Need advice on buying diamond and getting cert later

[tenniz23]

Hi, I'm new to the world of diamonds and have recently started doing research to get educated on the subject. I have a question about buying a diamond without a certificate and getting it certified later. I'm looking for an engagement ring and am planning to pop the question in slightly less than 2 weeks. I know it's a very aggressive timeline, but I would really like to be able to keep the date. I've found a local jeweler that is very highly regarded on Yelp and paid him a visit today. Even though I just dropped in without an appointment, which is usually required for them since they don't operate a storefront, he was very willing to help me out. I explained to him what I'm looking for (1.7ct princess cut, at least SI1, at least I) and he currently only has one stone in is possession that fits the bill: 1.75ct princess cut, VS2, I. However, this stone has not been sent in for certification. He can send it in for GIA certification, but it will take 3-4 weeks to get it back, which wouldn't work out for my timeline. He said that because he does not have a certificate in hand, he will sell me the diamond at the price of a J, which comes to about $8.6k. He will also set the ring (a simple solitaire setting on platinum that he would be custom making), send it in for an appraisal by an independent party that is a GIA Graduate, and sell the finished ring to me for $10k + tax. I can then propose with the ring and bring it back to him to be removed from the ring and sent to GIA for certification (at no charge). He will honor the original price regardless of whether the report comes back with a higher rating for any of the specs. So my concerns are mainly the following:
1) I'm a bit apprehensive about buying the diamond without any certification or details that would be shown on a grading report. I looked at the stone through a loupe. It looked good to me, but I'm very much an amateur so I don't put a lot of weight in my own judgement just yet. However, from talking to him, he seems like an honest person who values his reputation and his customers. The rave reviews he has on Yelp seems to suggest that as well (5 stars with 70+ reviews). In terms of the demographics that the reviews come from, he is located in downtown of a major city next to DeBeers and Shreve & Co., so I assume that he caters to a fair share of higher-end clients.
2) He mentioned that he can have it appraised by an independent GG appraiser and it would be included in the total cost of the ring. I'm not really sure if this is common in the business or if I should insist on hiring my own appraiser.
3) What I'm thinking of is to get the diamond and ring with the appraisal he orders, propose with the ring, take it back for him to send it to GIA for certification, and finally get it appraised by an appraiser of my choosing after it's all said and done. If the GIA certification or my appraiser finds anything significant, I would pretty much be relying on his word to rectify any issues.

So what are your thoughts on what I should do? Am I crazy for considering this?

 

[sakari_8]

Hi, all the answers I have given below:

Hi, I'm new to the world of diamonds and have recently started doing research to get educated on the subject. I have a question about buying a diamond without a certificate and getting it certified later. I'm looking for an engagement ring and am planning to pop the question in slightly less than 2 weeks. I know it's a very aggressive timeline, but I would really like to be able to keep the date. I've found a local jeweler that is very highly regarded on Yelp and paid him a visit today. Even though I just dropped in without an appointment, which is usually required for them since they don't operate a storefront, he was very willing to help me out. I explained to him what I'm looking for (1.7ct princess cut, at least SI1, at least I) and he currently only has one stone in is possession that fits the bill: 1.75ct princess cut, VS2, I. However, this stone has not been sent in for certification. He can send it in for GIA certification, but it will take 3-4 weeks to get it back, which wouldn't work out for my timeline. He said that because he does not have a certificate in hand, he will sell me the diamond at the price of a J,

GIA can issue you the certificate within 24 hours also, provided you pay them extra for the service, have you spoke to the sales person about it? besides grading of diamond is nothing but the opinion, he says it is I color or worst J color but nothing for sure, due respect to the company I would not be comfortable, I would rather buy the stones online where prices are low and product is guaranteed with return policy.

which comes to about $8.6k.
He will also set the ring (a simple solitaire setting on platinum that he would be custom making), send it in for an appraisal by an independent party that is a GIA Graduate, and sell the finished ring to me for $10k + tax. I can then propose with the ring and bring it back to him to be removed from the ring and sent to GIA for certification (at no charge). He will honor the original price regardless of whether the report comes back with a higher rating for any of the specs. So my concerns are mainly the following:

1) I'm a bit apprehensive about buying the diamond without any certification or details that would be shown on a grading report. I looked at the stone through a loupe. It looked good to me, but I'm very much an amateur so I don't put a lot of weight in my own judgement just yet. However, from talking to him, he seems like an honest person who values his reputation and his customers. The rave reviews he has on Yelp seems to suggest that as well (5 stars with 70+ reviews). In terms of the demographics that the reviews come from, he is located in downtown of a major city next to DeBeers and Shreve & Co., so I assume that he caters to a fair share of higher-end clients.

I think I agree with you that store would be trusted however you do not really have more options to choose from, I would encourage you to go through the online stores, besides there are online stores providing you appraisal free with the stones.


2) He mentioned that he can have it appraised by an independent GG appraiser and it would be included in the total cost of the ring.
I'm not really sure if this is common in the business or if I should insist on hiring my own appraiser.

It is common in the business most of the jewelry stores are providing value added service by providing the appraisal certificate.

