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Need advice on Engagement Ring Diamond!

AlexOnFire

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
30
Hi All,
I'm new to this forum, and quite new to diamonds all together. However, over the past few weeks, I've been doing a lot of reading and learning about almost anything I can figure out just based on talking to local jewelers and some WF respresentatives. And of course, reading all over this website, including resources and forum posts.

Basically, I'm on a quite limited budget for my engagement ring (due to priorities on house down payments and wedding costs, but want something the gf will love). She's always been a fan of diamonds from big box stores, but after researching, I've decided to get an e-ring, or at least the diamond online, with a custom setting either online or locally. I've been looking at Blue Nile and WF. I know WF is much higher recommended, but I seem to have difficulty finding something I've been happy with there within my price range.

I'm looking to spend $3200-$3800 USD max on the diamond if possible, as my setting will cost me about 1500-2000 after looking around locally at custom jewelers and whiteflash. It will be a solitaire setting, yellow gold, with surprise black diamond stones and a main diamond, I'm thinking between 0.8 and 0.9ct to fall into my budget. I want clarity of VS2 or better, with a color of I or better. The people over at WF have been amazing with my questions and have suggested some options.

The stone I've considered at WF is ACA, but it appears to have a noticeable inclusion: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3667385.htm - how do you think this would be - it's still a VS clarity, and being ACA, I would think there shouldn't be any noticeable inclusions, or at least be very eye clean. HCA scores are great on it.

The ones I've been looking at Blue Nile are:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08567068
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08245748

Both of these are GIA triple Ex, good clarity, color, non-fluoro. I've also plugged the numbers in the HCA tool and they come out good (1.3 and 1.9 respectively). 360 images of the diamonds look great and I can't see anything, probably because of the VVS ratings. And price is good/better than the WF stone I mentioned.

What are your opinions on the stones above? And any thoughts on the very noticeable inclusion on the WF ACA stone?

Also, feel free to recommend any other options. My local jeweler who can do a custom setting for me with what I want showed me a VS2, H color, Triple EX, 0.80ct for about 3350. HCA numbers weren't great though. 58%, 62.4%, 35 and 41.2 degree angles. No fluoro, with feather and crystal clarity chars. I figured I'd be better getting my diamond online and getting a custom setting there if needed.

Thanks in advance for any and all help!

Note, I can't really see the diamonds in person as I'm located in Canada :(
 
All the stones posted have been nice (except local jeweler) but I'd go with the Super Branded Ideal ACA stone in a heartbeat. They have an excellent
upgrade policy if say 5-10 years down the road you would like to upgrade.
 
If you'll be upgrading in the future, definitely agree with tyty on going with WF since their upgrade policy doesn't require you to spend double. At WF, this one also looks nice and the crystal is a lot smaller although they should both be very eye clean at this size: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3660690.htm

However, there are several stones at JA that fit your budget and requirements:
love this one that flyingpig recommended: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2569073
AGS 000 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-1829110
IF stone w/o price tag https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2469842
nice H: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2629031

Another super ideal vendor but upgrade policy isn't as generous as WF: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/0.830-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104092974026
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...04-h-vs1-round-diamond-402.00-bl-104092974096
 
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2569073
very safe purchase.

If your budget is limited... try USA CERTED.
http://diamonddealfinder.com/enquiry.php?id_field=6086230
It just happens to be IF

Are you in GTA? Consider working with USA CERTED DIAMONDS in Thornhill, ON. Their website needs some serious rehab. But the company and the owner, Martin, got really good reviews here with rock bottom price

Thanks! That stone seems really good. It's only a bit more than the JA one I posted above but larger and seems to be better. Though its VS1 vs VVS1. From you experts, it it better than the JA one I posted above this? Also, yes I"m in the GTA - I'll try and swing by USA Certed tomorrow if I can. Any suggestions on what I should look for there, or just give a price, specs, and go from there? I don't want to end up with a stone like the local jeweler showed me since this is my first rodeo :(

All the stones posted have been nice (except local jeweler) but I'd go with the Super Branded Ideal ACA stone in a heartbeat. They have an excellent
upgrade policy if say 5-10 years down the road you would like to upgrade.

By Super Branded Ideal ACA, do you mean the white flash diamond I mentioned in the first post? I just hate that inclusion and don't want to end up with a diamond that has something easily visible :( I love WF's upgrade policy as well, and I guess that's also a part of why there's a premium it seems on their collection.

