, but just feel uncomfortable that she would be mad when we're looking for extra honeymoon money, wedding money, etc, as many of you have pointed out. I really think (okay, hope) that with an upgrade very seriously planned ASAP, going with the smaller, yet still beautiful real stone is going to be the best.

One more question that no one jumped on yet... as "not small" as a 0.85-0.90ct rock is at this time of our lives, is this going to look small on a size 7 finger? I've seen a lot of posts regarding the opposite (looking big on a small finger).

Thanks everyone!----------------
A few thoughts on this for you: I don't prefer the CZ route myself either, but for additional reasons to the sentimental ones given previously.

If you get a CZ, that's money lost. You typically cannot use it (to my knowledge) for upgrade purposes. If you get a real stone within your budget now, you have more options. You can either use it toward trade-in value, or you can simply have it set as a pendant when you have the funds to get the diamond of her/your dreams in a few years (which would be my choice....to keep the diamond I was proposed to with).

She does understand your budget, which is really nice, and it seems as though she's sensitive to your feelings in suggesting a simulant. A .85-.90 stone would be more than fine on a size 7 finger. As someone else suggested, tell the vendors you work with that you'd like to get the most "spread" or diameter that you can without a major sacrifice in cut.

A .85-.90 diamond that is exceptionally cut will rival the appearance of any 1 ct mall stone out there....hands down.

A last thought: If you choose a simple gold/platinum solitaire setting for the time being, one that runs about $500 or so, you can increase your stone budget to $4500. A setting with a fairly thin band will also help the diamond to look larger.

Good luck, whatever you decide. Personally, I agree that you're on the right track in leaning toward the real stone option.

 

[derekinla]

Getting help (temporary lone) from parents might also be another option to supplment your funds and improve your buying power. I STILL say a simulant is an acceptable route IF both parties are in agreement. I would agree that an e ring is a highly individualized purchase, but to simply dismiss a simulant as unacceptable option might be a bit constricted. I would even argue that a sim might even be a fiscally responsible purchase. I'm guessing the average grad student probably makes like $25,000 gross a year ($16,000 net) so $4000 is really SIGNIFICANT PURCHASE. If you're gonna upgrade down the road anyway, I think a good sim may be hard to pass up. Put it this way, If I MADE 16,000 net a year with little in the bank, I would probably go with a sim (temporarily), and put part of the $4000 in a Roth IRA. After saving up enough $$$, I would dump the sim and get the real deal. 20 years from now, who's going to care that she had a sim for the first few years of marriage. At your 50th anniversy, who's going to even remember.... except that your Roth IRA is now worth a cool million

Finally, since she's going to be the one to wear the ring and have to enjoy the ring, I think discussing the various options with her is crucial. Doing what's best for her, what's best for you, and what's best for your future together should all be considerations. Remember, in a marriage, you can't buy happiness......even with real diamonds (Look at Kobe Bryant, you think a purple diamond the size of a walnut is going to make that marriage last?). My main take home point is don't forget your finances. Overextending yourself now could pave the way for difficulties down the road and you don't want to only have a diamond to show for it.

 

[aljdewey]

Oh, and another thing: Several of these vendors carry "non-branded" H&As. The stone doesn't have to be a super-duper-louper, as F&I puts it, to be a well-cut sparkly diamond. Branded diamonds come at a premium, just like Ralph Lauren shirts or any other "brand". Pursue the non-branded diamonds; you'll be able to get more size for the money.

Lastly, I said this recently in another thread, but it bears repeating for your situation: You'd be surprised at how easy it is for a man to impress a woman who loves him. Seeing that she knows your budget, I'm sure she'd be impressed with a beautiful .8x or .9 stone that she knew you'd saved diligently for......and I'm fairly sure that would mean a great deal.

P.S. While a loan from a relative is certainly an option, I'd be disinclined to recommend this one. Couples really get into trouble when they start by getting in over their heads, and a loan will further restrict your budget options in the wedding planning, etc as you've pointed out.

 

[ringbling17]

HI,
Like Hess88, I am also torn on whether you should get the synthetic or the real deal.
Why not let her decide? Ask her what would she prefer, a .90 carat real diamond or a 1.5 carat synthetic?
Also, the idea about having her pay for part of it seems like a great idea.
I do understand about the whole size thing. I was always happy with my .70+ diamond ring, but when it came time for my 10 year anniversary, I knew I wanted something larger. I thought I would be happy with a 1.51, but when I got it, I knew it was still a little too small.
Here are some things to keep in mind.
If you set the diamond higher, it will appear bigger. Likewise if you have it bezel set. Also, if you get a really thin band, like 2 mm, the diamond will look larger.
I hope this helped.

