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Need advice on buying engagement stone

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ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
Well I am new to PS, I have been researching diamonds (for an engagement ring) for many months but it is time to really start thinking about buying one. I have gone to many B&M shops with my girlfriend to look at settings (I think we are going for a custom setting from Cooper Jewelers in Warren NJ), but I decided I should probably try to get the diamond online. My budget is around $8600 for the diamond itself, approximately 1.35 carats round brilliance, eye clean (VS2-SI1), color G-H (unless someone can convince me otherwise), and the best cut I can afford for my budget. The area that I am least informed about is the cut. Should I be worried about polish and symmetry? I mean, my girlfriend and I don''t care how it looks under a microscope, all we care about is how it looks to the eye. Also I am unsure which online merchant to buy from. It would be nice to be able to use a wire transfer and save a few percent off of the purchase price.

What do you guys think about
-Union Diamond
-Blue Nile
-Whiteflash
-GoodOldGold


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5255/

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs2-clarity_LD01027346?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1987573.htm

If anyone has any extra advice, it is welcomed. Thanks in advance guys/girls!!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/23/2009 4:40:55 AM
Author:ptn34234
Well I am new to PS, I have been researching diamonds (for an engagement ring) for many months but it is time to really start thinking about buying one. I have gone to many B&M shops with my girlfriend to look at settings (I think we are going for a custom setting from Cooper Jewelers in Warren NJ), but I decided I should probably try to get the diamond online. My budget is around $8600 for the diamond itself, approximately 1.35 carats round brilliance, eye clean (VS2-SI1), color G-H (unless someone can convince me otherwise), and the best cut I can afford for my budget. The area that I am least informed about is the cut. Should I be worried about polish and symmetry? I mean, my girlfriend and I don't care how it looks under a microscope, all we care about is how it looks to the eye. Also I am unsure which online merchant to buy from. It would be nice to be able to use a wire transfer and save a few percent off of the purchase price.

What do you guys think about
-Union Diamond
-Blue Nile
-Whiteflash
-GoodOldGold


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5255/

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs2-clarity_LD01027346?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1987573.htm

If anyone has any extra advice, it is welcomed. Thanks in advance guys/girls!!

Welcome!

Firstly it is said good and above for polish and symmetry look the same to the naked untrained eye, however if you want a top cut diamond then excellent or ideal is usually part of that package.

Cut is incredibly important if you are going to end up with a pretty diamond, here is are some numbers you can use as a guide to find a well cut round diamond.

epth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above
note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!


From expert John Pollard.

"As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.


GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35)."
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/23/2009 4:40:55 AM
Author:ptn34234
Well I am new to PS, I have been researching diamonds (for an engagement ring) for many months but it is time to really start thinking about buying one. I have gone to many B&M shops with my girlfriend to look at settings (I think we are going for a custom setting from Cooper Jewelers in Warren NJ), but I decided I should probably try to get the diamond online. My budget is around $8600 for the diamond itself, approximately 1.35 carats round brilliance, eye clean (VS2-SI1), color G-H (unless someone can convince me otherwise), and the best cut I can afford for my budget. The area that I am least informed about is the cut. Should I be worried about polish and symmetry? I mean, my girlfriend and I don't care how it looks under a microscope, all we care about is how it looks to the eye. Also I am unsure which online merchant to buy from. It would be nice to be able to use a wire transfer and save a few percent off of the purchase price.

What do you guys think about
-Union Diamond
-Blue Nile
-Whiteflash
-GoodOldGold


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5255/

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs2-clarity_LD01027346?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1987573.htm

If anyone has any extra advice, it is welcomed. Thanks in advance guys/girls!!
With the diamonds you posted, the BN diamond looks good, it is always best to have images such as ASET or Idealscope but BN do not provide them. This diamond falls within fiery ideal cut range ( FIC) which means it could show a greater display of fire or coloured light if the lighting was conducive.

