need advice, how much would you spend on the ring?

[tintin]

I need some opinions for my friend. My friend is thinking about getting engaged with his girlfriend...but because of the budget, he doesn''t know how much he should spend on the ring....
so If you were him, you have $35,000 saving and a stable monthly income $3000, then how much would you spend on the engagement ring?

 

[finchuck]

It's really hard for any of us to say, it depends on his financial security (which seems good considering his 35 grand in savings) and monthly costs. Does the $3,000 monthly income cover ALL of his monthly costs? Does he have any money left over every month or is he dipping into his savings every month to pay the bills? How secure is his job?

All of these things need to be considered. Also, what does his girlfriend expect and what would she be happy with. The sky is really the limit and for us to say what he should be doesn't make much sense. You could buy a half-carat and she might be thrilled, or you can splurge your entire $35k savings on a huge rock and she might be just as thrilled. Who knows.

 

[tintin]

yeah, I understand that it's hard to say. But for him, of course all the opinions are just for reference.
Yes, the $3000 monthly income covers all the expense, like rent, food, bills,etc. And probably he will use his saving to buy the ring. About if he can save money every month, I guess he can, but I don't know how much though.....

Anyways, don't worry to tell me what you guys think...everything is just for reference

 

[valeria101]

How does 5k sound for reference?

As for argument... the question of "how long would it take to cover the cost from monthly savings" may be a good way to put it. This is not a very usefull purchase, after all - so if it is a matter of taste and choice, it should not be a burden, I guess. Even if the purchase is made from savings, it may still be relevant to ask "is the effort to cover the gap worth it"? If this piece of jewelry is important enoung for you, almost any amount of such effort is justifiable... so all this is just a suggestion for how one could think about it, really.

Recetly, a PS post mentioned that the average carat weight of a E-ring diamond is 0.75 cts at a cost of 3K. From my PS experience, the average sum spent aroud here remains a mistery (no one tried to concoctand communicate an estimate yet) but most stones go between 1 and 1.5 cts, with G-H, VS-SI1 considered good buys. Surely, there are a few 2cts and 3cts pieces, but the "size" of the buys goes with the seazon, so it is not easy to tell what an "average" is. Prices? anything between 2k to some near 100k outlier, with a rather uneven distribution, as you may expect.

Also, the most often given piece of advice given around here in related issues (such as "how big should it be?) reads: what are people in your social circle and simmilar position wearing\buying ?

 

[chris-uk04]

I think $5 K is good. Making $3K/ mth (I assume that’s gross), it’ll be hard enough to save cash, so I wouldn’t blow his 35K on a rock. He might need it as a safety net or for down payment on a house. Take a look here at a nice 0.93 ct H VS2 for $4769, which would be about $5 K after a nice tiffany setting. 0.93 H VS2

 

[valeria101]

Oh... suggestions, suggestions...

Sure, here are more light-catchers, H&A or not:

0.91ct G-VS2

1.01cts I-SI2

Of course, this is not the only seller anyone would point out, similar stones can be found elsewhere, but the level of detail of these online presentations... not really. This wealth of info makes this store a good place to start thinking what exactly you consider "good enough" for a stone.

 

[Griffin]

>Take a look here at a nice 0.93 ct H VS2 for $4769, which would be about $5 K after a nice tiffany setting.<

What is the deal with everyone thinking that mountings are some kind of afterthought? I know I'm biased, as mountings are my business, but why in the world would anyone continue to put exceptional rocks in tiffany mounts?
I recently failed to convince a customer not to put a $14,000 stone into a $60 lightweight Stuller tiffany mount. It's all they would budget.

Can someone PLEASE explain?!?!?!?

 

[valeria101]

Good point Griffin...

Here's what one may find among previous wawes of PS posts about it:

For some reason, the general idea seems to be that the diamond is really what is given with the respective proposal (so the initial setting is just some minimal support) and the wearer is the best person to choose a "definitive" setting. Being closer to the "wearer" position in this argument, I find it sound. Not too many people would start out having strong preferences about a diamond shape or quality, and there are far fewer and better defined choices for diamond shape and overall appearence (you know, about four shapes with some cut model variations for each and this is it) than for mountings. There were countless threads covering this kind of debate : "what mounting should I get her? how can I tell what she likes? etc."

