Need advice on getting a red garnet

[AustenNut]

I've been thinking about getting a red stone and the recent garnet thread got me looking around seriously. There are two possibilities I've found:

A custom cut stone by Gene at Precision Gem. I had seen this sold 3.7ct 10.31x9.58mm stone for $148 and there's still some of the material left. The picture has some brown in it though (I've been hanging around TL too much!) but in the description Gene wrote, "The color is a very crisp red, more of a chrome type red than the photo shows." Oh, and it's a Pyrope/almanine garnet.


The other (which I've got on hold) is at Litnon/Gemline. It's a 2.79ct rhodolite garnet that measures 8x6.8x5mm for $145. The range of pictures seem to show it as a red-red, but also a more burgundy red which I suspect is it's blacking out phase.

Basically, I'm looking for feedback. I prefer the size I'd be able to get with Gene (this will probably be for a pendant), and I don't have a stone cut by him yet, which I really would like. I've also asked him for clarification on the actual color of the stone, and I'm sure I'll hear back from him over the course of the day. But the color on the Gemline stone looks really nice to me. Or do you think I'll find something better than either if I'm more patient? As far as budget goes I'd like to keep this one under $200.

 

[chictomato]

Hi AustenNut! I would much prefer the 2nd garnet, Gene's garnet appear rather brown on my monitor. I had purchased a couple of red garnets before and yes they have this beautiful rich red in some light, but in most light condition, they simply blacks out. They are not that sparkly either. Not to mention that they are not extremely hardy stone (I made it a point to go for at least a hardness of 8 for ring stone these days, as I have lotsa awful setting experiences). Anyway, I am just sharing my garnet buying experience. Hopefully I do not dampen your interest Hope that you will find your dream garnet soon!

 

[Arcadian]

There's a small bit of brown in Gene's, but its cut really well. I love his cutting style a lot (I've got plans go get another of his stones very very soon!)

The one from litnon is also well cut and very pretty, but darker.

There was a thread around here garnets can black out, which I found to be quite an interesting read.


-A

 

[chrono]

Am I hanging around TL too much too if I see a lot of brown in Gene’s garnet as well? The Litnon garnet isn’t really red either but it shows less brown. However, it also looks to have that darkening effect in a few pictures that makes me wonder if it will black out under most lighting conditions...

 

[arjunajane]

Hey Austen,

I have just recently gone through the process of trying to find a really nice red garnet (hence why I had that info from Barry in the other thread). If I may make a couple suggestions based on what I learned during the past few weeks?
Look for ones that have pinkish-red in photos or description.
Unless you get super lucky (or find something pretty unique like Mr Zeolite's collection), the more pure red ones are simply too dark in tone, and end up looking black in most lighting.

Also, stick to medium tone over medium-dark or dark.(unless the cutter can vouch otherwise of course).

I ended up choosing a supernova oval from Barry; it looks like an awesome raspberry pinkish red with an occasional bit of purple in some lighting, in some it is very dark and in most it is a little dark but with great red sparkle and flash. I have to admit the stone had to grow on me a little after I first opened the box - but this is probably because I had unrealistic expectations for the material before they arrived.
Barry has a number of others of similar colour currently listed, plus two more I was choosing from are on their way back atm (I preferred an oval cut over a round for this stone, but he had a really nice round almost 10mm). I have some pics of all of them, let me know if you'd like me to share them if it may help.
Oh, and Barry's current sale should help you get a larger stone in budget..

I also have a larger Rhodolite which has quite a lot of red coming from Gary Braun. This is also a raspberry pinkish red colour - there is a chance he may have more similar material if you'd like to contact him.
I know he had a large piece of rough of more pure red colour, like the round red gernet he listed in his last drop that went very quickly..it may be the material could be dark after cutting, but no harm in asking.

ETA: whoops sorry ; as to the above two, I have to agree Gene's looks more zircon-ish to me, at least from this one image I am not digging the colour.
I prefer the colour on the litnon one, but there are plenty more out there if you don't want to sacrifice on size.

 

[Fly Girl]

I have one of those Tanga garnets from Litnon. They show up regularly on his site. While it does look lovely in some lights (see flower photo), it often looks dark, as everyone says. (Please excuse the dust on the table of the dark photo.)

 

[delayedreaction]

I have just recently gone through the process of trying to find a really nice red garnet (hence why I had that info from Barry in the other thread). If I may make a couple suggestions based on what I learned during the past few weeks?
Look for ones that have pinkish-red in photos or description.
Unless you get super lucky (or find something pretty unique like Mr Zeolite's collection), the more pure red ones are simply too dark in tone, and end up looking black in most lighting.

I totally agree. If you look at the asscher in my avatar, it looks to be on the lighter side, but in person, it ends up being in the same general neighborhood of the pictures you've posted. (Well depending on type of light.)