The WF diamond appears to be a non in house diamond but due to the info we have I would pass on that one.

Here are some popular PS vendors you can check out.

Whiteflash and Good old Gold are on the list, GOG are near you in LI, and here are a few more.

www.highperformancediamonds.com

www.jamesallen.com

www.exceldiamonds.com ( in the diamond district NYC, you can make an appointment)

Also these vendors take payment by bank wire so no problems there, also there is sometimes a discount for bank wire payments.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
If you are based in NJ, Good Old Gold might be a good choice. Their store front is at Long Island so it is easy for you to go down and take a look at the stones that you are interested in.
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
Thanks for the responses!

"If you are based in NJ, Good Old Gold might be a good choice. Their store front is at Long Island so it is easy for you to go down and take a look at the stones that you are interested in."

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. But when I am comparing stones, what do I look for? Is it obvious when one stone looks better than another, or do I need an ideal scope or something to run the tests? Maybe I will pick out a few stones from GOG online, post their links and see what you guys think to weed out some of the bad spec''d ones, and then go and see them in person for a final decision.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/23/2009 1:14:00 PM
Author: ptn34234
Thanks for the responses!

'If you are based in NJ, Good Old Gold might be a good choice. Their store front is at Long Island so it is easy for you to go down and take a look at the stones that you are interested in.'

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. But when I am comparing stones, what do I look for? Is it obvious when one stone looks better than another, or do I need an ideal scope or something to run the tests? Maybe I will pick out a few stones from GOG online, post their links and see what you guys think to weed out some of the bad spec'd ones, and then go and see them in person for a final decision.
If you go to GOG then Jon has all the tools there that you could wish for to be able to examine the diamonds yourself, just tell him what you are looking for and he can show you diamonds which might be suitable. You would need to make an appointment with Jon so you will need to contact them in advance.

If you are looking at diamonds from other sellers, then I recommend you order an ASET scope. This tool is easy to use and it is fairly straightforward to interpret the results.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=23&ShowAdd=Y

This tutorial explains the value and usage of ASET

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

Interpretation chart for ASET - http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_reference_chart_ASET.asp

Also give each diamond a good test drive in plain daylight where possible to make sure you like how they look and react in normal wearing conditions. You can also try comparing them under a table or desk to reduce the lighting, see which continue to show good signs of life in darkened viewing conditions. But above all, compare as many well cut diamonds as you can to be sure of what appeals to you in a diamond.
 

Gregg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5
Did you have a shape in mind? I assumed round. I asked because $8,600 seems a bit much for the specs you listed, especially with online retailers. I used the specs you provided and put a $8,600 cap on the search at a diamond price comparison site, and it showed 20 loose diamonds. Some of the retailers were Adiamor and ERD. If you are still looking, maybe they're worth a look.
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
Date: 2/23/2009 1:31:04 PM
Author: Gregg

Did you have a shape in mind? I assumed round. I asked because $8,600 seems a bit much for the specs you listed, especially with online retailers. I used the specs you provided and put a $8,600 cap on the search at a diamond price comparison site, and it showed 20 loose diamonds. Some of the retailers were Adiamor and ERD. If you are still looking, maybe they''re worth a look.
Yes, I am only looking for round. I guess around $8000-$8200 would be more reasonable. I guess like anyone I just want to get the best diamond (for me) for the price. I found a bunch on price search also, however not many of the online dealers give enough information (crown and pavillion) to enter into the Cut Adviser or ideal scope images. How are you to acess cut quality from these vendors (Whiteflash, etc.)? Places like BN that give their own accessment of the cut (ideal, excellent, etc.), can you trust this accessment? If I went with an ideal from BN, would I be gaurenteed exceptional cut quality? Which vendors give enough info for cut advisor and/or ideal scope images. I know GOG does but I didn''t see any on their site that exactly fit my needs. I guess I should email GOG and let them know what I''m looking for.
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
This one''s not worlds away from your criteria.