Of course, some beg to differ. But getting a $60 mounting for a $14k stone makes all the sense in the world: it is just saying - this is the best diamond I know of, it is yours to pick a ring for

Actualy, I think that choosing a ring designer to recommend for making the "definitive" setting, would be a welcome add-in to the diamond serch...

 

[chris-uk04]

----------------
On 2/6/2004 7:24:25 AM Griffin wrote:

>Take a look here at a nice 0.93 ct H VS2 for $4769, which would be about $5 K after a nice tiffany setting.<

What is the deal with everyone thinking that mountings are some kind of afterthought? I know I'm biased, as mountings are my business, but why in the world would anyone continue to put exceptional rocks in tiffany mounts?
I recently failed to convince a customer not to put a $14,000 stone into a $60 lightweight Stuller tiffany mount. It's all they would budget.

Can someone PLEASE explain?!?!?!?

----------------

Some settings are exquisite. But they are also expensive. If you have 5K to spend, would you get a tiny 40 pt stone with a 4K setting? Or would you spend most of the money on the rock itself.
If you are spending 20K, by all means spend 4K on a setting, but for 5K… I would recommend to get the biggest and best stone possible and upgrade the setting in the future.

 

[Griffin]

Thats a good point about temporary mountings for E-rings. I do give out "loaner" mountings all the time for proposals. Problem is, those are people who have already chosen a designer for the "definitive" mount.

The $14k ring in the $60 mount was no E-ring. It was chosen by a lady buying the ring for herself. That WAS the final mounting! I find this too often.

The only way people can pay $4-5k for a mount is if they are buying a name, not a mounting. Mountings just don't cost that much.

 

[aljdewey]

Hi, Griffin:




I can understand your being puzzled about the mountings selection. Here are a few insights.




1. Most people would rather put most of their budget into getting the stone with the most presence.....and I think that's dependent on the initial desire in the first place. With my very tight budget, I just pulled off getting into a 1.24 stone by going H/SI2. If I had another 2K at the time, I would have put it toward setting, because I really don't want a stone bigger than what I have.




2. I put my stone into an $80 Tiffany style mounting as a temporary setting--intending to get a custom setting made. However, sooo many people have commented how the very simple setting really showcases the stone that I'm not sure I'm going to change it now. The thing is, a tiffany-style setting can make even smaller stones look substantial. I've seen a few folks here in the last year who's tight budget put them at the .75 or .80 mark, and they went with ultra-thin band Tiffany settings to set off the stone and to put most of their money into the stone.




3. Given a choice between upgrading a stone or upgrading to a better mounting, I'd rather upgrade the mounting. If I pick a nice mounting first for a smaller stone, the setting may not accommodate the upgraded stone down the line (this happened to Kayla, I think). Also, the thought of setting and unsetting stones more than once in a setting makes me worry about the integrity of the structure of the setting.




4. As a woman, I can tell you that I think I've changed my mind SIX TIMES on "what I want for a setting" since I got my ring two months ago. It's really tough to decide what you think you'd like to wear FOREVER. Mara was completely in love with her custom settting when she got it, but now, she would like to consider something else. I think this indecision also leads us to set into an inexpensive Tiffany setting - so we can be free to look until we find "the" setting.




5. The settings I initially wanted were the Verragio style settings....but I didn't want platinum. I think that there aren't enough "generic" settings that really compete with the designer settings. And yes, the Verragio setting for the e-ring alone was about $3500.

 

[aljdewey]

Tintin, I think he should spend what HE feels comfortable spending on a ring. That's an individual choice for everyone, and how much someone makes per month shouldn't really determine an "expectation" of what to spend.

 

[honeynut]

Hi! I am more of a lurker than a poster as I will not be making the big purchase myself, however as a jewelry LOVER this fascination I have with the science of diamonds leads me to this, and other sittes like Jonathan's, daily. So, firstly - thanks for everything I've learned about diamonds with the unknowing help of many of yourselves!

I thought I'd encourage Griffin by saying, my setting was picked long before the diamond will be, and it's definitely no tiffany. The size of the stone matters to me only so much as it flatters the beautiful mount, as that style of ring that I chose is so exquisitely me. Different people place value in different things, however; antiques have always had my heart so I don't much go for the minimalist richness of a hunk of ice on a hint of a band. Many here would probably find my ring too "busy" as perhaps the side stones take away from the centre stone, as they want that to be the only main focus of attention.