If you'll be upgrading in the future, definitely agree with tyty on going with WF since their upgrade policy doesn't require you to spend double. At WF, this one also looks nice and the crystal is a lot smaller although they should both be very eye clean at this size: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3660690.htm

However, there are several stones at JA that fit your budget and requirements:
love this one that flyingpig recommended: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2569073
AGS 000 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-1829110
IF stone w/o price tag https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2469842
nice H: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2629031

Another super ideal vendor but upgrade policy isn't as generous as WF: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/0.830-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104092974026
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...04-h-vs1-round-diamond-402.00-bl-104092974096
Gah! So many more options. Thank you!

Okay, given that I want to stick with WF or JA, and all the above in all the posts, including my own, are within my budget, which should I go for? I'm so torn right now, and now I have more choices that I didn't even see before :)

I'll check the local place mentioned, but I am good with almost any of the above. Is the 0.85 JA True Hearts the best out of the bunch? Or should I go with one of the WF stones with those noticeable inclusions (either the one I posted, or the one posted by ac117).
 
Just a question, but have you spoken to WF about the inclusion on their .847 ACA? Or are you just concerned about it because of the photo?

I see it is marked as eye clean on their site - which is a very good sign, along with the VS grading.
Remember these photos are so zoomed in! For example, this might give a realistic view of the size of this stone (ignore the comparison w/ a 1 ct stone) - and your ability to see the inclusion will be quite different in real life vs. the image on the site.
http://www.diamdb.com/compare/0.85ct-round-6.07x6.11x0-vs-1ct-round/

If this is the stone you like the most, call them and see what they say! Also, you might want to reserve it if you're very interested - often stones that are talked about on PS get snapped up by lurkers.

Now, perhaps you want a very mind-clean stone (totally ok - everyone has their own preferences). But why is this inclusion bothering you? Are you feeling like clarity is a measure of sparkliness? Typically not, especially at VS clarity. Is this due to a cultural preference about high clarity? Worried your partner is going to find a big ugly mark on her stone? :)

For what it's worth, one of my studs is an SI2 with a black carbon inclusion under the table. I couldn't find it without a loupe - and now that I know where to look I have to angle it juuuuuust right and have good lighting to see it with my naked eyes if I search. Now, this stone is smaller than what you're considering (5.6mm vs. 6.1mm of the .847) and I probably wouldn't buy an SI2 stone for my finger, but it taught me a lot about eye cleanliness.

Happy hunting!
 
I'll check the local place mentioned, but I am good with almost any of the above. Is the 0.85 JA True Hearts the best out of the bunch? Or should I go with one of the WF stones with those noticeable inclusions (either the one I posted, or the one posted by ac117).

I believe WF has 20x magnification on their images and vids. The inclusion in your original post is in a relatively good location as it blends in with the arrow shaft. If I was smack bang in the middle of the table, you would notice it much more. But think about how big the stone is, it's roughly 6mm in diameter. That crystal is probably going to be half of a millimeter in reality (at most). Are you going to be able to notice that from a foot away? Unless your eyesight is ridiculously good, probably not, unless you bring it in closer and look for it.
 
I believe WF has 20x magnification on their images and vids. The inclusion in your original post is in a relatively good location as it blends in with the arrow shaft. If I was smack bang in the middle of the table, you would notice it much more. But think about how big the stone is, it's roughly 6mm in diameter. That crystal is probably going to be half of a millimeter in reality (at most). Are you going to be able to notice that from a foot away? Unless your eyesight is ridiculously good, probably not, unless you bring it in closer and look for it.

While I agree that the inclusion is really very tiny compared to what you're seeing on the screen (and I do think they are most likely eye clean), it only blends in with the arrow shaft bc it it reflecting the lens of the camera. In real life, you don't get those dark arrows unless something is in front of the stone so I don't fully agree that the inclusion is in a good location. I'd much rather have it off to the side hidden by a prong.

OP, I'd ask WF to pull both diamonds and tell you what they see, how eye clean they both are and go from there.
 
If the OP were from the US, I would say go for the WF ACA.
But he's not. Any return shipping from Canada to US is very inconvenient and costly.

That's inclusion is border-line acceptable for VS2 to me.
 
