Need advice on sleep training an infant please

[Kay]

I really need some advice on how to sleep train my DD. She is just turning eight months old, and she does not come close to sleeping through the night when she sleeps alone. I’ve probably spoiled her, and I’m not sure what to do at this point. DH and I both work, and we have been sick repeatedly over the past 5 months because she brings bugs home from daycare and our immune systems are shot from lack of sleep.

The first 2 months of her life, DD wanted to be held all the time. She would cry when she was put down, but would sleep peacefully in our arms, so DH and I took turns sitting up with her at night. At Christmastime, my in-laws visited and were helping us with the night shifts. MIL thought we were crazy and just put DD in her crib at night. From that point on until about a month ago, DD would be put in her crib at night once she was asleep. Sometimes she is sound asleep in our arms but wakes up screaming as soon as her butt hits the crib mattress. Once she was down, she would wake us a few times a night. Sometimes when she cried out she was not fully awake yet, so we could just pop the pacifier back in her mouth and she would sleep a while longer. At least once a night, she would fully wake and it would take between 30 minutes and 2.5 hours to change her, feed her and get her back to sleep. It is especially bad each time a new tooth is coming in. The funny thing is, in early January, she started sleeping through the night at 2.5 months old. It lasted about 10 days, but then she regressed when she started day care.

I sleep poorly, and have a very difficult time falling back asleep after I get up with DD, even if it is just for a few minutes. A few weeks ago, I decided to try sleeping with DD so I would not have to get out of bed every time she needs to be comforted. DH and I now take turns sleeping with her in the guest room so one of us can sleep. (Unlike in our room, one side of the guest bed is against the wall, so DD is between a parent and the wall and cannot roll off.) Most nights it works very well. DD likes to snuggle. When I sleep with her, she will cry or whimper several times during the night, and I can usually just rub her back or tummy and pop the pacifier in and she will go back to sleep and so do I. Some nights, she will still have one long, cranky awake period in the middle of the night. Some nights, either at bed time or when she wakes in the middle of the night, she will cry uncontrollably even if held/rocked/walked. When DH has her, his rule is if she is going to cry anyway she can cry alone in her room with the door shut. He will let her stay alone for 15-30 minutes. It just breaks my heart to listen to her cry. A few nights we have tried the CIO method of leaving her alone for 5 minutes, then trying to comfort her without picking her up, then waiting 10 minutes, then 15, then 20, etc., but she just keeps crying and there is no comforting her just by touching her or talking to her if we do not pick her up. Obviously, we have not been consistent with this method.

We are at the ends of our ropes and I just don’t know what to do at this point. She is such a sweet, happy kid during the day, but she can be a terror at night.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Wow Kay I am so sorry! I totally recommend picking up The Baby Whisperer book. I have been using its methods with our 4 month old son since he was 4 weeks and they really do work if you are *consistent* and very very patient. Hunter also regresses -- like the last couple nights he was up 3 times and today cried like a maniac for naps -- but we just take a step back and use the same methods and with time and patience it always works. Jas12 also used it with Co when he was about your DD''s age I think. She mentioned that it took a good 2 weeks of hard work to get him turned around and then it was wonderful!

As a small note, which you can take or leave as you wish, I don''t agree with your DH that crying alone in her bed with the door shut is the same thing as crying in her parent''s arms. When you are really really sad about something, it definitely helps to be held, even if you continue crying, versus being alone. I''m sure sometimes you need a break from her, but I''m not sure leaving her crying in her room for extended periods is the best solution.

 

[packrat]

I kept teething tablets and tummy gas drops in the nursery and used those often. Swaddling didn''t work for London, but Trapper liked it a lot. But, she put herself on a schedule at 8 weeks, while Trapper took a year before we figured out his schedule. What is her feeding schedule like? As hard as it was to get up in the middle of the night and lose sleep, I did enjoy snuggling and rocking him, but after a while it got to the point that he just needed to learn to soothe himself back to sleep instead of me getting up to rock him 3 times a night. It sucked, but he won''t remember it, and he wasn''t traumatized or anything. It''s good for them to learn to self soothe. How many naps does she take, and for how long each time? Does she have a special baby or blanket she likes? You could try snuggling that with her while you rock her, so she associates it w/you at night when it''s in her crib w/her. It''s hard to learn the different sounds of your baby''s cries..but they do cry for most things, since they can''t verbalize. Hungry, sad, scared, bored, overstimulated, hurt, tired etc.

 

[Burk]

Oh Kay, I'm so sorry! I don't have a lot of advice but I know quite a few mommies liked the book DD mentioned so I'd def. give that a try.

My 2 cents: I think that if you don't want to co-sleep with her forever I'd probably stop that soon. Have you tried putting a few pacifiers in her crib? We had 3 or more in T's crib by that age so that when she woke she could just find a paci quickly and put it back in her own mouth to go back to sleep. I do think that babies need to be able to self soothe and it's perfectly normal to wake and cry in the middle of the night here and there. T still does at 17 months. But, we don't go to her (unless it's her panicky, need something cry) and just let her soothe herself back to sleep. Tacori introduced me to the 20 minute rule which was a great rule of thumb: basically if baby wakes in the middle of the night you give them 20 minutes before you go to them. I also agree with DD that consistency is key and it will probably take a couple weeks of dedication to make new habits. Good luck and keep us posted!!

