Need advice please! 3 options for engagement stone, buying soon...

[quietforce]

Hello,

I''m about to purchase a stone for an engagement ring. I''ve narrowed the search down to three stones, and I don''t know which one to pick. They are all beautiful to my eye (I am going through a dealer in NYC''s diamond district, so I have seen all three). This site has been incredibly helpful to me as I''ve educated myself about this purchase. In fact, I don''t know what I would have done without it, so I thought I''d see if you wanted to chime in on the final decision

I need to decide by Thursday in order to get the ring made in time so any advice you have in the next day or two would be very much appreciated!

All are round brilliant with GIA certs, no culet, no fluorescence.

Stone 1
$7400
1.05, G, VS1
Cut Exc
Polish VG
Symmetry VG
HCA Score .9
Depth 60.4
Table 58
Crown angle 32.5
Pavilion angle 41.0
Measurements 6.57 x 6.62 x 3.98

Stone 2
$7200
1.03, G, VS1
Cut Exc
Polish VG
Symmetry Exc
HCA Score 1.5
Depth 62.9
Table 54
Crown angle 34.5
Pavilion angle 40.6
Measurements 6.40 x 6.45 x 4.04

Stone 3
$7000
1.0, G, VS1
Cut VG
Polish Exc
Symmetry Exc
HCA Score 1.0
Depth 61.9
Table 55
Crown angle 34.0
Pavilion angle 40.8
Measurements 6.39 x 6.43 x 3.97

I think I am leaning toward Stone 1 because it does look noticeably bigger to the naked eye, due to the relatively flat angles. And it scores very well on HCA! But should I be worried about it being that flat? Is the 32.5 crown angle going to have an impact I am not aware of? There is something attractive about getting a perfect carat and saving $400 (stone 3), but the GIA cut grade is not as high...

Please help? Thank you!

 

[stone-cold11]

Weird. Can you list the GIA report number for #3?

 

[quietforce]

Sure - what''s "weird"? That''s a scary word to hear when you''re about to drop $7k!!

GIA cert number for Stone 3 is 5106196611

 

[stone-cold11]

Weird in that those numbers should get a GIA Ex in cut grade.

Tried to pull up the report check but failed. Can you do it?

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm

 

[quietforce]

Oops - sorry! I put in the report number for Stone 2.

The report number for Stone 3 is 17263256.

 

[FB.]

Date: 12/1/2009 10:45:17 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Weird. Can you list the GIA report number for #3?

Probably light to moderate painting or digging. My 35.5/41.2/56/62.8 easily qualifies for GIA Ex but wasn't graded as such (it would have been GIA-triple-EX / steep/deep but performs almost as well as a TIC as a result of the cutters tricks).
It has thickening of the girdle that is moderate on the crown at every upper half/girdle junction (as compared to bezel/girdle junction) and minor on the pavilion at every lower half/girdle junction (as compared to pavilion main/girdle junction).
No mention is printed on the certificate, though.

 

[quietforce]

I was able to pull it up and it comes up as VG cut...

Should this be a concern?

 

[stone-cold11]

#1 is cut more for brilliance and spread, but sacrifice fire for it. #3 is more balance cut between fire and brilliance, #2 might have obstruction issue or might not, so check it out next time you go look at it.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ok, really weird on that cut grading, even facetware states it should get a Ex cut and there is no comment on reduction of cut grade due to brillianteering.

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=17263256&weight=1.00

I am going for #3 from the numbers.

Facetware if you want to play with it.
http://www2.gia.edu/facetware/

 

[FB.]

Date: 12/1/2009 10:58:46 AM
Author: quietforce
I was able to pull it up and it comes up as VG cut...

Should this be a concern?

Yes. A cutter may have used brillianteering that is frowned upon by GIA. Basically, the crown and/or pavilion facets may not be aligned properly.
Such methods can be used to retain weight for stones that sit on a carat boundary. They can spoil the look of some stones, but can also be used to improve the look of some stones. See my post above.

 

[quietforce]

Just to eliminate any confusion, here are the three GIA Report numbers.

All check out as advertised.

Stone 1
1106181467

Stone 2
5106196611

Stone 3
17263256

So.... any advice?

 

[FB.]

If images available, number 3 would be interesting to see, but it could either be a very good stone, or a very bad one. 50/50. Do you feel lucky?
Number 3 is smaller in every dimension than the other stones. When coupled with only just managing 1ct and being awarded a lower-than-expected cut grade, it could suggest something sinister that is adding weight around the girdle.


I'd probably choose number 2 if buying blind. Yes, it's is a little deep and smaller, but it has a more balanced and safe set of proportions. Might be slight darker in the middle of the stone with such a small table and the short-ish lower halves, but should have lots of fire. Has the benefit of slightly higher finish grade (polish/symmetry).


Number 1 looks promising too, but is more for those who know that they want a bright, spready but possibly slightly less lively stone. It will look slightly larger and maybe slightly brighter, but will have less fire. Once you're below 2, a lower HCA score does not mean better.