You''ll pay a bit of a premium to get Jon''s expertise.
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
Regular guy, that one is good but I think my girl would be happier with a 1.35. I know that there is no way to tell the difference between them by eye, but for her, carat is just one of those piece of mind things she has been dead set on 1.35. Also it is a little expensive, I imagine because of the very good symmetry.

What do you guys think of this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5255/, I think it might be a good choice for me. I put the dimensions into the cut adviser and it didn't give it the highest marks but on the website it says that the AGS Light Performance is ideal. I don't care about symmetry and other aspects of the quality that are only noticeable under a scope, I only care about the factors that will affect the diamonds appearance to the naked eye. Therefore I guess it doesn't matter that the symmetry rated a 1 and the polish rated a 2, these will probably have no effect on the eye appearance of the diamond, right? Also I'm sure the 0.01 on brightness is basically a zero right? Do you think that the feathers on the table would be considered large and visible by eye?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Date: 2/23/2009 10:21:31 PM
Author: ptn34234
What do you guys think of this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5255/, I think it might be a good choice for me. I put the dimensions into the cut adviser and it didn''t give it the highest marks but on the website it says that the AGS Light Performance is ideal. I don''t care about symmetry and other aspects of the quality that are only noticeable under a scope, I only care about the factors that will affect the diamonds appearance to the naked eye. Therefore I guess it doesn''t matter that the symmetry rated a 1 and the polish rated a 2, these will probably have no effect on the eye appearance of the diamond, right? Also I''m sure the 0.01 on brightness is basically a zero right? Do you think that the feathers on the table would be considered large and visible by eye?
This one is in the 2-2.5 range, performance will depend on other factors such as optical symm of the facets. That said, it has a very large LGF resulting in the thin arrows, you may or may not like it. I think it should be one that you should include in your viewing.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/23/2009 10:21:31 PM
Author: ptn34234
Regular guy, that one is good but I think my girl would be happier with a 1.35. I know that there is no way to tell the difference between them by eye, but for her, carat is just one of those piece of mind things she has been dead set on 1.35. Also it is a little expensive, I imagine because of the very good symmetry.

What do you guys think of this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5255/, I think it might be a good choice for me. I put the dimensions into the cut adviser and it didn''t give it the highest marks but on the website it says that the AGS Light Performance is ideal. I don''t care about symmetry and other aspects of the quality that are only noticeable under a scope, I only care about the factors that will affect the diamonds appearance to the naked eye. Therefore I guess it doesn''t matter that the symmetry rated a 1 and the polish rated a 2, these will probably have no effect on the eye appearance of the diamond, right? Also I''m sure the 0.01 on brightness is basically a zero right? Do you think that the feathers on the table would be considered large and visible by eye?
This one is a '' fine make'' of cut, not cut to ultra tight standards but it could be an attractive diamond in person, see what you think if you meet Jon if this style and character appeals to you.
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
Well I am going to GOG next week to look at some stones. In particular I am looking at

Diamond 1 - But someone had previously posted that the optics of this stone are not perfect so I will have to judge side by side and see if I can tell a difference between the other two higher quality cut stones.

Diamond 2 - I really like that this one is 1.41 ct but I am a little worried about the I color and the SI2. Where do most people stand on I color's affect on the beauty of a set stone? Also, where do most people stand on SI2? I know some SI2's aren't eye clear, I guess I will have to check myself, but should I feel confident that an SI2 can look beautiful to the naked eye? What do you think about the microscope images of the inclusions, do they look bad?

Diamond 3 - This diamond looks great except it is only 1.32 and my girl has be dieing for a 1.35 and above. I know I probably won't be able to tell a difference between the 1.32 and the 1.37 I am viewing, although in one of the videos on GOG I could definitely tell the difference in size between a 1.28 and a 1.35, so I will have to see. Also again, do you think the J color will affect the set beauty? Also I think VS1 may be unneccasary given my "eye clean is good enough" criteria.