 

[neatfreak]

I'm sorry you are having trouble Kay! You say you haven't been consistent-well consistency is key with anything sleep training related. Nothing is going to work overnight and unfortunately you'll have a few rough weeks but you'll eventually get into a routine. In my limited experience so far routines are the way to go.

I also second stopping the cosleeping if it isn't something you want to do forever. You've got to break her of the habit now.

 

[janinegirly]

Kay, I just want to offer some support, because my little one is also not able to sleep on her own (due to my own fault really) and is almost 9 mo's. But in my case I'm lucky that she is a good sleeper and if put down asleep or groggy will stay put. When she wakes up, it's usually for a bottle and then nods off before it's done. I am quite nocturnal so manage with no sleep (and I also work full time)..so I guess I'm "lucky" in that sense. At least your DH shares the burden, mine just sleeps and doesn't understand that I might be shortempered some days (uhh work, commute, sleep, baby and no time for showers does not equal bright and perky!).

I'll try to throw in some tips...I know others will have better rigorous sleep techniques and books (def not my area of expertise), but I'll still try. It's true that consistency is key. Is your LO getting some good naps during the day? If she's at daycare, is she just being put down awake there? I notice disruption in naps can disrupt night time as well. Does she go to bed with a full belly? That helps keep them asleep. Is the room dark and quiet at all times--sounds like such an obvious question, I'm just trying to figure out why she wakes up so alert! What time is she going to bed on average? Co sleeping should be for emergency sleep only--she will get very attached to it.

Hugs Kay..you'll get through it, and I look forward to hearing other ladies' advice as well..

 

[TravelingGal]

Whatever you decide to do, be consistent and do it now. Because an 8 month old is a world away from a 1 year old. And so on. Most of the time, sleep training only gets more difficult as time goes on.

What is her sleep schedule like now? As Janine mentioned, what is her nap schedule and what has it been like since she''s been in daycare? What time does she go to bed and what time does she wake up?

I''m with Tacori and Burk on the 20 minute rule. Yes, it is hard, but it will not kill any child nor scar them for life to let them cry for 20 minutes. It might scar you for a week though.

If you keep going in there, trust me on this one, it will only teach her how long she needs to cry to outlast you and make you come back. The more you are inconsistent, the longer they will learn to cry (and the angrier they get).

However, I wouldn''t say just dump her in there to cry without knowing more about what is going on with her sleeping day. I will say one thing, not only is consistency the key to sleep training, it is also the key to KEEPING things going well. If her bedtime is all over the place due to parental activities, it is unreasonable to expect that a child will sleep well.

Co-sleeping - it works for some, not for others. Sounds like you are not a good candidate for co-sleeping since you sleep poorly anyway. Definitely try to nip this in the bud now. It is VERY difficult to get out of when children get older. Parenting magazine just ran an article about this a month or two ago. Parenting mag isn''t known for being a hard line magazine, but the advice on this article pretty much said, sorry, but it''s going to suck and they are going to throw a tantrum during this process and you will have to stick it out and deal with their crying. My friend has a 3 year old she can''t get out of her bed yet. My other friend never learned and although the two older girls (5 and 9) finally do sleep in their own beds, they insist on crawling into bed with mommy and daddy in the early hours of the morning. Add in their 16 month old and there are FIVE people in this bed and a very tired mother.

The hardest part about sleep training is that it means 2 or 5 or 15 nights of misery for everyone involved. Sometimes it just is so much easier to go status quo and I do understand that (ask me why I still pop a paci in Amelia''s mouth now and then!) But the anxiety and exhaustion which lures you to just do what works for now will make it worse later - I can almost guarantee it. Choose something (Baby Whisperer, Happiest Baby on the Block, No Cry Sleep Solution, whatever) and STICK WITH IT.

Your baby hasn''t been taught to sleep and self soothe on her own. IMHO, co-sleeping isn''t really helpful with that. If you look at most of the PS moms, you''ll find that the women who at some point put their babies in their crib early have less issues with sleep. There aren''t very many parents who co-sleep successfully, so you may want to keep that in mind.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you Kay...sleep is so important for sanity!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/19/2009 5:28:55 PM
Author:Kay

I really need some advice on how to sleep train my DD. She is just turning eight months old, and she does not come close to sleeping through the night when she sleeps alone. I’ve probably spoiled her, and I’m not sure what to do at this point. DH and I both work, and we have been sick repeatedly over the past 5 months because she brings bugs home from daycare and our immune systems are shot from lack of sleep.