 

[ringbling17]

Here is an example. This is a ring I wore as an engagement set( but really wasn't). The diamond is .72 or .75 points and I think there are about one carat of diamonds in each ring.
The diamond is set high, higher than the new one I have.
I really think it makes the diamond look much bigger.

 

[NewYorker]

My friend has a size 7 finger and she loves smaller size gems. I think it all depends on the setting you get. If you get a wider ring setting it'll look bad, if you get a solitaire it may look not as nice too (but I've never been a fan of solitaires). I think if you get a setting that has side diamonds that taper down the sides (hard to explain) would really emphasize the center diamond and would look really good on her size finger.

Oh, I also kind of disagree in upgrading in the future - there's really only one e-ring. Mine is only .69 carats and my husband and I agree that at the time it was the best he could do and it represents that time in our lives.

For my 10th or 15th wedding anniversary I'll want an anniversary ring with 3 diamonds of .50+ each. Oops, got off the topic there.....

 

[Mikesgirl]

Hi, Newnewbie. Like you need another opinion, but here's mine -
I know that when it is a cultural thing, and family holds alot of importance opinion-wise, that the size can be a big deal. If she's willing to go for a CZ, I think that's her way of saying size does matter to her. I would go one of two ways:

1. Find the dream setting, I mean the most amazing, which can cost you a couple of thousand by itself, and put a CZ in it, with the intention of a future real thing in the same setting.

2. Go to someone like dirtcheapdiamonds.com, pick a 1.5 carat stone with a good (not great, not H&A, not knock your socks off)look, and let them do an upgrade for you in 10 years (I noticed they had a 1.4 for about 3300 - didn't check the stats, but something like that might do).

I'm guessing, based on the familiarity I have with middle eastern/eastern families and because you said she wears large stones, that she feels she needs a large stone for everyone to be happy for and with her, even though she alone might well be happy with the .9. I don't think she would have suggested CZ if .9 were going to do. She wants her family to be impressed with the ring. If it were me, I'd want you to go with whichever of the above two choices would look flashier, and that would probably be the CZ. Good luck, and remember, soon YOU will be her family, and there will be less and less influence her family has, but part of the package is the family and their approval.

PS. GO TO http://www.goodoldgold.com/round_1_48ct_m_si3.htm - This is a 1.48 carat for 3,700 wire cash at good old gold. It's a 3.3 on the HCA, "very good - worth it for the right price". This one might even be good for a long time. It's in their clearance section - check it out! It has Sarin, etc, as you'd expect from GOG. Let us know what happens!

 

[fire&ice]

Glad you are coming around to a "real" diamond. There is something disingenuos (sp?) w/ proposing w/ a "fake" stone.

That said, you can have your cake & eat it to. Go w/ a J/SI1-SI2 stone. Try to get one that is a good make, but not "branded". Try to look for a "spreadier" stone. Also, if possible, look for a stone w/ med/strong blue fluor. You will be able to afford around 1.18 +/- size. A stone this size has every opportunity to be eye clean & white looking once set.

Don't go crazy on a setting. *That* is something you *can* easily upgrade later. A simple high set 4 prong tiffany setting in gold w/ platinum head may be your best bet. She will have that "pop" effect.

Good luck.

 

[fire&ice]

Whoops - duplicate post.

 

[Hest88]

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There is something disingenuos (sp?) w/ proposing w/ a "fake" stone.
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I dunno, I don't think it's disingenuous when she not only knows about it, but suggested it. I think the key here, as it is with all e-rings, is to get what you know *she* wants. If she's already talked about it with you, then there's no taboo in clarifying, as Kayla said, whether she'd want a .9 real or a much larger CZ to start with.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 9/10/2003 10

9:19 AM Hest88 wrote:

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There is something disingenuos (sp?) w/ proposing w/ a "fake" stone.
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I dunno, I don't think it's disingenuous when she not only knows about it, but suggested it. I think the key here, as it is with all e-rings, is to get what you know *she* wants. If she's already talked about it with you, then there's no taboo in clarifying, as Kayla said, whether she'd want a .9 real or a much larger CZ to start with.

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While I understand your point, I would rather see no ring. It's fake - not real. But then, perhaps I take it too literal to transcend into "relationship". Plus, talk about giving food for fodder w/ jealous friends. Face it, the always a bridesmaid never a bride can be brutal to the "bride".

That said, he can get a stone in the 1.20 range. Given that it is well cut & graded correctly, I have seen many o' J's that face up beautifully in platinum.