 

[movie zombie]

do not expect a pure red-red for $148 w/o extinction or over saturation. such a red garnet will sell for much more.

i like the 2nd stone in the first pictures posted because i'm a sucker for that cut. however, i know what a gene cut stone performs like and am prejudiced in that direction.

mz

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks, everybody, for your comments. And yes, I know I'm looking for a highly desired item (real red) at a low price, which my economics lessons tell me is not likely to happen. Ideally I'd like a red-red stone that stays that way all the time. In respect of price though, I'm willing to have one that sometimes darkens to more of a burgundy with red flashes (though I still want times when it looks red-red).

I've thought of spinel, but the stone would have to be so small, even if I increased my budget that I'm not sure it would have much of an impact as a pendant. (Which is why, Chictomato, I'm not afraid about the durability of the stone as it won't get the abuse that a ring would.) But I would like a nice sized piece for the pendant, and if I need to I can go up on my budget.

So, AJ and DelayedReaction, your stones appear red-red in real life? I had seen some of Barry's stones, but since I'm awaiting a magenta colored rubellite from Bob Kast I thought there would be too much overlap in the color. (My gem collection is so small that I'm really aiming for different colors at the moment rather than different shades of a color.) I would love to see pictures of that 10mm round that you sent back, ArjunaJane.

 

[arjunajane]

Hey Austen,

Sure I am happy to share the pics - but please note I was Not trying to catch the usual 'glamour shots' we see on CS - I was attempting to capture how the stone performed in different lighting so I could discuss with Barry and make a decision (and learn a lil along the way).
Basically I am saying I do not wish to prejudice anyone toward buying the round or not- it is a great size, sparkles very nicely. In the end the oval was just more 'me'

Can I also suggest who has some lovely pink-red garnets at the moment? Lisa Elser - if you don't have it already contact her for a catalogue. There are a number I was considering buying, but I had already committed myself to the rough Gary was cutting.
I can strongly recommend Lisa, and she gives a very generous PS discount too.

So here are the shots showing how pretty this garnet can look (taken in indirect afternoon sun).
Also you must excuse the dry winter skin - these pics were not taken with public consumption in mind!

 

[arjunajane]

And in the interests of disclosure and to show this 'blacking out' we have been discussing directly - here is another face of the round; doesn't seem like the same stone almost right?


and just for fun, a second shot of the round with the oval I chose to keep, with both of them showing off..
(don't ask me why the box says Lori, this is not my name)

ETA: whoops sorry to answer your question - my oval never appears true Red - in some lighting it flashes only red sparkles. But in most lighting it is a raspberry pinkish-red.

 

[T L]

Am I hanging around TL too much too if I see a lot of brown in Gene’s garnet as well?

Ha ha Chrono, I've been hanging around YOU too much.

It looks to be a very dark garnet to me, but perhaps see it in person. Gene is very good with refunds.

He sold Arjunajane the most beautiful rhodolite. I was second in his list for that stone.

He does get in some nice garnet material, like umbalites and rhodolites, so perhaps it's worth seeing it in person.

 

[arjunajane]

Am I hanging around TL too much too if I see a lot of brown in Gene’s garnet as well?

Ha ha Chrono, I've been hanging around YOU too much.

It looks to be a very dark garnet to me, but perhaps see it in person. Gene is very good with refunds.

He sold Arjunajane the most beautiful rhodolite. I was second in his list for that stone.

He does get in some nice garnet material, like umbalites and rhodolites, so perhaps it's worth seeing it in person.

Hi TL -
just a small comment, and I know it's merely technical - but that garnet from Gene was an Umbalite..
I never knew you were after that same stone...
Well, I'm afraid I can't say I am sorry as it was my first proper gem purchase and I have never regretted it..

But I do hope you can find one you like as much

 

[T L]

Am I hanging around TL too much too if I see a lot of brown in Gene’s garnet as well?

Ha ha Chrono, I've been hanging around YOU too much.

It looks to be a very dark garnet to me, but perhaps see it in person. Gene is very good with refunds.

He sold Arjunajane the most beautiful rhodolite. I was second in his list for that stone.

He does get in some nice garnet material, like umbalites and rhodolites, so perhaps it's worth seeing it in person.

Hi TL -
just a small comment, and I know it's merely technical - but that garnet from Gene was an Umbalite..
I never knew you were after that same stone...
Well, I'm afraid I can't say I am sorry as it was my first proper gem purchase and I have never regretted it..

But I do hope you can find one you like as much

Actually an umbalite is a type of rhodolite from the Umba Valley. Thanks for the clarification. I doubt I'll find one I like as much as I liked that one, but I love all your photos and your James Meyer ring is beautiful.

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks, AJ, for all your pictures! Gosh, I wish I had your talent with a camera. Anyway, I appreciate seeing Barry's 10mm. Most of the time it's too purple for my tastes, though when it was showing off, boy was it showing off!