The first 2 months of her life, DD wanted to be held all the time. She would cry when she was put down, but would sleep peacefully in our arms, so DH and I took turns sitting up with her at night. At Christmastime, my in-laws visited and were helping us with the night shifts. MIL thought we were crazy and just put DD in her crib at night. From that point on until about a month ago, DD would be put in her crib at night once she was asleep. Sometimes she is sound asleep in our arms but wakes up screaming as soon as her butt hits the crib mattress. Once she was down, she would wake us a few times a night. Sometimes when she cried out she was not fully awake yet, so we could just pop the pacifier back in her mouth and she would sleep a while longer. At least once a night, she would fully wake and it would take between 30 minutes and 2.5 hours to change her, feed her and get her back to sleep. It is especially bad each time a new tooth is coming in. The funny thing is, in early January, she started sleeping through the night at 2.5 months old. It lasted about 10 days, but then she regressed when she started day care.

I sleep poorly, and have a very difficult time falling back asleep after I get up with DD, even if it is just for a few minutes. A few weeks ago, I decided to try sleeping with DD so I would not have to get out of bed every time she needs to be comforted. DH and I now take turns sleeping with her in the guest room so one of us can sleep. (Unlike in our room, one side of the guest bed is against the wall, so DD is between a parent and the wall and cannot roll off.) Most nights it works very well. DD likes to snuggle. When I sleep with her, she will cry or whimper several times during the night, and I can usually just rub her back or tummy and pop the pacifier in and she will go back to sleep and so do I. Some nights, she will still have one long, cranky awake period in the middle of the night. Some nights, either at bed time or when she wakes in the middle of the night, she will cry uncontrollably even if held/rocked/walked. When DH has her, his rule is if she is going to cry anyway she can cry alone in her room with the door shut. He will let her stay alone for 15-30 minutes. It just breaks my heart to listen to her cry. A few nights we have tried the CIO method of leaving her alone for 5 minutes, then trying to comfort her without picking her up, then waiting 10 minutes, then 15, then 20, etc., but she just keeps crying and there is no comforting her just by touching her or talking to her if we do not pick her up. Obviously, we have not been consistent with this method.

We are at the ends of our ropes and I just don’t know what to do at this point. She is such a sweet, happy kid during the day, but she can be a terror at night.

This method is a lot of work and takes longer. Others can chime in because they use it. Personally, I think it''s nearly as "bad" as cold hearted, CIO, possibly worse. The child clearly wants to be picked up, but is only patted (or whatever), then left alone again. Then she''s amped up and pissed off and starts crying again, only to be made to wait longer, then not picked up again. It''s like constantly getting teased.

CIO is tough too, don''t get me wrong, and it just doesn''t work for everyone because you either believe it''s harmful to the child or don''t have the constitution to bear it. The later you use this, the tougher it gets. Another one of my friends who is still cosleeping with her 2.5 year old (yes, I have a lot of exhausted co-sleeping friends) got desperate and tried to use CIO when her son was much older (1.5 I think) and stopped trying after the first night when the hysterical child tried to climb out of the crib and bonked his head. So if you want to try CIO, now''s the time to do it, because I think it''s waaay too hard later on, and possibly dangerous.

 

[iluvcarats]

Hi Kay
I can totally relate to what you are saying. I co slept with my DD, and if you don't want to do it until she is ready not to, then you need to stop asap. My DD was similar to yours, and she didn't sleep through the night until she was over 4. It was really hard to listen to her cry,and my DD would cry until she threw up. When we were finally out of sheets and patience, we caved. Maybe when you are ready, put her down for the night, and go out for a while. It sounds like your dh can handle the crying, and who doesn't like a couple hours at Target alone?

I am not saying that I regret co sleeping, b/c I loved cuddling with her so much, and she was a hard baby to make happy. But when she was cuddled up with me in bed she was so happy and peaceful and I cherish that time I had with her, especially now that she is 10, and we are eye to eye. But it was exhausting, and I have never been so tired in my life. Funny thing though, I did the same thing with my son, and he was STTN at 9 months. Every kid is different.

Hang in there, but whatever you do, be consistent. Otherwise you'll have Pavlov's Dog on your hands.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

My little brother co-slept until he was 5. Yes, 5. As the live-in babysitter/big sister who had to literally lay in bed with him until he fell asleep several nights a week while my mom worked her second job, I do NOT recommend taking this route.

 

[TravelingGal]

I found that Parenting Mag article. It''s for older kids, but some may find it interesting.

http://www.parenting.com/article/Child/Behavior/How-to-Get-Your-Kid-To-Sleep-in-Her-Own-Bed

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 6/19/2009 10:17:12 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Whatever you decide to do, be consistent and do it now. Because an 8 month old is a world away from a 1 year old. And so on. Most of the time, sleep training only gets more difficult as time goes on.

What is her sleep schedule like now? As Janine mentioned, what is her nap schedule and what has it been like since she''s been in daycare? What time does she go to bed and what time does she wake up?

I''m with Tacori and Burk on the 20 minute rule. Yes, it is hard, but it will not kill any child nor scar them for life to let them cry for 20 minutes. It might scar you for a week though.

If you keep going in there, trust me on this one, it will only teach her how long she needs to cry to outlast you and make you come back. The more you are inconsistent, the longer they will learn to cry (and the angrier they get).

However, I wouldn''t say just dump her in there to cry without knowing more about what is going on with her sleeping day. I will say one thing, not only is consistency the key to sleep training, it is also the key to KEEPING things going well. If her bedtime is all over the place due to parental activities, it is unreasonable to expect that a child will sleep well.

