Need advice on balancing $ with CUT for stud earings

[squarediamondlove]

Ok I hope this is not going to be a loaded question but...My mother had asked me to pick out a great looking pair of round diamond stud earrings between 0.8 – 1.1ct total weight about F-G color Si1-Si2 clarity. She knew I had more knowlege about cuts so she asked me to look for her. She is about your average consumer when it comes to knowledge of diamonds. My question is about the value of CUT for stud earings (I’m pretty set on color and clarity).

I know which one I would pick if I was picking out the earrings for myself and I can probably guess which ones all of you on PS would pick for yourselves: #2! However, everyone here on PS is clearly a cut junky.

I need to know form an objective point of view whether its worth for her to spend the extra $ on smaller but better cut round stud earrings? My concern is that earrings get dirty quickly and if they are not cleaned everyday they tend to look a bit hazy. At that point will the H&A still shine through? Will cut make a big difference ON THE EAR? And is it worth the extra $600-700 for not even equal weight earrings, but earrings that are noticeably smaller?

I am deciding between two sets of diamonds below:

Round #1
DOES NOT come with a certificate (but I’m good with grading color and clarity and its definitely an F)
Weight: 1.03ct total (about .51 each)
Color: F color
Clarity: Si1/Si2
Cut: My idealscope does show the formation of thin arrows on at least one of the diamonds and enough redness all around. (he is supposed to get me another one to match b/c the other paired stone was cut too deep for my taste). The table looks about 55-58, definitely less than 60. I would rate it as a “well cut” stone, somewhere between average cut and excellent/ideal cut.
PRICE = $1,500 (including tax and setting)

Round #2 (From GOG)
GIA Certificate
Weight: 0.81ct total (one is .4 the other is .41)
Color: F color
Clarity: Si1
Cut: Triple Ideal H&A - Saw it through a light scope and H&A viewer and its beautifully cut and I believe he said that it rates “very high” on all three elements in a Brilliantscope. Its very fiery (which I prefer)
PRICE = 2,143 (including tax and setting)

The carat size difference is clearly noticeable.

If anyone owns a pair of H&A earrings, what do you guys think on the matter? Or if you decided to opt out of getting H&A, why?
Also, if perhaps I can get some opinion form those that have H&A e-ring - how do they look when your H&A get some fingerprints on it and a bit of oil, do they still hold their beauty over non ideal cut but decently cut diamonds?

---Thanks everyone!

 

[coda72]

My husband bought me 0.8 carat Ready Set Go earrings from Whiteflash, and I like them a lot. They are very sparkly, and although they are I colored the color doesn''t show on my ear. I have held them next to my G colored stone, and there''s a definite difference in color, but I don''t think anyone''s looking that closely at my ear. So, I probably wouldn''t bother gettting F or G color for earrings. If you want to save your mother money, I would pick out some ideal cut H or I or maybe even J colored earrings. I like the ideal cut because they are super sparkly compared to most earrings. I have seen many diamond earrings that just look like white blobs on people''s ears. They don''t have any sparkle whatsoever. That''s why I would get the ideal cut ones. Also, I don''t know how often your mother cleans her jewelry, but I clean my earrings after every time I wear them, so they continue to look great. But then again, I think everyone on this board cleans their jewelry regularly, so I don''t know if anyone can tell you how their super ideal diamonds look after getting dirty!

 

[valeria101]

Better cut diamonds stand grime better - and the slightly shallower ones (i.e. with pavilion angles well less than 41 degrees) do that even better.

Among the 'Newsletters' at IdealScope come one goes into some detail about this. Deep cut diamonds definitely get darker worse when not perfectly clean (or sunk in a bezel).

But this is a story about ideal proportions and H&A is a slightly different job - about symmetry.

I am not ready to swear that slightly miss aligned hearts and arrows will transform diamonds with idea proportions into road-kill junk.

It sounds like though between the cut quality of the two pairs there is quite some distance and I wonder if something in between can't be found.

My 2c


Edited to add
[freakin'n computer logging off!]

I looked up some D-F/SI1/(EGL) diamonds .45-.49cts, 58-61depth, 54-58table. near 5mm and under $850.... and got a few listed.

W/0 copies of lab reports though. Safe proportions (i.e. not on a borderline HCA grade, because those % are not as precise) would have made me list any such thing with a few exclamation marks on top!

To me, the couple hundred difference between such a thing and the $1500 ungraded pair in the shop is just not worth it.