 

[Lorelei]

Do you have a copy of the actual report for the third diamond please that you could post here? I would be interested to see it.

 

[quietforce]

Date: 12/1/2009 11:28:14 AM
Author: FB.
If images available, number 3 would be interesting to see, but it could either be a very good stone, or a very bad one. 50/50. Do you feel lucky?

Number 3 is smaller in every dimension than the other stones. When coupled with only just managing 1ct and being awarded a lower-than-expected cut grade, it could suggest something sinister that is adding weight around the girdle.

I'd probably choose number 2 if buying blind. Yes, it's is a little deep and smaller, but it has a more balanced and safe set of proportions. Might be slight darker in the middle of the stone with such a small table and the short-ish lower halves, but should have lots of fire. Has the benefit of slightly higher finish grade (polish/symmetry).

Number 1 looks promising too, but is more for those who know that they want a bright, spready but possibly slightly less lively stone. It will look slightly larger and maybe slightly brighter, but will have less fire. Once you're below 2, a lower HCA score does not mean better.

This is very helpful, thank you. I don't know how I can get images - I am out of town up until I need to make my decision. But I can look at all three again when I go in to purchase, is there anything I should be looking for to see if Stone 3 is a great deal or a disaster? I would hope I would be able to see a real disaster even just under a loupe, right? I am no expert, but looking at all of these they do look very nice in person!

I have to admit I am still somewhat tempted by Stone 1... it looks so big and nice! Is there a good way for me to compare it to the others specifically for "fire" when I see it again?

I will see if there is a good thread to read on fire and brilliance... is it generally accepted that unless you have very specific wants you should get one that balances them?

Also, I didn't realize that a lower HCA grade wasnt always better - thanks for straightening
me out

 

[quietforce]

Date: 12/1/2009 11:55:21 AM
Author: Lorelei
Do you have a copy of the actual report for the third diamond please that you could post here? I would be interested to see it.

I only have hard copy and am not in a place where I can scan it. Is there specific info I can transcribe from the cert that would be helpful?

 

[FB.]

Number 1 isn''t a bad stone. If you like it, buy it. It certainly has a good spread, relative to the others.

Any problems with number 3 may only become apparent when it''s mounted and/or you''ve seen it in a variety of real-world lighting conditions (not a jewellery shop), or when compared with stones of better cut quality. But number 3 could turn out to be a good stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/1/2009 11:57:41 AM
Author: quietforce

Date: 12/1/2009 11:55:21 AM
Author: Lorelei
Do you have a copy of the actual report for the third diamond please that you could post here? I would be interested to see it.

I only have hard copy and am not in a place where I can scan it. Is there specific info I can transcribe from the cert that would be helpful?

If you could look on the report and see if it mentions anything like " cut grade is affected by brillianteering" that would be useful to know. Doesn''t necessarily mean even if it mentions it that it is a bad diamond, just would be interested to know why this diamond got a VG cut grade instead of Excellent.

 

[quietforce]

Date: 12/1/2009 12:16:04 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 12/1/2009 11:57:41 AM

Author: quietforce

Date: 12/1/2009 11:55:21 AM

Author: Lorelei

Do you have a copy of the actual report for the third diamond please that you could post here? I would be interested to see it.

I only have hard copy and am not in a place where I can scan it. Is there specific info I can transcribe from the cert that would be helpful?

If you could look on the report and see if it mentions anything like '' cut grade is affected by brillianteering'' that would be useful to know. Doesn''t necessarily mean even if it mentions it that it is a bad diamond, just would be interested to know why this diamond got a VG cut grade instead of Excellent.

The only comments on the cert are as follows:
Additional clouds are not shown.
Surface graining is not shown.

Does that help?

Also, I guess my one other question would be do these prices seem appropriate?

 

[quietforce]

Date: 12/1/2009 12:06:49 PM
Author: FB.
Number 1 isn''t a bad stone. If you like it, buy it. It certainly has a good spread, relative to the others.

Any problems with number 3 may only become apparent when it''s mounted and/or you''ve seen it in a variety of real-world lighting conditions (not a jewellery shop), or when compared with stones of better cut quality. But number 3 could turn out to be a good stone.

I guess now I''m starting to think that the exact 1.00 carat weight combined with the VG cut grade on what should be an EXC stone is potentially concerning, as I am not expert enough to evaluate it myself. $200 - $400 is not going to make a big difference here, I''ll be poor after this no matter how you cut it So I think I''m leaning toward 1 or 2,.

My concerns on 2 are the mention of potential issues with obstruction or being slightly darker in the middle.

My concerns for 1 are that it seems a somewhat unconventional cut - bigger table and shallower crown angles than most people call ideal.

Man. I don''t know. No one said this was easy!

 

[quietforce]

Just bumping this up to gather more opinions...

Thanks everyone who''s answered so far - this is really helpful!