Co-sleeping - it works for some, not for others. Sounds like you are not a good candidate for co-sleeping since you sleep poorly anyway. Definitely try to nip this in the bud now. It is VERY difficult to get out of when children get older. Parenting magazine just ran an article about this a month or two ago. Parenting mag isn''t known for being a hard line magazine, but the advice on this article pretty much said, sorry, but it''s going to suck and they are going to throw a tantrum during this process and you will have to stick it out and deal with their crying. My friend has a 3 year old she can''t get out of her bed yet. My other friend never learned and although the two older girls (5 and 9) finally do sleep in their own beds, they insist on crawling into bed with mommy and daddy in the early hours of the morning. Add in their 16 month old and there are FIVE people in this bed and a very tired mother.

The hardest part about sleep training is that it means 2 or 5 or 15 nights of misery for everyone involved. Sometimes it just is so much easier to go status quo and I do understand that (ask me why I still pop a paci in Amelia''s mouth now and then!) But the anxiety and exhaustion which lures you to just do what works for now will make it worse later - I can almost guarantee it. Choose something (Baby Whisperer, Happiest Baby on the Block, No Cry Sleep Solution, whatever) and STICK WITH IT.

Your baby hasn''t been taught to sleep and self soothe on her own. IMHO, co-sleeping isn''t really helpful with that. If you look at most of the PS moms, you''ll find that the women who at some point put their babies in their crib early have less issues with sleep. There aren''t very many parents who co-sleep successfully, so you may want to keep that in mind.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you Kay...sleep is so important for sanity!!

As usualy I agree with TGal on sleep stuff. But I just wanted to emphasize this highlighted point. Doing any method of sleep training in an inconsistent fashion is called a "variable reinforcement shedule" for the unwanted behaviour. Sometimes she has to cry and put up with your "strange" new bhavior for an hour, sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 10 minutes, but in the end she gets what she wants. The child learns that if they just keep it up then they get their desired outcome! And this type of learning is THE HARDEST type of learning to extinguish! Pidgeons reinforced with such a schedule will literally peck at the lever that releases food 1000s of times without giving up, waiting for that pellet to drop.

So this is why if you choose a particular sleep training method -- and there are lots of good one''s that don''t involve CIO I think -- then you have to take a deep breath and commit to it until it works, every time. Some nights it takes an hour to get Hunter down to sleep because he is fussy or whatever, but I never cave and BF him until he is asleep, though I know that would work. Because then all he will do is cry more often and for longer. But those nights of long bedtimes are so very rare, and usually a regression only lasts 2-3 days and then he is back on his regular shedule.

Given the somewhat unpredictable nature of sleep arrangements in your home now -- sometimes its you, sometimes Dad, sometimes she gets to co-sleep immediately, sometimes she has to cry for a long time -- unfortunately I suspect that you will need an iron will for a few weeks, and in the beginning you may get no sleep at all, because I suspect that she has some ingrained habits.

But a couple weeks of hard work is so worth the outcome. Who said parenting was easy, right?

 

[nycbkgirl]

no advice but lots and lots of sympathy!...i know this is not good to do but my kiddos sleep and stay sleep better on their tummies...they move their heads very well from side to side as i watch thru the monitors...when i put them on back or side they wake themselves up with their hands and or voices and the sleep is not deep. gooood luck,,,we all need some

 

[House Cat]

I would be curious to know how she sleeps at daycare and how they get her to sleep at naptime. Do you know?

 

[D&T]

So sorry to hear about this. I onced talked to a mother at the dr. office who had an eight month old that co slept with her, and tried her darndest to have her sleep in her own crib. Then she finally became more stern and consistent, and one night she let her DD cry for two hours... yes two hours, at first she would get her after 15 mnutes of crying, then 20, then half an hour then she let it go for 45 minutes of crying then finally another night, she did two hours.. Anyhow after that two hour night, Her DD slept through the rest of the night on her own (probably because she was so exhausted from crying), then the following night her DD cried again, only this time was for about one hour, then the following night another one hour, until finally she just got used to understanding that its her bedtime, and she sleeps in her own crib.

My second DD was a little different, although both my kids slept through out the night at seven weeks , one month later, my second DD regressed, and couldn''t figure out why until I took away the night light, she was a light sleeper anyways. So my first DD would need the night light on in her room, but my second needs complete darkness. Good luck. definitely check first to see what her sleeping schedule is like at daycare? marybe she''s sleeping longer than she should or more frequent?

 

[TravelingGal]

LOL DD on the pidgeons. Way to drive a point home! That is interesting!

BTW, I meant "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" on the sleep training stuff, not "Happiest Baby on the Block."

And re: CIO, for any lurkers, I would recommend the above book. Even though it does advocate CIO, the one thing I really remember about the book is that it mentions if you make sleep a priority for your baby early and learn to read your baby, you probably will never have to worry about CIO. And I found this to be true. We only had to use CIO on her twice, when she was much older (several months) and after she was sleep trained. She was being needy and after going to her a couple of times and just holding her, it was evident she just wanted to play. So we CIO''d and it took about 10 minutes, hence why I am also a believer in the 20 minute rule.