Gemline wrote to me today about their stone and said, "The Garnet doesn't shift much from incandescent light to natural light...IMO. Perhaps a bit more pink with maybe the slightest hint of violet, but the red color is prevalent in all light conditions. I would say the color shift is about 10%." So that sounds promising.

Just to add another stone in the mix, here is one from Dana at MastercutGems.

It's a 10.7ct spessartite garnet that measures 13.5x11mm and is $380 (more than $200, I know, I know). He describes it as, "THIS IS THE LARGEST OF THIS MATERIAL I HAVE CUT AND STILL HAVE GOOD LIGHT RETURN. USUALLY THE BIGGER THEY GET THE DARKER THEY BECOME... NOT IN THIS CASE...TOTALLY NATURAL GEM WITH LOADS OF FINE RED COLOR AND FLASH, NO SECONDARY COLORS JUST RED." And in an e-mail he wrote, "The gem is rich but not black at all. It is huge for this material and it is cut for maximum brilliance. Now in a candlelit room it will have flashes of red but will not be a bright red for the size alone in a red stone will not
have the light gathering tendencies. But it is a very lovely gem with lots of flash in bright to medium light." Dana's photos aren't known for being spectacular, so I rely on his description more heavily than the photo.

So, now what do y'all think? Should I get both the stones that are already cut and see which I prefer? Or neither? Or one of them (which)? Gaaah, I'm going crazy here!!

 

[delayedreaction]

My garnet doesn't go red-red. It actually shifts a bit from the typical purple red of a rhodolite in sunlight, to more of an oxblood red under incandescent and fluorescent. It basically ends up the color of the garnets pictured, which makes me nervous since you can see how light a vendor pic makes my garnet out to be.

First is a good pic of the stone's color under most artificial lighting.
The second is my terrible handshot.
Third is outdoors in the shade.
Fourth is the vendor pic.

 

[Kismet]

Sorry for the threadjack but I have to say that I love the very masculine caulking gun shot.

 

[arjunajane]

Hi TL -
just a small comment, and I know it's merely technical - but that garnet from Gene was an Umbalite..
I never knew you were after that same stone...
Well, I'm afraid I can't say I am sorry as it was my first proper gem purchase and I have never regretted it..

But I do hope you can find one you like as much

Actually an umbalite is a type of rhodolite from the Umba Valley. Thanks for the clarification. I doubt I'll find one I like as much as I liked that one, but I love all your photos and your James Meyer ring is beautiful.

Hey TL..yup, I know which is why I said it was just a small technicality..I thought it was relevant, considering the adjacent thread about rhodolites blacking out, and how I had posted about my umbalite which never blacks out in any lighting, apparently due in part to the lower iron content.

I'm glad you enjoy seeing photos of the ring - if you ever come to AU you can wear it for the day

 

[AustenNut]

Well, I've decided to give the USPS my service since I'm having the Gemline & Mastercuts garnets sent my way. I think this is one of those things that I'm just going to have to see in person. There's not much opportunity to see gems in real life here (unless they have the very retail pricing of our local jewelers) so at a minimum this will be furthering my gem education, and hopefully be adding to be jewelry collection.

 

[chrono]

AustenNut,
Given that we know Dana takes the most horrible pictures and GemLine does one of the best, it is difficult to compare the two stones fairly, so you are doing the right thing by asking both to be sent to you so you can have them lined up side by side.

 

[mastercutgems]

Thank you Chrono

Most respectfully;

 

[Arkteia]

I don't know whether I should post it here or in "extinction" section.

Well, this is a red garnet (rhodolite? Pyrope?) and another (pink) garnet gold brooch which I bought at an antique section of a jewelry store for a song. The red garnet is dark but not black. It keeps its red in all lights. The pink is pink. My photography is probably the worst on the PS. I never photoshop anything. I brought it to an appraiser and he verified that it was a garnet all right.

Bottom line: it is an old garnet, it is red and keeps its color in all lightnings. IRL the color is exactly as the small sickle at the side of it. It is not precision cut but it is a very good cut. Maybe good mines have been worked out. I have never seen modern material that would match this one.

colored-stones/red-t137180-60.html

Page 3 of this thread. I can always take another photo if anyone is interested.

Dana, what with vendors' photoshopping their pis, "bad vendor's photographs" are a compliment.

 

[T L]

My photography is probably the worst on the PS.

Oh, I know some people that can win that prize!! My photographys stinks too. A tiny point and shoot has it's limitations.

 

[Arkteia]

Well, TL, they were discussing "the ugliest babies" thread on THE HANGOUT. Maybe it is time to start "the ugliest photographs" contest on the CS? Not to fall behind...

 

[blithesome71]

AustenNut,

Which one did you choose? Dana's 10ct garnet looks nice. Love the size & cut