While I agree that the inclusion is really very tiny compared to what you're seeing on the screen (and I do think they are most likely eye clean), it only blends in with the arrow shaft bc it it reflecting the lens of the camera. In real life, you don't get those dark arrows unless something is in front of the stone so I don't fully agree that the inclusion is in a good location. I'd much rather have it off to the side hidden by a prong.

OP, I'd ask WF to pull both diamonds and tell you what they see, how eye clean they both are and go from there.

If there was obstruction, yes, it's in a good location. Agree that the OP should get WF to pull it from the shelves and ask about the eye clean nature.
 
Just a question, but have you spoken to WF about the inclusion on their .847 ACA? Or are you just concerned about it because of the photo?

I see it is marked as eye clean on their site - which is a very good sign, along with the VS grading.
Remember these photos are so zoomed in! For example, this might give a realistic view of the size of this stone (ignore the comparison w/ a 1 ct stone) - and your ability to see the inclusion will be quite different in real life vs. the image on the site.
http://www.diamdb.com/compare/0.85ct-round-6.07x6.11x0-vs-1ct-round/

If this is the stone you like the most, call them and see what they say! Also, you might want to reserve it if you're very interested - often stones that are talked about on PS get snapped up by lurkers.

Now, perhaps you want a very mind-clean stone (totally ok - everyone has their own preferences). But why is this inclusion bothering you? Are you feeling like clarity is a measure of sparkliness? Typically not, especially at VS clarity. Is this due to a cultural preference about high clarity? Worried your partner is going to find a big ugly mark on her stone? :)

For what it's worth, one of my studs is an SI2 with a black carbon inclusion under the table. I couldn't find it without a loupe - and now that I know where to look I have to angle it juuuuuust right and have good lighting to see it with my naked eyes if I search. Now, this stone is smaller than what you're considering (5.6mm vs. 6.1mm of the .847) and I probably wouldn't buy an SI2 stone for my finger, but it taught me a lot about eye cleanliness.

Happy hunting!

Thanks! The main concern is I just wouldn't feel right if there was something noticeable. This ring means a lot to me and I know it means even more to her ;) And I want it to be perfect. Or as perfect as can be without breaking the bank. I'm even getting it semi-customized and WF is doing a wonderful job to accomodate my little wants (black diamond surprise stones and a little something else). It is a stone I like, but not that I like the most - to be honest, I can't even tell what I like the most after all of the suggestions in this thread :( I just want something that shines, a decent size, and that looks great :) And I hear nothing but good when it comes to ACA diamonds. And honestly, even with me being in Canada, WF seems to be super helpful and responsive to my endless questions.

I've asked them to take a look at the 0,847 and the 0.82 ACA stones mentioned in this thread to let me know about eye-cleanliness and just general quality and look of the stones.

I believe WF has 20x magnification on their images and vids. The inclusion in your original post is in a relatively good location as it blends in with the arrow shaft. If I was smack bang in the middle of the table, you would notice it much more. But think about how big the stone is, it's roughly 6mm in diameter. That crystal is probably going to be half of a millimeter in reality (at most). Are you going to be able to notice that from a foot away? Unless your eyesight is ridiculously good, probably not, unless you bring it in closer and look for it.
I know, and in an email before, the rep told me that the inclusion won't be noticeable by the naked eye. I guess the zoomed in image just makes it look worse. But then, I see stones on JA where I see NOTHING on their zoomed in stones, so are these True Hearts stones BETTER than the ACA one at WF?

While I agree that the inclusion is really very tiny compared to what you're seeing on the screen (and I do think they are most likely eye clean), it only blends in with the arrow shaft bc it it reflecting the lens of the camera. In real life, you don't get those dark arrows unless something is in front of the stone so I don't fully agree that the inclusion is in a good location. I'd much rather have it off to the side hidden by a prong.

OP, I'd ask WF to pull both diamonds and tell you what they see, how eye clean they both are and go from there.
Thank you! This is exactly what I did - hoping to hear from them soon, so I can pick one out and get it set asap!
If the OP were from the US, I would say go for the WF ACA.
But he's not. Any return shipping from Canada to US is very inconvenient and costly.

That's inclusion is border-line acceptable for VS2 to me.
I still haven't had a chance to go to the place in Thornill :( Is return shipping really that bad to the US? I never really considered that. And I didn't think there would be any problem from them to Canada (I'll be charged local taxes which is obvious), and otherwise I figured shipping would be fine. Am I missing something? Do Canadians not typically order from the US?