But for her sleep training, never once did we have to use it (but keep in mind we had her going the 12 hours through by 3 months). So if you don''t want to have to deal with CIO or another methods of exhaustive sleep training, start early and try not to start any habits you don''t want to keep.

 

[jas]

Whoops -- wrong thread.

No advice, sorry.

 

[Kay]

Thanks for all of the responses. Sorry to post a question and then go MIA. I have been pretty sick the past week, and any time not spent at work or with the baby I was in bed.

I know I should stop the co-sleeping soon. We are going away this weekend, so she will probably need to sleep with us at the hotel because she is not good with sleeping in strange places (she freaked out when I tried to get her to sleep in a PNP at my parent’s house). Next week we’ll try to keep her in her crib more. Most nights we try to put her in her crib first and resort to the co-sleeping if the crib doesn’t “take.”

I have to admit to being ambivalent about giving up the co-sleeping. I work all day and it is so frustrating because she is usually in a great mood in the mornings and it sucks to have to drop her off at daycare for her best hours. In the evening, we get home around 6:30, and usually have a good hour or 2 of dinner and playing before she enters her cranky mood. We can tell she is tired, but she fights going to sleep. I think because she is not with us durign the day she wants to stay up late and not miss anything. Once she goes down, there is just something so sweet about having her cuddled up next to me. It lets me make up a bit for all the time I can’t spend with her during the day. However, I do not want this to continue for the next 4 years, so I guess I need to make a change now.

Over the weekend, I went to the bookstore to buy a sleep book. DH and I looked at The Baby Whisperer book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, The No Cry Sleep Solution, and Dr. Sear’s Sleep Book. We were so confused by the variety of approaches (and DD started to get fussy) that we left with nothing. We have been inconsistent, just doing whatever it took to get as much sleep as possible on any given night.

DD usually goes to bed fairly late. Very rarely she will go to sleep early (8-9 pm), but it is usually 9:30-10:30 before she finally gets tired enough to pass out (usually while sucking a bottle). Last night she was very fussy from 10 to 11 and when I finally got her to sleep by laying down next to her, there was no way I was going to attempt to move her and risk another tantrum because I was exhausted. She slept through to 7 am with only a few whimpers because I was next to her.

She does not have a consistent nap schedule. She falls asleep when she gets tired, often in her car seat or stroller. She usually takes 1 or 2 naps at daycare --- sometimes for 20 minutes and sometimes over 2 hours. According to her daily sheets, late afternoon naps are common, and she is frequently just getting up when I pick her up at 6 pm. I asked her day care teachers about how they put her down for naps. They pretty much wait for her to pass out, often while eating. If they put her in her crib when she does not want to sleep, she screams and kicks the bars and wakes up the other babies. I apparently have a pretty strong willed child. I’m not sure how to get her on a nap schedule at this point, especially since she is in day care 4 or 5 days a week. I am a well-educated, professional woman, but my baby makes me feel like a real dummy at times.

 

[softly softly]

Date: 6/25/2009 6:54:00 PM
Author: Kay

Thanks for all of the responses. Sorry to post a question and then go MIA. I have been pretty sick the past week, and any time not spent at work or with the baby I was in bed.

I know I should stop the co-sleeping soon. We are going away this weekend, so she will probably need to sleep with us at the hotel because she is not good with sleeping in strange places (she freaked out when I tried to get her to sleep in a PNP at my parent’s house). Next week we’ll try to keep her in her crib more. Most nights we try to put her in her crib first and resort to the co-sleeping if the crib doesn’t “take.”

I have to admit to being ambivalent about giving up the co-sleeping. I work all day and it is so frustrating because she is usually in a great mood in the mornings and it sucks to have to drop her off at daycare for her best hours. In the evening, we get home around 6:30, and usually have a good hour or 2 of dinner and playing before she enters her cranky mood. We can tell she is tired, but she fights going to sleep. I think because she is not with us durign the day she wants to stay up late and not miss anything. Once she goes down, there is just something so sweet about having her cuddled up next to me. It lets me make up a bit for all the time I can’t spend with her during the day. However, I do not want this to continue for the next 4 years, so I guess I need to make a change now.

Over the weekend, I went to the bookstore to buy a sleep book. DH and I looked at The Baby Whisperer book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, The No Cry Sleep Solution, and Dr. Sear’s Sleep Book. We were so confused by the variety of approaches (and DD started to get fussy) that we left with nothing. We have been inconsistent, just doing whatever it took to get as much sleep as possible on any given night.

DD usually goes to bed fairly late. Very rarely she will go to sleep early (8-9 pm), but it is usually 9:30-10:30 before she finally gets tired enough to pass out (usually while sucking a bottle). Last night she was very fussy from 10 to 11 and when I finally got her to sleep by laying down next to her, there was no way I was going to attempt to move her and risk another tantrum because I was exhausted. She slept through to 7 am with only a few whimpers because I was next to her.

