Need Advice on CAD vs Forged

[doublegg]

I've searched, read & re-read hundreds of threads going back nearly 10 years about the differences between CAD/Cast and Hand Forged. I know this topic has been legislated to death on these forums but I am here looking for direction.

WANT: Halo with second row at 90 degrees.

I am have spoken with the usual suspected so often mentioned on PS about doing my setting as well as a custom house here in Chicago. I am getting a wide range of differing opinions and advice and need some help to clarify.

1) Metal- All of the hand forged recommend and only work with Platinum. They are lock step in its superior performance. The local bench recommends 14k WG as they feel it provides a better long term solution for pave durability. Thoughts?

2) Local Jeweler has an impressive resume of designing prior to going out on her own. She claims to have relationships with the best diamond setter in Chicago. She is confident that they can produce a setting that is as delicate as the ones shown so often on PS. She assures me that the pave will be set with as little metal as you'd find with a VS,SK,LM, etc. From what I've seen, cast doesn't produce this result in the real world.

2a) Should I be asking more about her cast method. Ie: Is the base metal cast and stones are then drilled and set - much like the method of the hand forged? Is this a good solution?

3) So many deal with benches that are across the country with great results. My gf is a small biz owner in the printing space and would most assuredly like to have a local relationship to care for her ring moving forward. She believes in supporting other female owned businesses to a point. If quality or ring execution is not on par, that relationship value declines.

I welcome any and all feedback and direction. Thank you!

 

[bludiva]

from what i understand, part of the popularity of micropave styles is due to the cad/cast process making them more accessible. i think the ring you describe can be created either way, it just comes down to the process you feel more comfortable with.

my guess is people who hand forge prefer platinum and high karat gold (18/22) because it's nicer to work with. 14k is stronger but more brittle.

if you ideologically lean to the local jeweler, maybe find out what the process is if you're not happy with the result. will she give you a refund less the cad fee or something like that where it's not too much of a risk?

 

[AV_]

It might be the only kind of pave I would go to LM; the setting itself is a species of engraving & it cannot be done on Pt 'sponge' [grainy metal, best assessed via EBSD or fealt by graver... a bulky hand held variant of AFM, come to think of it!]. I prefer how he adjusts the size of pave & angles between rows into a plausibly smooth surface... I do not want to know what he charges these days for such a setting.

Because such work is already pushing every limit of materials & technique, I would be careful to take 'No' for an aswer regarding details; these days, one has to ask for 'No' ,(

one half too many beers

 

[sledge]

DK did my wife's custom setting, using a CAD + cast process. She has lots of pave as well, and DK also recommended WG over platinum. I was a little shocked and disappointed to hear this, as I really wanted a good excuse to go platinum as I feel it's the superior metal. Just my (now) wife prefers the shiny look of WG.

What I learned is that DK utilizes a special alloy blend with palladium that most jewelers don't use. The palladium gives the whitening and strength, and since it's an alloy it doesn't require rhodium plating (which was another concern of mine getting WG).

My point being -- you may want to ask the local jeweler if she is using a special alloy blend of WG similar to DK that would somehow provide different strength and/or elasticity values that she prefers.

One thing about platinum is the elasticity is different, meaning, instead of breaking it "pushes" around upon impact.

 

[doublegg]

@sledge I am waiting on DK to get back to me with some more info. His price seemingly is the best I have found but have read working with him requires a more hands on approach than VC or LM. What was your experience?

 

[Victor Canera]

Hi @doublegg

I thought I would chime in here;

1) Metal- All of the hand forged recommend and only work with Platinum. They are lock step in its superior performance. The local bench recommends 14k WG as they feel it provides a better long term solution for pave durability. Thoughts?

Objectively, white gold is not as durable as platinum (especially for pave IMHO). I’m sure there are even scientific studies that will back this up. The advantage comes from the higher density of platinum to gold. I don’t want to offend but what your vendor is saying is incorrect. For pave durability, platinum is the absolute best option. As an example; repolish two idenitcal rings, one in platinum one in white gold. The Platinum piece may lose less than 1% of its weight while the WG piece may lose up to 10% of its weight after repolishing. After a single repoilsh, that white gold piece (especialy with pave) may be done. Hand fabricated platinum is even stronger than cast platinum due to the added density from the exerted pressures used to bend and form it into shape. There is a reason why estate platinum jewelry is still around, some from 80 years ago… Since platinum casting wasn’t invented until the 90s, estate platinum jewelry was all hand fabricated.

2) Local Jeweler has an impressive resume of designing prior to going out on her own. She claims to have relationships with the best diamond setter in Chicago.

Diamond setting is actually a separate part of the process from hand fabrication. Hand fabrication refers to the base metal work on the ring prior to setting the diamonds. The metal frame as it were. When you have an excellent base “chassis” to start with, the result tends to be better. Imagine if the metal work on a car wasn’t so great. A lot of touching up and paint will cover over the blemishes but it still won’t be like an original. What confuses the subject is that there is “cast pave” which is usually reserved for price point jewelry.

3) So many deal with benches that are across the country with great results. My gf is a small biz owner in the printing space and would most assuredly like to have a local relationship to care for her ring moving forward. She believes in supporting other female owned businesses to a point. If quality or ring execution is not on par, that relationship value declines.