A friend of mine had the most beautiful love letter written to her in which her boyfriend compared himself to a smooth stone peacefuly resting positioned just 'so' in a japanese garden, the beauty to be found in the contemplation of the surrounding space. I imagine his home as a lofty, open area with a neutral palette and a very few pieces of strategically placed furniture. Mine, on the other hand, is a bright mess of colors, books, furniture and stuff that is a mix of classic, comfortable and funky rather than starkly elegant. Jewelry is such a representation of onesself that, just in the way we choose to decorate our homes, so may we choose to decorate ourselves.

 

[Nicrez]

Very true Sparkly. Very true. Sadly, that's why it's a tough choice for men to make, especially with no hints and no real clue from their ladies, regarding settings, or even the stone!

The usual I hear is that a guy spends two months salary on the stone. Again, that's probably 5K on a nice stone, and then 1K on the setting. Setting (even simple ones) can get pricey. Vatche's x-prong I have been oggling, is $1100! And it's the simplest platinum band I could find.

Sprakly, my home is eclectic, but generally simple and modern, so is my ring taste.

 

[fire&ice]

How old is he? 35K savings at 35 years old is very different than 35k savings at 22 years. Is the 35k earmarked for a down payment for a house - or does he already have a house.

That said, what size are your surrounding peers getting? What size are her hands? What shape does he want?

What I am trying to say - is while it's smart to create a budget - you can't create that in a vacuum. Also, there are no hard & fast rules on how much to spend. And, shouldn't be a the expense of creating a financially secure future for them.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I think, as others have said, it totally depends on the purchaser himself. Another important piece of information to have is where in the country he's located. If he's in an area that's less expensive to live in, and he has $35,000 in savings and $3000/month salary, that might be a lot of money, and he can afford to spend a little more on the ring. If he's like me in the Washington, DC area, that's not a lot of money. Heck, townhomes here near a metro but still far out in the suburbs can start at $400-$500,000, not to mention what a regular house can cost. So that $35,000 for me would be going to a house downpayment and not a ring. It's all what he feels comfortable with.

My two cents on Griffin's mounting comment: I have a generic Tiffany-style ring- very simple, yes, but fits my tastes most definitely. I feel it shows off the diamond perfectly and goes well on my size 4 fingers. I guess I happened to get lucky that the style I liked the best is also the cheapest!

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 2/6/2004 8:17:18 AM Griffin wrote:



I do give out 'loaner' mountings all the time for proposals. ----------------

That's an interesting idea! This is the first time I hear that mountigs can be "loaned" - this sounds much better than giving the ring away on a paper clip (those "temporary settings" available at diamond sellers, you know what I mean)! And adds the promisse of a custom setting to the diamond... Oh well, live and learn, as they say.

The other "version" (the 1000 to 1, stone to ring combination) - just a matter of taste, really. Half a decade ago I would have enhjoyed Stuller too... half the way around the Globe later, maybe i'll be able to actually demand a setting worth 5K for manufacturing alone...

 

[MichelleCarmen]

----------------
On 2/6/2004 6:33:22 AM chris-uk04 wrote:

I think $5 K is good. Making $3K/ mth (I assume that’s gross), it’ll be hard enough to save cash, so I wouldn’t blow his 35K on a rock. He might need it as a safety net or for down payment on a house. Take a look here at a nice 0.93 ct H VS2 for $4769, which would be about $5 K after a nice tiffany setting. 0.93 H VS2----------------

I completely agree w/Chris. This friend should purchase a H&A diamond in the .90s and this will not only provide his GF with an amazing sized diamond to start out with, but also leave him enough to put a downpayment on a house. You have to be realistic and with 3K a month income, there's just not enough left after bills to be looking into saving up a SECOND time for a downpayment. I can't imagine a girl not being pleased with both a .93 diamond AND a home to start out a marriage in! Better than a two carat rock and a small, cramped apartment!

Michelle

 

[Nicrez]

Save the money. We just decided together that we would rather a smaller stone that to get my "big stone" and save the rest to get a house sooner. Tell him to save his money, it's just a stone!

I am A-OK with that now that I see it's such a pricey endeavor just to get the band and the wedding band and the tax, and shipping, etc...BOY!

 

[Hest88]

I like the $5000 idea. It should get him a nice, substantial stone. However, I also think he should then put the stone into a temp setting so they can choose a wedding set together. That way she gets the ring of her dreams and, given his saving habits, he should be able to replenish that $5k pretty easily so he can get her a nice setting if that's what she wants.