She does not have a consistent nap schedule. She falls asleep when she gets tired, often in her car seat or stroller. She usually takes 1 or 2 naps at daycare --- sometimes for 20 minutes and sometimes over 2 hours. According to her daily sheets, late afternoon naps are common, and she is frequently just getting up when I pick her up at 6 pm. I asked her day care teachers about how they put her down for naps. They pretty much wait for her to pass out, often while eating. If they put her in her crib when she does not want to sleep, she screams and kicks the bars and wakes up the other babies. I apparently have a pretty strong willed child. I’m not sure how to get her on a nap schedule at this point, especially since she is in day care 4 or 5 days a week. I am a well-educated, professional woman, but my baby makes me feel like a real dummy at times.

Kay just wanted to say I feel your pain with the sleep issues - we''ve all been there. From the above post it sounds like the most crucial thing at the moment is to get your daughter used to falling asleep on her own in her cot. Perhaps if you are able to achieve this it will be easier for her carers to get her on a nap schedule during the day which will in turn make it easier for you to get her into a better nighttime routine.

As others have mentioned, consistency and routine are crucial at this age and you should find that the better she sleeps during the day the better she sleeps at night, but I would recommend that her naps and bedtime be kept as consistent as possible. Naps need to be scheduled to allow her to get enough rest to get through the day, while still being ready for bed at a reasonable hour. Waking up from a nap at between 5.30-6 in my experience is a recipe for a difficult night. When my kids were a similar age the schedule I found that usually worked the best was: Wake around 7am, breakfast, play then down for nap around 9, nap until 11am, play, lunch at 12, nap again at one, up again at 3 play until 5.30, dinner and bath between 5.30 and 6, then last feed and snuggle of the day before bed at 6.30.

I realise that the above schedule probably does not work for you because you pick your daughter up from daycare at 6, and I can understand why you and your husband want to spend as much time as possible with her when you get home, but I really do think you will find that if she goes to bed earlier, rather than later she will sleep longer. If she has a set routine before bed (i.e dinner, bath and bottle and cuddle time) she may start to anticipate bedtime rather than try to fight it.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Kay, I am so sorry to hear that you are having difficulty with DD. My son will be 1 next week and still does not STTN. Here''s the tricks we''ve tried:

1. Put baby to bed drowsy but not sleeping.

2. Feed baby shortly before bed - we did cereal with a bit of fruit and warmed it in the microwave. Worked for a while.

3. Does your DD only sleep on her back? If so try putting her down on her tummy. I know, it''s practically a federal offense to do that but it worked wonders for us with DS.

4. When baby wakes at night, feed a warm bottle or bm in their own room, in the dark. We still do this.

5. Do you change DD''s diaper everytime she wakes? We used to, but then stopped since it seemed to make DS cry more and stay up longer. We got the overnight diapers by Huggies and skip the middle of the night changes unless he''s peed through.

6. CIO. It sounds like you are doing this. We started this with DS a few days ago and so far so good. For naps we make sure he''s got a full tummy, put him down and the first signs of tiredness and then place him in his crib, give him a little rub on his back and close the door on the way out. At night he gets his cereal/fruit with a warm bottle. He usually only cries for around 5 minutes and then will talk to himself and then will finally fall asleep. It is heartbreaking to hear him cry but he''s gotta start sleeping - much like your daughter.

The other thing that we do and have done since DS was around 6 months old is that my DH takes the night shift. Like you, I sleep poorly and if I get up in the middle of the night I have a hard time falling back to sleep. DH on the other hand sleeps like a log and can sleep anywhere, anytime so it makes sense for him to have night duty. Bad wife, I know

I wish you the best of luck in getting your DD STTN!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kay it sounds like you really need to take that first step to try and get a little more of a predictable routine in your life and in your DDs life too! You will all be happier. Your comments about loving being close to her at night really breaks my heart

, but you and she will be happier if you can induce a little more calm in you life.

If she is fussy in the evening my guess is that she is actually getting tired much earlier than she is going to bed. She probably needs her sleep! Babies under a year need around 15 - 18 hours of sleep per day, so if she is going to bed at 9pm and is up at 6am with only a couple short naps, then a lot of her willful or difficult behaviour may stem from being constantly tired.

Can you take 2 or 3 vacation days and then give yourself a good 5 days off to really tackle this with a clear plan of action? Within that time you can really getr her turned around and used to sleeping in her own crib if you attack it with the smart, will, and tenacity that I am sure you demonstrate in your career every day!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I second "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" as a good reference. I read it in desperation when DD was 4 months old. At four months I started sleep training using his advice and she woke up 2x a night. At 5 months she would wake up 1x a night. At 6 months she went consistently 7-7. Priceless! I was keeping her up WAY too long, putting her down when she was over tired and not consistently making her nap in her crib. After her weight was up (she was low weight at her 4th month appointment) the doctor okayed me to let her CIO. This works on *most* babies. This was after her 5th month check-up and my pedi told me about the "20 min rule." This worked for us. Of course it is difficult to hear your baby cry but remember she is not in danger or pain. Like "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" taught me, learning how to fall asleep is an important skill that babies must learn. Good luck!