This is understandable. It’s an admirable thing to want to support a local small business. Just make sure that they have examples of the product and that you’re happy with it.

Good luck!

 

[distracts]

1. Go with what the jeweler you pick recommends. Don’t make them work outside of their preferred metal. Personally for a pave engagement ring, I would get platinum, and I would only work with a jeweler who preferred to do it in platinum. But if you pick a jeweler who recommends white gold, consider that they may not be as experienced working with platinum and you may get worse results forcing them to work in a metal they are less familiar with.

2. Ask to see examples of her work. Either actual pieces you can loupe or hi-res photographs from multiple angles. Only hire if there are examples very, very close to what you want.

3. You can still go to the local jeweler for prong checks, buying other things, etc. Creating a relationship with a local jeweler doesn’t have to mean buying your engagement ring from them. Many of us have relationships with local jewelers while having never bought a major piece from them, but we consistently bring them minor work and buy smaller things. Buy a plain metal wedding band there, for instance. We all like to support local businesses but sometimes if you want the right thing, you can’t.

 

[caf]

1. Go with what the jeweler you pick recommends. Don’t make them work outside of their preferred metal. Personally for a pave engagement ring, I would get platinum, and I would only work with a jeweler who preferred to do it in platinum. But if you pick a jeweler who recommends white gold, consider that they may not be as experienced working with platinum and you may get worse results forcing them to work in a metal they are less familiar with.

2. Ask to see examples of her work. Either actual pieces you can loupe or hi-res photographs from multiple angles. Only hire if there are examples very, very close to what you want.

3. You can still go to the local jeweler for prong checks, buying other things, etc. Creating a relationship with a local jeweler doesn’t have to mean buying your engagement ring from them. Many of us have relationships with local jewelers while having never bought a major piece from them, but we consistently bring them minor work and buy smaller things. Buy a plain metal wedding band there, for instance. We all like to support local businesses but sometimes if you want the right thing, you can’t.

This!

 

[Polabowla]

I'm surprised to hear platinum is stronger ; my mother has a classic 6 prong solitaire platinum engagement ring & it broke in half (after about 40 yrs of having it ).

 

[MrsBlue]

I'm surprised to hear platinum is stronger ; my mother has a classic 6 prong solitaire platinum engagement ring & it broke in half (after about 40 yrs of having it ).

Mine did too. I suspect it was resized at some point and cracked along the solder line.

 

[denverappraiser]

The attribute of platinum that makes it stronger is that it doesn’t work harden. With most metals, including white gold, if you hit them with a hammer against an anvil a few, or a few hundred times, they get springy. Springs pop up. They snag on things. They break. Platinum doesn’t. If you hit it, it gets thinner. If you bend it, it bends. It doesn't break.

Think about the wear on an individual bead or prong tip. Diamonds make pretty good anvils, and the rest of the world makes a pretty good hammer. On your hands, those little beads take quite a beating. With gold, they can pop up and break, with platinum they have to literally abrade away. That’s a LOT more difficult. The result is that platinum is significantly more durable for this kind of work even though the metal is softer.

 

[Polabowla]

But my mom's ring didn't break by a prong, the actual band of the ring broke in half from daily wear.
ETA I don't know if my mother's ring was sized beforehand

 

[oldminer]

"Since platinum casting wasn’t invented until the 90s, estate platinum jewelry was all hand fabricated."

Nearly all the advice provided of the above is dead accurate. There are advantages to platinum and to gold. Long term, hand forged platinum tends to be very long lasting when compared to cast items. Using palladium as an alloy in platinum does keep the end result metal whiter without rhodium, but you cannot size or repair the ring without advising the jeweler of the palladium alloy being present. Some special effort much be used to properly weld or solder that special metal combination. No problem if you inform your jeweler in advance.

However, the above quote is inaccurate. Platinum was being cast much earlier in the 1970's and before for use in jewelry. We made thousands of platinum cast components in the early 70's and it was not a new thing even then. It isn't a big deal, but cast platinum does not indicate an item is from the 90's or more recent.

The advent of CAD production has led to a big re-invention of creativity and the possibility of making complex cast items that formerly only could be made by hand or could not even have been made at all. The degree of precision in CAD models can be outstanding if the operator is skilled in the CAD process. Without proper skill and training, CAD designs can be overly heavy, too light, and are too often somewhat clumsy. The artist's touch and skill are still a large part of the mix in getting a well made and attractive item with sufficient durability potential.

 

[doublegg]

So many great responses and advice here. In further discussions with the intended, platinum has become the clear winner - mainly based on the desire to not have to deal with dipping.

As far as cast/forged, the ultimate deciding factor is going to be the talent of the fabricator. I have requested the local vendor supply some macro photography of recent pieces done that are similar to what we are looking for. To my untrained eye, I may not know the difference in the pave quality but am sure that some of you will.

If you'd all be so inclined, would you lend your expertise as to the precision of the photos? Based on your feedback I will hopefully be able to decide between the luxury forged designer or my local shop.

Thank you to all the industry insiders who take their time to help us make well informed decisions.