There is some bias though, because I can't see those. If I could, perhaps I would get satisfied about their quality like you did - say, at least colorless/low near colorless look recognizable without better grading conditions than a white business card. If I can't see inclusions, that is 'VS' for me... After so much playing DiamCalc, some IS patterns hold meaning even if not arrows, and would not scrape them. But all this... doesn't have an equivalent online.

My 2c

 

[squarediamondlove]

Thank you guys for replying,

coda72, My mother is definately set on F color earings. The thing is that if you are not dealing with ideal cut rounds color makes more of a difference. I went to the diamond district with her in NYC and she already saw a yellowy tint in H color earings (GIA rated) - they weren''t even loose and she didn''t hold them side by side to a more colorless stone for comparison. So she became very set on F and maybe G if the cut is great enough. GOG gave me some G stones to look at but price wise the F''s were just a better deal b/c the stones came form different dealers and there was more $$ savings form the F stone.

Also you have to realize that my mother has a different mentality than here on PS when it comes to color. I believe in our culture colors getting into the I-J range are even more taboo and hold little value. If I get an I or a J she will not like the earings and get very offended.

I hope we can move beyond discussing color (since I am firm on that decision) and rather focus on the cut of the stone.

 

[coda72]

I understand about the color. I have a G colored stone for a pendant, and my earrings are I colored. I can see a definite difference in color between them. But I just thought for earrings,color wasn''t as critical, at least not for me. No one but my husband will be close enough to me to see the color in my earrings. To me it seems then that your mother values color over cut, and I would choose accordingly if I were you. #1 sounds like the better option for her.

 

[squarediamondlove]

Date: 2/10/2006 6:53:01 AM
Author: valeria101
But this is a story about ideal proportions and H&A is a slightly different job - about symmetry.


I am not ready to swear that slightly miss aligned hearts and arrows will transform diamonds with idea proportions into road-kill junk.

After so much playing DiamCalc, some IS patterns hold meaning even if not arrows, and would not scrape them. But all this... doesn''t have an equivalent online.

valeria10,

Can you clarify the points above a bit further I am a little unsure about it. Are you saying that diamonds that have some formation of arrows (and perhaps hearts) but definately miss the mark as H&A''s may not indicate that they are a better cut than a stoen that has no arrows at all but a good amount of red on the IS. Or that the miss alighed H&A may be substantially inferior performance form ideal cut H&A?

That really interesting that deeper rounds don''t do as well with getting dirty - can you link me to that article?

Another problem is that my mother refuses to order online so that is not an option either.

I know its didficult for you guys to answer my question b/c you do not have the two stones in front of you. The problem is also that, I myself can''t really compair the brillinace and sparkle of the two stone in fornt of me since they come from different stores. The cuts that the dealer ordered for me are not bad by any means - definately superior to your average looking round. GOG showed me a cut comparison (difference in sparkle and appearance) between their ideal H&A and a typicall looking diamond. However, the diamond they comparied it to was clearly worst than the diamonds I looked at when I went to the dealer so I wonder if the difference would be as noticable.

 

[Mara]

I used to have a set of G VS 1ctw earrings that were not well cut at all. They looked dull, but somewhat sparkly. Mind you this was before I really know soo much about earrings so I thought well I guess that is how they are supposed to look. FF to learning something about diamonds and realizing my earrings were not all that and a bag of chips.

I got a pair of I SI .76ctw ACA H&A earrings that were obviously cut great. They looked basically the same size on my ear to the casual observer as the larger pair of earrings because of the cut (the first pair of earrings had a higher depth) AND these things are like firecrackers.

Do you have to wear H&A on the ears? No but there are various degrees of 'well cut' stones and I would keep the quality of the cut very high for even earrings AND (I know you don't want to hear this but it's true) drop the color a bit because you cannot tell color on the ears. My G stones looked the SAME as my I stones on the ears completely. Now the I stones off the ear and on a white paper maybe you could see some color but on the ear it's the same and the sparkles are so blinding.

Now I know you said your Mom doesn't want to go below F, so can you talk her into G? Something to save a bit of money and ensure you can get a stellar cut?

I would even drop carat weight if you have to in order to keep the cut exceptional. Again it doesn't have to be H&A but they have to be well-cut or else you will basically be buying her non-sparklers like my old earrings and to me I'd rather have no earrings than ones that don't sparkle!