 

[janinegirly]

I just skimmed your post Kay, but I think the naps are a big part of the problem. Because I was/am like you and haven''t been too consistent, or firm, and cave in pretty easy to my little one, and also don''t have much time with her during work days--so I can relate. BUT she does take regular naps, and is a good sleper (either I''m just lucky or the naps keep her on schedule). What I do remember from one of the few baby books I read---anything less than 45mins might as well not even be a nap. So 20mins stints aren''t enough, and then going to bed 930-10--she is so overtired, she can''t go to sleep. I wish daycare wasn''tletting her just sleep so willy nilly--is there anyway they can assist with that (I have no idea how much daycare gets involved with instilling habits, etc.)

My other suggestion is to take a few days off maybe and then see if you can work in some kind of sleep schedule with the baby when you are not under such tight time constraints. 2-3 days off work plus the weekend is a nice chunk of time. Just a thought...and those baby sleep books are very overwhelming. I read Healthy Sleep Habits as well..so maybe just get that one since it seems to consistently get recommended. I did not follow it to a tee but at least it gave me some guidelines to better understand a baby''s sleep process.

 

[TravelingGal]

Kay, if you want to buy a book, take some time and browse in peace and quiet on Amazon. I found reading the reviews of the books really helped me make my decisions. All of the books mentioned have plenty of reviews. Online shopping is a mother''s friend!

By the time she''s entered her cranky mood, she''s over tired. As others have said, it sounds like she needs an earlier bedtime. I''ll tell you now what HSHHC says about early bedtimes because if you don''t like what you hear, you can skip buying the book - parents need to protect that bedtime. That means that even though mom and dad want to play with baby because they''ve been at work all day, they need to put the child FIRST and get that kid to bed.

I work from home, so it''s easier for me to do this, I admit. But I had to discuss this with TGuy before we even had Amelia. There would be many nights he might come home and she is already in bed. I wanted to see how he felt about that. He told me he agreed it is the best for her to get the sleep. So I found that he''d wake up a little earlier in the mornings to spend some time with her then (and let''s face it...she''s happier and more receptive in the mornings anyway).

A LOT of my friends question our methods because they ask me, what about TGuy, doesn''t he want to see her when she gets home? Of course he does, but in OUR case, he would come home, play with her for about 10 or 15 minutes (this is back in the early days, because he loves playing with her now) and then want a beer. I was NOT about to keep her up a 1-2 hours MORE for that 10 minutes of play. My friends asked how she would bond with him. Well, let me tell you that he is her FAVORITE person in the whole wide world. He also dedicates his Sundays to her while I go out and have time for myself. They probably think I''m cruel to get her to bed so early without seeing dad on some days. I think it makes no sense to keep a child up until cranky stage so she can give a cranky greeting to a guy who is tired from a long day at work. And yes, those friends who question my tactic and keep their kids up still have kids who do not go down well to sleep.

As parents, we have to sacrifice what we want and give our kids what they NEED. Your girl needs sleep...I assume she is not getting enough sleep since you drop her off at daycare before work and her naps are all over the place there. Since you don''t have much control over her sleep at daycare, try to get her more sleep at home. It is possible that the nap she has in the late afternoon is more in line on when she should be going to bed for the night. After babies get their second wind (which is after the 6-8 pm recommended bedtime), they get more wired, more overtired and harder to put down.

It is hard, for sure. It sucks, for sure. My daughter is nearly 15 months old and in those 15 months I have done everything in my power to preserve bedtime and naptimes. I can only think of one exception in 15 months - once when we had an 11 pm flight to Oz (she was insanely exhausted by 9 and passed out in the stroller at the airport). My friends know I will only take her out when it is not naptime. It''s very inconvenient sometimes and I do feel trapped, but the payoff is day to day consistency. At first it''s a pain, but after awhile, it honestly just becomes habit for everyone.

Hang in there Kay!

 

[ksluice]

Another option if you feel particularly torn by the 20 mins of DD crying...still Ferber/CIO, but my sister had great luck with the consistent use of the first night''s pattern. Rather than switching right away to the longer interval, they just stuck to the 3/5/10. I guess later they did something like 3/7/12, but they really didn''t need to push it to 20, which seemed to make it easier on everyone. I think it was the consistency that was key.

"First night: Leave for three minutes the first time, five minutes the second time, and ten minutes for the third and all subsequent waiting periods.

Second night: Leave for five minutes, then ten minutes, then 12 minutes..."

Maybe you would find the shorter intervals easier?

 

[D&T]

Hey Kay - I''m wondering if it is feasible for you to spend one week with your child at home to basically train her during the day and at night? we had my parents living with us for six months when we went through some rough times a over two and half years ago when DD was about 15 months, anyhow, her schedule was so off, because my parents were the grandparents and let her do basically anything she wanted when she wanted to. We put her crib down to a toddler bed, so DD would run to my parents at night if she woke up, and slept in their beds

- that was a struggle to keep her in her own bed. When my parents left, I had to stay with my DD and basically re-trained her but only for a week, then DH stayed home a few days. It got easier, because her day sleeping schedule became more consistent, and we always put her down at 8pm, even though she cried her little eyes out some nights. DD went through another phase of falling asleep to a disney movie on the couch then I would put her in her bed all about two months.