3) What I'm thinking of is to get the diamond and ring with the appraisal he orders, propose with the ring, take it back for him to send
it to GIA for certification, and finally get it appraised by an appraiser of my choosing after it's all said and done. If the GIA certification
or my appraiser finds anything significant, I would pretty much be relying on his word to rectify any issues.

So what are your thoughts on what I should do? Am I crazy for considering this?

You mentioned Princess cut diamond I color and VS2 Clarity, here is the option I see in the online store

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-3590948-1.70-carat-Princess-diamond-J-color-VS1-clarity.aspx?cid=DiamPS&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
And the solitiare settings you can choose from the below link:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Design-Own-Ring.aspx

This company provide you free appraisal as well, which is neat, there are more companies like James Allen, GOG, Bluenile I am sure
they have good stuff, I would suggest to buy from online store stone which is already certified.

 

[denverappraiser]

Dealer supplied 'free' appraisals are routinely worth less than they cost. That said, the jeweler here sounds he's trying to be upfront and reasonable and appraisals are a fairly common sales tool so I don't really mean to slam them especially hard for it. Nearly everybody in the US is GIA trained but all GIA trained graders are not the same.


GIA takes way more than 3-4 weeks at the moment. My last stone back from them (last week) was closer to 6. Don't forget shipping time. Taking back the ring for 6 weeks after the engagement presentation is likely to annoy your beloved. Getting this sort of thing done in advance is worth some trouble and I second the suggestion of paying GIA their rush charges and using FedEx or another overnight service. Even then 2 weeks is pushing your luck but it's probably possible. If you're going to do this, start soon, without losing another day.

By the way, you mentioned that the price will be the same even if the grade goes up. What happens if it goes down?

 

[BhavinJ]

Neil, I really loved your comments. I totally agree with what you say.

Have heard about few online stores who do get the appraisals done well in advance without even sending the actual product for the review.

Its nice to have experts around who can guide the consumers in the right direction.

 

[GoSounders]

If you can get a robust return policy in writing that covers the time it takes to do everything (setting, proposing, certing, re-setting), then I'd go for it if you love the stone.

 

[msop04]

Dealer supplied 'free' appraisals are routinely worth less than they cost. That said, the jeweler here sounds he's trying to be upfront and reasonable and appraisals are a fairly common sales tool so I don't really mean to slam them especially hard for it. Nearly everybody in the US is GIA trained but all GIA trained graders are not the same.


GIA takes way more than 3-4 weeks at the moment. My last stone back from them (last week) was closer to 6. Don't forget shipping time. Taking back the ring for 6 weeks after the engagement presentation is likely to annoy your beloved. Getting this sort of thing done in advance is worth some trouble and I second the suggestion of paying GIA their rush charges and using FedEx or another overnight service. Even then 2 weeks is pushing your luck but it's probably possible. If you're going to do this, start soon, without losing another day. Another advantage is the large numbers of stones to chose from and compare.

By the way, you mentioned that the price will be the same even if the grade goes up. What happens if it goes down?

+1

I would strongly discourage you from buying this stone for the reasons bolded above. I am not insinuating that your jeweler is anything but honest and trustworthy. However, it is much too easy (and convenient) to order through a trusted online vendor who has certified stones, such as JA, WF, IDJ, or GOG. You can even look on JA website and see the actual stone from all angles to show if it is the desired color/clarity you seek, and even have a trained eye pull it and give their trained opinion between up to 3 stones at a time. Then you will have the peace of mind of knowing it's a legit, GIA/AGS certified stone and can proceed without worry. In the event that you receive the diamond and do not like it for whatever reason, you can always return and see another one with no hassles.

Regarding proposing with a stone then sending it off to have it certified... Don't. If I was the girl you were proposing to and this scenario took place, I would be more than a little peeved because: 1) I wouldn't be able to show off my ering and 2) I would wonder why you would propose with a stone having no cert/unknown specifications -- only to send it back in hopes that it "passes inspection." I would wonder why you didn't just wait a little longer, do some homework, and make sure the stone meets the criteria you are looking for (i.e. GIA/AGS cert) before proposing. (this is only my opinion and my personal feelings... just putting it out there from a female's POV)

KWIM?

 

[tenniz23]

Thanks everyone for your input. It was very helpful and I've decided not to buy the diamond without first getting the certificate. denverappraiser and msop04 really drove the point home that my girlfriend would not be pleased with having to give up her ring for about month to get it certified. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that she is happy. I just got too caught up with the fact that this jeweler was offering the potential for a bargain, was able to keep my schedule, and was within my budget.

I'll definitely take the advice to pursue the online option. I've already taken a quick look at B2CJewels, Whiteflash, Good Old Good, and NiceIce (couldn't figure out how to search for diamonds on NiceIce). So far, only B2CJewels looks like it has a diamond in my budget. I'll also take a look at James Allen today. Is there a complete list of trusted online retailers that Pricescopers have had a lot of experience with? I see acronyms mentioned here and there, and I think I was able to figure some of them out, but I'm still clueless about the others (e.g. IDJ).