Alright, thanks in advance guys for your responses. I am going up to see the stones on the 13th. Wish me luck.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/4/2009 2:54:59 PM
Author: ptn34234
Well I am going to GOG next week to look at some stones. In particular I am looking at

Diamond 1 - But someone had previously posted that the optics of this stone are not perfect so I will have to judge side by side and see if I can tell a difference between the other two higher quality cut stones.

Diamond 2 - I really like that this one is 1.41 ct but I am a little worried about the I color and the SI2. Where do most people stand on I color''s affect on the beauty of a set stone? Also, where do most people stand on SI2? I know some SI2''s aren''t eye clear, I guess I will have to check myself, but should I feel confident that an SI2 can look beautiful to the naked eye? What do you think about the microscope images of the inclusions, do they look bad? I colour and SI2 if eyeclean can be an excellent choice to maximise bang for the buck, so as you will be seeing the diamonds in person you are in an excellent position to see how this combo looks. As long as the diamond is well cut which it will be then it could definitely be a contender.

Diamond 3 - This diamond looks great except it is only 1.32 and my girl has be dieing for a 1.35 and above. I know I probably won''t be able to tell a difference between the 1.32 and the 1.37 I am viewing, although in one of the videos on GOG I could definitely tell the difference in size between a 1.28 and a 1.35, so I will have to see. Also again, do you think the J color will affect the set beauty? Also I think VS1 may be unneccasary given my ''eye clean is good enough'' criteria. J colour can also be a great choice in order to get extra size, so definitely worth consideration.

Alright, thanks in advance guys for your responses. I am going up to see the stones on the 13th. Wish me luck.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on!
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Just remember, when you are looking at them for color, look at them seperately. It doesn't matter if you can see the difference when holding two next to each other, it's what each one looks like by itself (shoot for natural daylight). Because that's the way it will be set.


And have fun!
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
I also had them ship in Blue Nile Diamond 1 which looks good but should I be worried about the 61% table? Lorelei recommended that I don''t go above 57%. Of course I am going to be able to view the ASET and IS views of the stone, so as long as they look great, should I not worry about the actual percent? How does this stone look in general, well priced?

I had also wanted them to ship in Blue Nile Stone 2 which is weird because it seems to have very comparable specs but is $600 less. What could explain such a price difference.

Thanks so much for the input. This Friday is going to be the big day.
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
Alright, I got back from my visit to Good Old Gold today and was pretty happy with the experience. As this will be the biggest purchase I have ever made in my life, I want to be certain that I am making the best choice, therefore I still have more questions for you guys. The diamond I had shipped in that I had found on Blue Nile was the most expensive and turned out to have the worst light return of the four (at least per the IS images). So now I am deciding between these two diamonds 1.37 carat Daimond 1 or 1.42 Diamond 2. First let me say that I really couldn''t tell a difference between them at all. I could very faintly see a difference in the color between the G and the I, and under the scope (around 20X) I could easily see the inclusions, but with a loupe (10X) I couldn''t really see the inclusions even in the I2, and certainly not to the eye. Maybe if I looked longer I could, but I guess that is beside the point. John said it was eye clean to him also and then he asked his daughter, whom he said can always pick out imperfections by eye, and she couldn''t at first but after louping it and identifying them she could faintly recognize them.

I had left the store pretty certain that I liked the 1.37 carat (diamond 1) the best, I felt that it had a little more fire than the 1.42 and the color and clarity were better under the scope although both were completely eye clean to me. Optically both had AGS 0 rating for light return and both looked about equally brilliant under diffuse lighting. However as I was on the road, I began thinking:
-Even though I couldn''t really notice a difference by eye, the 1.37 has an AGS 2 (very good) polish rating and I have read that very good polish can significantly decrease luster. Should this be an issue for me even though I didn''t notice it at the store? I have also read that polish only really matters for VVS and better clarities. What do you guys think?
-Also, the 1.37 had a noticeably smaller crown height 13.8% than the 1.42 (diamond 2) which was 14.3%. I personally am not a diamond connoisseur, but to someone who was, is a shallower crown not as aesthetically pleasing when viewed from the side? I know that the proportions are important for determining light return and optical properties, however both stones have about the same optical response (AGS 0 light return). The only difference I am concerned with is whether the view from will not looki proper. Is this a valid concern or am I being ridiculous?