 

[Kay]

Date: 6/25/2009 9:43:33 PM
Author: DivaDiamond007
Kay, I am so sorry to hear that you are having difficulty with DD. My son will be 1 next week and still does not STTN. Here''s the tricks we''ve tried:

1. Put baby to bed drowsy but not sleeping.

2. Feed baby shortly before bed - we did cereal with a bit of fruit and warmed it in the microwave. Worked for a while.

3. Does your DD only sleep on her back? If so try putting her down on her tummy. I know, it''s practically a federal offense to do that but it worked wonders for us with DS.

4. When baby wakes at night, feed a warm bottle or bm in their own room, in the dark. We still do this.

5. Do you change DD''s diaper everytime she wakes? We used to, but then stopped since it seemed to make DS cry more and stay up longer. We got the overnight diapers by Huggies and skip the middle of the night changes unless he''s peed through.

6. CIO. It sounds like you are doing this. We started this with DS a few days ago and so far so good. For naps we make sure he''s got a full tummy, put him down and the first signs of tiredness and then place him in his crib, give him a little rub on his back and close the door on the way out. At night he gets his cereal/fruit with a warm bottle. He usually only cries for around 5 minutes and then will talk to himself and then will finally fall asleep. It is heartbreaking to hear him cry but he''s gotta start sleeping - much like your daughter.

The other thing that we do and have done since DS was around 6 months old is that my DH takes the night shift. Like you, I sleep poorly and if I get up in the middle of the night I have a hard time falling back to sleep. DH on the other hand sleeps like a log and can sleep anywhere, anytime so it makes sense for him to have night duty. Bad wife, I know

I wish you the best of luck in getting your DD STTN!

We don''t always change her when she wakes at night, because it does just wake her up more. We only do it if we smell poop or the diaper feels really full of pee. We have only had a couple of leaks when we let her go all night, but I will look for the overnight diapers -- thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Kay]

We haven''t pushed to get her to bed earlier because we didn''t want her to wake earlier. It never occurred to me it would actually help her sleep longer. I guess we are going to have to give up our freedom to do things when we want to on weekends or to go out to dinner.

We don''t want DD''s health or development to suffer because she is not getting enough sleep. We just figured she would sleep when she is tired and needs it; I had no idea it was so complicated.

I have Friday off for the holiday, and am going to request Monday off too to try to get her on a schedule. I want to read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child before the weekend, but I can''t find it locally. It is out of stock at the local bookstores and the 2 library copies are checked out.

 

[packrat]

One of the things that was so hard w/Trapper was that we had a hard time figuring out a schedule that worked. London went to bed at 8pm and got up at 8am, like clockwork. Varied now and again, but was rare. This boy child of mine...wow. I could NOT decipher him at all. One day I happened to be flipping thru a baby magazine..American Baby or something..anyways, they had moms experiences about getting their baby to sleep, and one of the moms said she''d had a hell of a time, until she realized her son wanted to go to bed early. She''d been keeping him up until 8 or 9 or whatever..he wanted to go down at like, 5. And he slept until 5 the next morning, which worked great for them b/c that''s when they got up to get ready for work. So I thought to myself, HMMMMM maybe I have myself an early to bed early to rise boy. I started experimenting, putting him to bed earlier in 1/2 hour increments until I realized, my little boy wanted to go to bed at 5:30. Who the heck goes to bed that early???? But, it worked for him, and after a while it started being later as he got a little older. It was amazing.

He''s also very particular about having naps and getting to bed at a decent time. London was pretty laid back about that-if we were gone or had something going on and she missed her nap entirely or it was late, or she was up past her bedtime, no biggee. Trapper on the other hand...he''ll have meltdowns, so we only do it if it''s absolutely necessary. Generally I make the decision, b/c I''m the one who has to deal w/the meltdowns.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kay I think that sounds like a great plan! I want to second TGal''s advice about protecting the bedtime. We are pretty careful about it too -- Hunter goes to bed around 7pm every night. We have had to tell family we couldn''t go places and we have had to change our lives for it, but he is so much better off and in the end so are we. Waking early to play and bond is a really good idea if you hubby is up to it, and weekends mean a lot.

I will admit that there have been more than a few times when we have been places and let him sleep in his carseat and then put him to bed properly at around 9pm. For now he is okay with that, it doesn''t mess things up too much because he is *generally* a pretty good sleeper, but we really do try to avoid it. But when he is older I don''t think it will work anymore, he may become too wrapped up in his surroundings or thrown off my not having his crib. I also take him out during the days and he naps on the go -- in the car seat or in his stroller. But even though we are out, he still naps well and tends to nap at the same times. To give you an idea of our day, Hunter is 4 months old and he wakes between 6:30 and 7am, depending on how the night went (1 or 2 wakes), and he has two 45 min to and hour naps in the morning (around 8:30 am and around 11:30pm), a 1-2 hour nap around 2pm, and then depending on how long his afternoon nap was, he will have another 45 minute nap around 5. Naps move around a little for him still, I think with older kids they can be more regimented.