If they are both GOG have him take pictures of each of the stones side by side, that may help you make a decision. Also if you can pos the IS images. If the first one has lots of red and relatively little white chances are it would be fine as a super sparkler even if it's not superideal.

 

[squarediamondlove]

Guys, I hope this helps....(BTW these are all pics taken form GOG and are not pics of the actual stones I am talking about)

Ok here is the actual stone which GOG compaired the H&A to and yes I could see the difference in the sparkle

However, the stones that I was looking at were better cut than the one up top, so I had a hard time comparing. To give you some idea of the two stones, they looked somewhat like this.

The one below is the deeper one that did not have the formation of arrows. The stone with the formation of arrows has arrows a bit thicker than the ones up top, but I'm not sure that it has as much hot spots inbetween the arrows.

 

[Mara]

That first one and last one are both icky IMO, the last one will have a big dead ring and the first one has entirely dead edges!

The middle one is interesting from a light return perspective. For me the formation of arrows are not as important in earrings as light return would be....

 

[squarediamondlove]

Mara thats the stone I asked the dealer to replace b/c it was cut a bit deep and had a dark look at the table. BTW this last stone actually scored "High" for all three on the Brilliantscope, though it doesn''t look as appealing to the eye. Though I don''t think the stone I was looking had nearly as much black at the table but just faint red/pink b/c of it was deep.

He told me that the cuts he got was the best he can get short of going to H&A. When I went to the diamond district in NYC the IS images of what the sales people had labeled as "ideal cuts" b/c they fit roughly within the proper specs were no better than the IS images of what he gave me.

I do however feel that the H&A''s I looked at were definately more fiery than the other diamonds, but then again it was also dimmer at GOG. I would hands down choose the GOG, howevever for my mom, would the larger size and the lower price trump the cut? If they were slightly dirty with fingerprints would the H&A still shine through better?

Also another problem is that even if I go down to H color and up my carat weight to .5each (1ct-1.1ct total) for H&A, I will still be about $3000, b/c its a critical jump for the industry and the pice jumps.Here is an example It will be about $1,000 more. Now you will be looking at paying double for H&A cut with a lower color grade.

 

[Mara]

Are you set on shopping with GOG? Check out what other vendors have too. Sometimes it's more about inventory or what they can find.

I have seen some great IS images of non H&A stones that don't carry that markup, personally I don't love any of those IS's except for the middle but sounds like in person it didn't look that great. Because I am such a stickler on cut I would only buy top notch cut stones now and lower the ctw or color/clarity etc. I just refuse to have ugly studs again!

Oh and re: the clean vs dirty, my earrings dirty still look hands down better than my old ones. I really do feel that until you have seen the differences that cut can make even on the ears (again not talking like super ideal H&A but just exceptionally cut stones with good light return) then you won't really understand...but I have lived it and so now I'd rather have smaller stones, which I do have and better cut. Good luck!

 

[belle]

Date: 2/10/2006 12:35:00 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic
Guys, I hope this helps....(BTW these are all pics taken form GOG and are not pics of the actual stones I am talking about)

Ok here is the actual stone which GOG compaired the H&A to and yes I could see the difference in the sparkle

However, the stones that I was looking at were better cut than the one up top, so I had a hard time comparing. To give you some idea of the two stones, they looked somewhat like this.

The one below is the deeper one that did not have the formation of arrows. The stone with the formation of arrows has arrows a bit thicker than the ones up top, but I''m not sure that it has as much hot spots inbetween the arrows.

all of the above three pics are from gog?

 

[squarediamondlove]

Date: 2/10/2006 1:36:29 PM
Author: belle

Date: 2/10/2006 12:35:00 PM

all of the above three pics are from gog?

Yes, these are all pics form GOG. But Round#1 pair is NOT from GOG but from another dealer. I only used the pics from GOG as a reference to give you an idea of what the IS images looked like for pair #1.

As I have mentioned before my mom is nervouse about buying online even though I told her about very credible stores like WF, so I am definately limited on my options.

So form the responses I got so far there seems to be consenses on going with the smaller but better cut diamond pair #2. Am I right?

 

[belle]

Date: 2/10/2006 3:45:33 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic

Date: 2/10/2006 1:36:29 PM
Author: belle

Date: 2/10/2006 12:35:00 PM

all of the above three pics are from gog?