Also, by border-line acceptable, do you mean it's sitting on the line between VS2 and SI, or that it is barely an issue for a VS2 stone, and shouldn't even make me reconsider :)

Thanks again everyone. You guys rock! (pun intended!)
 
FYI, I talked to the WF rep who's been helping me.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3667385.htm
She said the inclusion on this cannot be seen from 10" away, but after using magnification and knowing where it was, once she moves it to 6" or less from her eye, she can notice it, even though it is very small.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3660690.htm
With this one, she said she could not notice anything with the naked eye, even going right up to it. Even after inspecting with a loupe, she could not see the inclusions.

Thoughts on these? Or any others that you may thing are better from JA, BN, etc above? I'm leaning towards the 0.82 now, but like some of the JA stones too, but not sure! Gah!

Thanks again!
 
There are definitely stones that are borderline VS2/SI1. If another grader at AGS had looked at it, they may have graded it as a high SI1 rather than a low VS2. Either way, it's within a gemological tolerance that is accepted by the industry on grading.

There are some inclusions which may not be visible in videos. Crystals and feathers are usually visible in these types of vids that vendors like JA take. But others, like clouds, twinning wisps or pinpoints may not be visible unless one looks at a stone with darkfield illumination.

If you can't see any inclusions on a JA vid, that's however a good sign usually that the stone may be a decent performer and it is eye clean.

The .821 ACA is a much better stone from a "mind clean" perspective given that in the photos on the listing, you can't actually see anything. And whether you will miss that extra 0.05mm in diameter is hard to tell.
 
I would go with the cleaner one (the .82) from WF-- the difference in size would be so tiny (if noticeable at all), it wouldn't be worth it if your girlfriend has eagle eyes. I think they'll be the most reliable for a good custom setting, too.
 
By Super Branded Ideal ACA, do you mean the white flash diamond I mentioned in the first post? I just hate that inclusion and don't want to end up with a diamond that has something easily visible :( I love WF's upgrade policy as well, and I guess that's also a part of why there's a premium it seems on their collection.

I would go with a Whiteflash ACA in a heartbeat, whether it be this particular stone or another one from their in-house inventory. Yes, they come at a premium, but to be brutally honest WF's premium is incredibly reasonable compared with BGD Black, HOF, CBI, etc. and their diamonds are every bit as beautiful (to me, at least... YMMV). I only mention this because I have admittedly learned the hard way... :wall:But I consider myself a teensy bit older and a ton wiser now! :lol:
 
I recommend Whiteflash and their ACA stones and even their expert selection. I have had my 3 stone 1.80 3 stone trellish for about 3-4 weeks now.. I have never seen stones more brilliant.. my stones glitter in dark light... and they shoot off rainbow colors (yes I have to take pix).. I hold Whiteflash in high regards as I do Good Old Gold.. truly companies that deliver what they promise and their employees are all great. Best of luck.
 
There are definitely stones that are borderline VS2/SI1. If another grader at AGS had looked at it, they may have graded it as a high SI1 rather than a low VS2. Either way, it's within a gemological tolerance that is accepted by the industry on grading.

There are some inclusions which may not be visible in videos. Crystals and feathers are usually visible in these types of vids that vendors like JA take. But others, like clouds, twinning wisps or pinpoints may not be visible unless one looks at a stone with darkfield illumination.

If you can't see any inclusions on a JA vid, that's however a good sign usually that the stone may be a decent performer and it is eye clean.

The .821 ACA is a much better stone from a "mind clean" perspective given that in the photos on the listing, you can't actually see anything. And whether you will miss that extra 0.05mm in diameter is hard to tell.
Thanks for the tips. I did also feel the same, as I thought it was completely eye-clean and found out the inclusion was actually visible close up. Glad I stumbled on the other ring - the slight difference in size isn't a big deal.
I would go with the cleaner one (the .82) from WF-- the difference in size would be so tiny (if noticeable at all), it wouldn't be worth it if your girlfriend has eagle eyes. I think they'll be the most reliable for a good custom setting, too.
I would go with a Whiteflash ACA in a heartbeat, whether it be this particular stone or another one from their in-house inventory. Yes, they come at a premium, but to be brutally honest WF's premium is incredibly reasonable compared with BGD Black, HOF, CBI, etc. and their diamonds are every bit as beautiful (to me, at least... YMMV). I only mention this because I have admittedly learned the hard way... :wall:But I consider myself a teensy bit older and a ton wiser now! :lol:
I recommend Whiteflash and their ACA stones and even their expert selection. I have had my 3 stone 1.80 3 stone trellish for about 3-4 weeks now.. I have never seen stones more brilliant.. my stones glitter in dark light... and they shoot off rainbow colors (yes I have to take pix).. I hold Whiteflash in high regards as I do Good Old Gold.. truly companies that deliver what they promise and their employees are all great. Best of luck.
Thanks everyone. I ended up putting the .82 on reserve and *was* sure I was going to go with that after I get confirmation of my setting and all. I think WF is definitely the way I'll be going, at least for sure for the diamond, but looking at one other alternative for the setting locally.