The 1.37 is about 7500 with wire transfer. I assume this is a pretty good price for the specs?

Thank you guys so much. I will be ordering it Monday and will let you know which I decide on.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/13/2009 10:26:15 PM
Author: ptn34234
Alright, I got back from my visit to Good Old Gold today and was pretty happy with the experience. As this will be the biggest purchase I have ever made in my life, I want to be certain that I am making the best choice, therefore I still have more questions for you guys. The diamond I had shipped in that I had found on Blue Nile was the most expensive and turned out to have the worst light return of the four (at least per the IS images). So now I am deciding between these two diamonds 1.37 carat Daimond 1 or 1.42 Diamond 2. First let me say that I really couldn't tell a difference between them at all. I could very faintly see a difference in the color between the G and the I, and under the scope (around 20X) I could easily see the inclusions, but with a loupe (10X) I couldn't really see the inclusions even in the I2, and certainly not to the eye. Maybe if I looked longer I could, but I guess that is beside the point. John said it was eye clean to him also and then he asked his daughter, whom he said can always pick out imperfections by eye, and she couldn't at first but after louping it and identifying them she could faintly recognize them.

I had left the store pretty certain that I liked the 1.37 carat (diamond 1) the best, I felt that it had a little more fire than the 1.42 and the color and clarity were better under the scope although both were completely eye clean to me. Optically both had AGS 0 rating for light return and both looked about equally brilliant under diffuse lighting. However as I was on the road, I began thinking:
-Even though I couldn't really notice a difference by eye, the 1.37 has an AGS 2 (very good) polish rating and I have read that very good polish can significantly decrease luster. Should this be an issue for me even though I didn't notice it at the store? I have also read that polish only really matters for VVS and better clarities. What do you guys think?
-Also, the 1.37 had a noticeably smaller crown height 13.8% than the 1.42 (diamond 2) which was 14.3%. I personally am not a diamond connoisseur, but to someone who was, is a shallower crown not as aesthetically pleasing when viewed from the side? I know that the proportions are important for determining light return and optical properties, however both stones have about the same optical response (AGS 0 light return). The only difference I am concerned with is whether the view from will not looki proper. Is this a valid concern or am I being ridiculous?

The 1.37 is about 7500 with wire transfer. I assume this is a pretty good price for the specs?

Thank you guys so much. I will be ordering it Monday and will let you know which I decide on.
No worries with the very good polish decreasing lustre, it is said good and above look the same to the naked untrained eye regardless of the clarity grade also. The crown height variance you would not be able to tell. Have a good think about it, if you preferred the 1.37 and you were able to compare both in person which is a huge advantage then you are in an excellent position to get the best diamond for your needs!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Date: 3/13/2009 10:26:15 PM
Author: ptn34234
Alright, I got back from my visit to Good Old Gold today and was pretty happy with the experience. As this will be the biggest purchase I have ever made in my life, I want to be certain that I am making the best choice, therefore I still have more questions for you guys. The diamond I had shipped in that I had found on Blue Nile was the most expensive and turned out to have the worst light return of the four (at least per the IS images). So now I am deciding between these two diamonds 1.37 carat Daimond 1 or 1.42 Diamond 2. First let me say that I really couldn''t tell a difference between them at all. I could very faintly see a difference in the color between the G and the I, and under the scope (around 20X) I could easily see the inclusions, but with a loupe (10X) I couldn''t really see the inclusions even in the I2, and certainly not to the eye. Maybe if I looked longer I could, but I guess that is beside the point. John said it was eye clean to him also and then he asked his daughter, whom he said can always pick out imperfections by eye, and she couldn''t at first but after louping it and identifying them she could faintly recognize them.