 

[ringbling17]

----------------
On 2/6/2004 8:46:44 AM aljdewey wrote:


Hi, Griffin:



If I pick a nice mounting first for a smaller stone, the setting may not accommodate the upgraded stone down the line (this happened to Kayla, I think). blockquote>


Actually, just to clarify this, I had the Vatche Royal Crown setting for my 1.5 and when I upgraded to a 2 carat, D. Atlas was able to fix the prongs so that the 2 carat fit into the same setting.
When I eventually decided to have Leon Mege make me a new setting, I was able to sell my RC setting for a very good price, so that I only had to pay a little bit more money for the LM setting.

I agree with the others, I would spend most of my money on the stone, rather than on the setting, and then maybe down the road let her decide on a setting of her dreams.
$5K sounds like a good price for the stone alone, then add $500 to $1000 for a setting.

 

[PlatinumDiamond]

I had no choice in the matter .... my wife just wanted a simple 950 Platinum Ru wedding band with quality diamonds and no e-ring...she saw one and fell in love with it at first site. I even took her shopping to look at more expensive ones, but she still wanted the first one. I tried convincing her to get an e-ring too. She said no to that.

Since then, like about a few weeks ago, she decided on a custom made 950 Platinum Ru Diamond/Sapphire e-ring to go along with her wedding ring because of some pics and posts of other e-rings that she saw on forums. That did it, now she wanted an e-ring. She loves and wears it constantly with her wedding band.

So for me, cost wasn't even considered, it was what she wanted. I never gave her a price limit, course if it would have been more than I could of afforded, I would have done some worring at that point.

When I was young, the traditional amount to be spent on a wedding ring and e-ring set was 2-3 months gross pay.

I got off cheap!

 

[roshita]

I agree that 5K is a reasonable price to start It will get you a very nice stone in a good size. I do not think there will be any comlaints on size. you can always upgrade.

As to the setting, the suggestions on putting it in a simple tiffany and letting her choose the ring of her dreams seems to me right on the mark. The setting is where her sense of taste and style is expressed. Allowing her this simple choice will give her lasting appreciation for your efforts.

 

[DavidEmslie]

I am going to have to agree the setting is more important. Considering CZs look at first glance like the best diamonds out there...well, any redneck with $29.95 can go to walmart and pick up a
"Genuine 10k Gold CZ ring" and it looks similar too the finest generic tiffany mounts.
I do have to say I am biased as I make custom mounts for a living.
But man does the big money in big stones in generic rings get boreing fast. I see so many people go "Whop-dee-doo hey babe look what I got ya. it looks just like everyone elses" Anyone who can aford 1k to 100k for a diamond does not drive around the old econobox they did in high school, nor the old ratty jeans and t-shirts and beat up hats, why should there rings reflect the same generic design everyone else has? If your cars, clothes and homes have something to set them apart from others...shouldnt the ring besides the diamond?

On that same note however, for people who want to give something to a special lady that is as special as she should be. All of my customers over the years have been able to say someting quite interesting, instead of saying "hey I bought this for you" They can say at that speical moment

"I had this made for you!"

Women enjoy feeling speical, and being made to feel special. The thought behind that just says it all right there.

 

[Mara]

Hee Hee I was going to say $10k should be spent on the ring.

Double what everyone else said! I look at it like...he's obviously got a good chunk of savings, sounds like he may be still relatively young with many income-producing years ahead of him...and has managed to save up this large amount of money in who-knows-how-many-years. But it's obvious he manages to save. I would take $10k for the ring, the remainder is still $25k which is still a good amount of money to go into a committment like this with.




My two cents...

Or $7500 is a nice compromise. Hee Hee.




As for the setting vs the stone..I am a huge setting person. I don't personally like the Tiffany setting, it seems like everyone has it or wants to replicate it....so I wouldn't ever really be dying to wear it. Our setting was rather expensive, 20% of our entire budget, but in the end I really loved having a custom built setting that DOES showcase the stone quite spectacularly. But....as others note, sometimes people tend to want to change out the setting, or the guy just wants to propose with something that's hers ($60 ain't much when he is spending $14k and I'd rather do that than a 'loaner' setting where I feel pressured to make up a final decision on the real setting soon) but not anything super expensive, etc.