Yes, these are all pics form GOG. But Round#1 pair is NOT from GOG but from another dealer. I only used the pics from GOG as a reference to give you an idea of what the IS images looked like for pair #1.

As I have mentioned before my mom is nervouse about buying online even though I told her about very credible stores like WF, so I am definately limited on my options.

So form the responses I got so far there seems to be consenses on going with the smaller but better cut diamond pair #2. Am I right?

that''s interesting kaleidoscopic. do you have the link to them? #2 has the least leakage out of the 3. the first is pretty leaky all around and the third has leakage under the table.

 

[squarediamondlove]

Here are is the link

They are towards the bottom of the web page.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am interested in this thread because I am now trying to sell my mother my current 1.5 ct. studs so that I can get new ones now that I understand what to look for! Lol! I really think that if they are not interested in all these details, they''d be happy with less ideal diamonds than the average person here. It sounds like your mother is most interested in color, so get her some F''s and I wouldn''t go crazy over the H&A part since she probably wouldn''t really care.

My problem is that I really, really liked my 1.5 tcw pair, and it will cost me a LOT more to get the get cut, color, clarity combination that I want at that size! I am willing to go to H on earrings to get better cut. But I may have to go down in size a little, which is okay as long as they allow trade-ups on earrings.

 

[valeria101]

Just a few things...

I am surprised that there were no non H&H with better cut than that - agreed with what was said about the four IS pictures (first and last don''t look that great).

Do you think that your mother sent you out without a specific request about cut... knowing what is out there? Maybe she never got a chance to compare H&A and non like you. But... she sent you to do the shopping because you know about cut. I can only see your posts and don''t know the persons involved. It sounds like cut matters to all involved though. It is not an ''invisible'' quality we are talking about...

Can you talk with her?

I''d stay below 1 tcw (and .5 cts for each stone) to keep price lower.


There is a list of ideals (?- no stats given, but with AGS reports these should be available) at Abazias that doesn''t come up on the ''Cut Quality'' search here... A quick search found 17 ''Couples'' diamonds 0.45-0.49cts, D-F, Si1-Si2, $1000-$1200 each...

 

[squarediamondlove]

Thanks Valeria101,

Can you give me the link of where you found those price quotes? Are they excellent cut or did you mean that there is no cut info on them?

My mom wanted me to pic out the diamonds b/c she knows nothing about it, she just knows she doesn't want them to be yellowy and she wants them to be very nice quality and sparkle. I don't think most people that know nothing about dimaonds realize how important cut is. I know I never did until I went on PS and did research. So I am hoping she will appreciate the cut as much as I will. For me, I just don't get very exited about round diamonds until I see an ideal cut H&A. I told her about my feelings on it but she says she doesn't really have a concept of what I'm talking about and that she trusts my judgement.

So, I like you have no basis of what that means. I though perhaps if I can get her to come to my area and she can see both cuts for herself that would be a lot easier. I think that is somethin I have to do and let her decide for herself.

 

[Mara]

Kal I also thought that it was odd that there are no better non H&A cuts than the ones you posted, I didn''t see if you answered this already but did you check out other vendors too? If you can not pay for H&A branding then I would do that.

I would really recommend WF''s Expert Selection pre-set studs having seen them in person they all have amazing arrows and awesome light return, blazing off the ear, but I think they only sell them in I/J color???? If I am wrong someone let me know.

 

[fisiogrl]

It really will be great if you can show your mother the difference that a great cut can make to stone colour. Some of those crappy cuts in a G colour really scared me initially!!!

But now I love my I colour studs - but the cut is excellent. No yellow. Absolutely.

But, if it is going to be important to her that she can tell her friends that ''the stones are an F colour'', then your hands are really tied, and there is no point in fighting it. Then bigger might still be better! Knowing my mum''s generation - I would think that she might be happier with the bigger stones in an F. So option #1. Without anything else to compare to, they will just be bigger white stones!!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/11/2006 4:01:41 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic


Can you give me the link of where you found those price quotes?

Almost... this is the search page.



Are they excellent cut or did you mean that there is no cut info on them?

There is no cut info on stones of this weight on Abazias. But they say H&A... and the stones have AGS lab reports. Which will be e-mailed in a few hours from inquiry - still handier than no info or waiting for Sarin (which may not be too handy if charged for separately). I wish I knew better.

 

[newlyobsessed]

I''m just thrilled to read this & find out I''m not the only one who cleans her studs almost daily!