I had left the store pretty certain that I liked the 1.37 carat (diamond 1) the best, I felt that it had a little more fire than the 1.42 and the color and clarity were better under the scope although both were completely eye clean to me. Optically both had AGS 0 rating for light return and both looked about equally brilliant under diffuse lighting. However as I was on the road, I began thinking:
-Even though I couldn''t really notice a difference by eye, the 1.37 has an AGS 2 (very good) polish rating and I have read that very good polish can significantly decrease luster. Should this be an issue for me even though I didn''t notice it at the store? I have also read that polish only really matters for VVS and better clarities. What do you guys think?
-Also, the 1.37 had a noticeably smaller crown height 13.8% than the 1.42 (diamond 2) which was 14.3%. I personally am not a diamond connoisseur, but to someone who was, is a shallower crown not as aesthetically pleasing when viewed from the side? I know that the proportions are important for determining light return and optical properties, however both stones have about the same optical response (AGS 0 light return). The only difference I am concerned with is whether the view from will not looki proper. Is this a valid concern or am I being ridiculous?

The 1.37 is about 7500 with wire transfer. I assume this is a pretty good price for the specs?

Thank you guys so much. I will be ordering it Monday and will let you know which I decide on.
From the numbers, I would have thought the 1.42c would have perform better in the fire department.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/14/2009 7:37:46 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 3/13/2009 10:26:15 PM
Author: ptn34234
Alright, I got back from my visit to Good Old Gold today and was pretty happy with the experience. As this will be the biggest purchase I have ever made in my life, I want to be certain that I am making the best choice, therefore I still have more questions for you guys. The diamond I had shipped in that I had found on Blue Nile was the most expensive and turned out to have the worst light return of the four (at least per the IS images). So now I am deciding between these two diamonds 1.37 carat Daimond 1 or 1.42 Diamond 2. First let me say that I really couldn''t tell a difference between them at all. I could very faintly see a difference in the color between the G and the I, and under the scope (around 20X) I could easily see the inclusions, but with a loupe (10X) I couldn''t really see the inclusions even in the I2, and certainly not to the eye. Maybe if I looked longer I could, but I guess that is beside the point. John said it was eye clean to him also and then he asked his daughter, whom he said can always pick out imperfections by eye, and she couldn''t at first but after louping it and identifying them she could faintly recognize them.

I had left the store pretty certain that I liked the 1.37 carat (diamond 1) the best, I felt that it had a little more fire than the 1.42 and the color and clarity were better under the scope although both were completely eye clean to me. Optically both had AGS 0 rating for light return and both looked about equally brilliant under diffuse lighting. However as I was on the road, I began thinking:
-Even though I couldn''t really notice a difference by eye, the 1.37 has an AGS 2 (very good) polish rating and I have read that very good polish can significantly decrease luster. Should this be an issue for me even though I didn''t notice it at the store? I have also read that polish only really matters for VVS and better clarities. What do you guys think?
-Also, the 1.37 had a noticeably smaller crown height 13.8% than the 1.42 (diamond 2) which was 14.3%. I personally am not a diamond connoisseur, but to someone who was, is a shallower crown not as aesthetically pleasing when viewed from the side? I know that the proportions are important for determining light return and optical properties, however both stones have about the same optical response (AGS 0 light return). The only difference I am concerned with is whether the view from will not looki proper. Is this a valid concern or am I being ridiculous?

The 1.37 is about 7500 with wire transfer. I assume this is a pretty good price for the specs?

Thank you guys so much. I will be ordering it Monday and will let you know which I decide on.
From the numbers, I would have thought the 1.42c would have perform better in the fire department.
It just goes to show numbers aren''t any guarantee, especially with small variations, the proof is in the eye of the viewer and seeing and comparing the diamonds in person.
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
"From the numbers, I would have thought the 1.42c would have perform better in the fire department."