I think the $60 setting is an exception, not the rule? Maybe more like $100-300 for a Tiff setting depending on metal.

 

[Nicrez]

I have to respectfully disagree with Mara. Yes you are young, and have saved well. Who is to say you will be able to do so the same way in the future?

Consider equity. Having that extra $5K in the bank will make you more money in interest than selling that diamond on the market, if the need for the money is there. Selling a used engagement ring will net about 15-20% of original price in a pawn shop and on average 65% in a consumer market. 65% of $10K is $3,500 less. That's A LOT TO LOSE. Diamonds are NOT investments.

Ok, say you won't sell it, and you want to keep it. If you are so confident about your ability to save, make sure that your goals are met before you chuck a large bit of that into a ring. Consider insurance costs on it. Then adding that yearly total expense to the ost of the ring makes it a lot more now. A $5K ring could possibly get away with no insurance, or for a lesser amount of time (5 years), you stop insurance and save the money for a bigger upgrade.

I gather that you saved that money for a reason. Was it the ring, or just to be comfortable and secure? Maybe if you want to compromise for $7,500 that would work, but DON'T go overboard! It's the proposal and the sentiment that should convey your feelings, not a DeBeers ad or a stone!

Find out her tastes, cater to them, but consider your futures together. With more money in the bank you could get a nicer rate for a mortgage, and can afford to buy her diamonds and jewels more often, instead of aying so much monthly!

 

[Mara]

Everything we are saying is an assumption...I am assuming that he will have many more income producing years ahead of him, rendering this initial purchase not so big of a deal later. It really also depends on alot of other factors...does he have a car payment or would he need a new car? Is he planning on buying a house when they get married or not? Is he okay with the idea of upgrading or not? That would be a huge factor in how much I would want to spend up front as well.




I also don't consider diamonds or jewelry investments unless you are talking an investment in sentiment, ROI undeterminable.

And I don't plan to resell jewelry either. As for insurance, many people don't even bother to insure their items, preferring to replace them later. So that is an assumption again, we have no idea if he plans to insure it..etc.




All said...with the very limited information given and assuming habits like my own (only thing we really can go on in this scenario!) $10k would be my mark. I like to fly a little by the seat of my pants. But then again, that was the same mark I had in reality as well...hee hee.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

----------------
On 2/10/2004 5:13:37 PM Mara wrote:


Everything we are saying is an assumption...I am assuming that he will have many more income producing years ahead of him, rendering this initial purchase not so big of a deal later. It really also depends on alot of other factors...does he have a car payment or would he need a new car? ----------------

Also, you've got to consider the girlfriend's income. Is she making a good enough wage to help save up again for the house downpayment? If she's earning an additional 3K on top of his, then I'd agree with Mara to increase the budget to $10,000. . .but if she's a student or just barely making it, then WHY waste so much money on a material item when they may need this money for bills, student loans, or who knows what other expenses on top of the house. They can ALWAYS upgrade later when both are making good money

Michelle

 

[Debutante]

Listen, my fiance makes a helluva lot more than that. Before I even had a clue that he was going to propose, he asked me what kind of ring I might like "if ever it came to get engaged." I told him that the only worse invenstment than a brand new car was a diamond ring. If you want to read more about the real value of diamonds, check out www.TheAtlantic.com and do a search on "diamond" and "DeBeers". An interesting article from the late 80s will describe to you what everyone in the industry knows: diamonds aren't worth much. It's all smoke and mirrors. Try to resell a "flawless" $10,000 diamond, and you'll be lucky to get a third of that.

If he wants to be a good husband and his fiance wants to be a good wife, I'd recommend that on such a tight income they spend the bulk of his "ring money" on buying themselves a Roth IRA and putting the rest in stocks. The wedding itself will also cost quite a bit of money.

I'm telling you, my engagement ring probably cost less than $500. It's my birthstone, and I love it. There's no need to show it off or to impress anyone with how much it 'cost'. I know what it symbolizes for us, and there's no amount of money that can reflect how much I value that.

Honestly. Suggest to your friend -- and his girlfriend -- that they should consider being brave and bucking the big-diamond trend. They'll be starting off their marriage on the right financial footing!

 

[diamondsman]

i would advise on spending about 2 months salary, in this case they could strech it to 3 months=9000.00, I would then put the balance of the savings as a down payment towards an apt.or a townhouse.