While reading a bit more online, I found that everyone mentions going with a slightly less colorless diamond ends up being perfectly fine, if not better, when set on yellow gold. As I'll be getting a yellow gold setting for the GF, would going with a J be a good idea? I found an ACA on WF, larger than the .82, and cheaper. Looks eyeclean, has an HCA score of 1.5, and hearts and arrows for days.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3842168.htm

Would this be a better option for me as I'm going with the yellow setting. I don't mind spending the extra on the 0.82 since it falls in my budget, but I figure if I can get a larger stone, with just a bit of color which looks no different on a yellow setting, for cheaper, I can use the extra $ on the wedding band/wedding/house/diamond upgrade down the road.

Thanks again, and so sorry for all the questions. Don't know where I'd be without you all!
 
I love J color stones. My fiance and I love them. To me, it is white enough. Your mileage may vary.
But that 0.88J VS1 is a ridiculously amazing deal.
0.9 J VS1 ACA can cost upto $5k. We are talking US$1.7k discount, because of 0.02c shortage.

Even from virtual inventory, a well cut 0.9c J VS1 can cost 3.3~3.5k.
 
I love J color stones. My fiance and I love them. To me, it is white enough. Your mileage may vary.
But that 0.88J VS1 is a ridiculously amazing deal.
0.9 J VS1 ACA can cost upto $5k. We are talking US$1.7k discount, because of 0.02c shortage.

Even from virtual inventory, a well cut 0.9c J VS1 can cost 3.3~3.5k.
Thank you! Yes, the moment I saw it, I fell in love. Still near-colorless, though near the bottom, but a great cut, better clarity (VS1 vs VS2), and a larger stone. As it is, I was above my initial budget so every little bit helps, even if I end up with a better diamond in the process! I've gone ahead and reserved that stone and am 99% set on it now :) Unless there's anything negative to say about it, I'm all ears!

I've asked for a quick eye and loupe check on it though, but at VS1, I don't anticipate any issues. From the report though, I do notice the inclusions to be near the edges (feathers). I've read inclusions around edges to be sometimes risky in terms of structural integrity, but do those look to be a problem?
 
There is nothing to worry about the cut and inclusion. VS1 is mind-clean.
I had a similar budget (5k) and am from Canada, and considered a standard 1.0c I VS2 initially.
I spent months researching and searching. When I found my 0.9c J VS1 at James Allen, I just went for it. Some stones really speak to you.

I knew the risk I was taking. At the worst, I propose within the 30 day return window, and if my wife does not like J color, I pay the return shipping (which isn't cheap) and get a refund.

You should speak to your fiancee and discuss about diamond color. If you want to keep it secret, there is a risk. In addition, since you are considering going with a custom route with two vendors (WF + local jeweller), any return and exchange can be really tricky. First, you are more likely to miss the WF's 30 day return window. Second, return or exchange for a custom setting is rather limited.

Know your risk and go for it. The J is beautiful. I would have picked this one instead of the one I found, if it were available...
 
The diamond you picked is gorgeous. I can't wait to see it in the YG swan setting.
 
Thanks! It's currently with Vatche, so the waiting game it is! Will be sure to update a post with pictures once I have it with me :)
 
Lovely! WF offers Vatche settings even those that are not on their website. Did you go with them to set also?
 
Lovely! WF offers Vatche settings even those that are not on their website. Did you go with them to set also?
Yes I did! :) Everything through WF but now it's in Vatche's hands for some extra customizations I requested :) Have to say, I see why everyone here recommends WF. Their service is INCREDIBLE. I just can't wait to see the final product, and can't wait to see the look on my gf's face :)
 
Can't wait to see the finished result! It will be gorgeous!
 
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