I don''t know. I may be misrepresnting the termonology. Under spot lighting, which John told me emphasizes fire, I preferred the 1.37. Strictly speaking, fire is the degree of dispersion (spread in colors) and the 1.42 may have spread the colors more. However, I might have been percieving a combination of fire with contrast which makes generally made the 1.37 appear better to me in spot lighting. However, once again, the difference was almost imperceptible to me.

I decided to go with the 1.37 and I think I am pretty happy with my purchase. The next question is appraisel. The diamond has both GIA and AGS certs, IS and ASET images, and microscopic images of the defects. I also tend to trust John''s in house colorimeter for verifying color. I have acess to a scientific lab I can take my own microscope images and wiegh it to the hundredth of a milligram. Therefore shouldn''t appraisal be pretty easy? I have to figure out where to take it. I will read some of the articles on appraisel.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/14/2009 3:15:08 PM
Author: ptn34234
'From the numbers, I would have thought the 1.42c would have perform better in the fire department.'

I don't know. I may be misrepresnting the termonology. Under spot lighting, which John told me emphasizes fire, I preferred the 1.37. Strictly speaking, fire is the degree of dispersion (spread in colors) and the 1.42 may have spread the colors more. However, I might have been percieving a combination of fire with contrast which makes generally made the 1.37 appear better to me in spot lighting. However, once again, the difference was almost imperceptible to me.

I decided to go with the 1.37 and I think I am pretty happy with my purchase. The next question is appraisel. The diamond has both GIA and AGS certs, IS and ASET images, and microscopic images of the defects. I also tend to trust John's in house colorimeter for verifying color. I have acess to a scientific lab I can take my own microscope images and wiegh it to the hundredth of a milligram. Therefore shouldn't appraisal be pretty easy? I have to figure out where to take it. I will read some of the articles on appraisel.
The numbers of each are very similar and no way to predict subtle nuances without actually comparing the diamonds which you have done, numbers will only give you so much information. From comparing the proportions of each I would think they would be pretty similar in the fire department, but this is only speculation as thats all we consumers without actual experience with diamonds and seeing the rocks in person can do.

Also you might be aware of this but looking at the info on each diamond, it appears the 1.37 doesn't come with a lifetime upgrade policy whereas the other diamond does. I just wanted to bring this up before you pull the trigger in case an upgrade might ever be a consideration.

Both diamonds have GIA reports, not AGS also. As you are in the NY area there are a few appraisers you could use if you check out this tool.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

A good article on the appraisal process - https://www.pricescope.com/appraiser.asp

And congrats on your purchase!!
 

ptn34234

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
13
Well I just got back from the appraiser and everything checked out fine. He said it was a really nice looking diamond which performed very well even in his less than optimal lighting. The SI1 was very conservative; he said he wouldn’t have been surprised if it was a VS2, and certainly eye clean to even the best eyes. He said he would have expected me to have paid between low 7’s and low 9’s. Seeing as I paid $7500, I feel very good. I was shocked how much the appraisal cost, $125. I mean, I have personal access to a really nice microscope and could have verified the inclusion pattern against the GIA cert myself, but then again it is nice having someone very experienced and unbiased to confirm that the stone looked up to par. I also asked about the polish and he said that the good polish should not affect the appearance to the naked eye. Also, I looked on the GIA website at their cut advisor which shows what cut grade a diamond could get based on its dimensions and my diamond could have been an excellent cut grade (based on dimensions) but was precluded due to its good polish grade. Therefore it could very well look like an excellent cut diamond to the naked eye but at a reduced price. The appraiser was also shocked that the dealer that I bought it from had ideal scope and ASET images. I am really impressed with my experience with Good Old Gold and would definitely recommend it to my friends. Thank you everyone who helped me out, I appreciate your advice, you really made the process a lot less scary.
 
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