Need advice! Did I get a good VS2 or it is just a bump from SI1?

[lovelydiamond]

Hi all,

First of all, we appreciate all your help and welcome all comments. We (bf and I) have been learning from all the great discussion from this forum and from our knowledge now, we recently narrowed down to this stone:

Carat 1.20
Color F
Clarity VS2
Cut EX, (polish and sysmetry EX)
Gridle Medium
Table 56
Depth 61.7
Crow Angle 34.5
Pavilion Angle 40.8

We got it from a very reputable online vendor and we were very happy with our purchase, until... The last weekend, when we brought it to a local jeweler to set it to a ring, the jeweler were commenting on the "quality" of this VS2. He thinks it is a lower quality VS2, just a bump from SI1??? We were confused. This diamond is definitely eye-clean from face up (it is even hard to see the clouds with a 15X loupe), the two clouds look like "not dense" cluster of white dust under 15X loupe, have to angle the diamond in a certain way to make the cloud noticable. But that, from the side, or pavilion, it is true that the clouds (several pinpoints) appears black, easy to locate under loupe, but still eye clean without it.

The appearance of black pinpoints from the clouds (at side and pavilioin views) is what make the jeweler thinks it is likely we were paying for a bumped up SI1, not a true VS2?? Is that possible?

We were not concerned about the beauty of the diamond itself, it got good cut, proportion (HCA 1.3) and color. We chose the clariy as VS2, just eye clean so our budget can afford this larger diamond. Our concern is whether our jeweler''s comment is right, we can find a SI1 in this quality too, so we can save some money? To us, we think a VS2 must be a VS2, especially it is graded from GIA, however, we want your comments about whether we have overpaid (~$9500) for this VS2? Also, does the cloud (several pinpoints) appears black from the side and pavilion, make it considered black inclusions?

Thanks for reading and commenting.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome!

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Now you have to consider the source, it is possible that the jeweller might have an agenda as he didn't sell you the diamond - but even if he genuinely thinks that the diamond is closer to an SI1 then that is not a problem necessarily - also do we know if he has any true gemological/ appraisal training in grading diamonds? If you are concerned, then get an independant appraisal from someone who does not sell diamonds, here is a tool you can use to find one in your area.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

But your diamond sounds lovely, you picked one with excellent numbers which is likely to be a stunning stone!

 

[stone-cold11]

I am thinking just sour grapes talk from the jeweler, probably trying to scare you into buying a stone from him instead. If you are still unsure, have it appraised by an independent appraiser found with this link.

EDT:
Lorelei is faster...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/27/2008 11:38:09 AM
Author:lovelydiamond
Hi all,


We got it from a very reputable online vendor and we were very happy with our purchase, until... The last weekend, when we brought it to a local jeweler to set it to a ring, the jeweler were commenting on the 'quality' of this VS2. He thinks it is a lower quality VS2, just a bump from SI1??? We were confused. This diamond is definitely eye-clean from face up (it is even hard to see the clouds with a 15X loupe), the two clouds look like 'not dense' cluster of white dust under 15X loupe, have to angle the diamond in a certain way to make the cloud noticable. But that, from the side, or pavilion, it is true that the clouds (several pinpoints) appears black, easy to locate under loupe, but still eye clean without it.

The appearance of black pinpoints from the clouds (at side and pavilioin views) is what make the jeweler thinks it is likely we were paying for a bumped up SI1, not a true VS2?? Is that possible?

We were not concerned about the beauty of the diamond itself, it got good cut, proportion (HCA 1.3) and color. We chose the clariy as VS2, just eye clean so our budget can afford this larger diamond. Our concern is whether our jeweler's comment is right, we can find a SI1 in this quality too, so we can save some money? To us, we think a VS2 must be a VS2, especially it is graded from GIA, however, we want your comments about whether we have overpaid (~$9500) for this VS2? Also, does the cloud (several pinpoints) appears black from the side and pavilion, make it considered black inclusions?

Thanks for reading and commenting.

Diamond are graded from face up, not from the side, and at only 10x.

And the fact that it's even eyeclean from the side makes it sound to me like it's definitely been graded correctly. I think it "may" be sour grapes too. This is not an unusual scenario, sad to say.

As Lorelei said, if you're really worried, have it appraised, but I think it is exactly what you paid for.

 

[lovelydiamond]

Thanks for all your comments. As Ellen has commented, the diamond is also considered eye clean, from the side (although I can see it, because I am short sighted and my eyes focus when the diamond is 2-3 inches away, but for normal viewing, when I put on my glasses, my eyes focus when the diamond is 6-8 inches away, and I cannot see the inclusions anymore).

I am not sure if there may be sour grapes involves as the jeweler also commented that we got a good deal for the spec from the GIA report, and he suggested that we do not return it as we may not find a similar one in that price range now (we all know diamond price goes up every week).

Is it normal for the cloud inclusions to appear white (cluster of white dust) from face up, but blackish from the side and pavilion? Will this be considered a black inclusions and will lower the value of this diamond? Although, to us, this diamond is not really an investment, since we do not plan to sell it (hope we do not have to...), but we want to again, make sure we are getting what we have paid for (~$9500).

I wanted to have the diamond appraised, but then my bf thinks it is going too far, he would just trust GIA and the reputable internet vendor that we bought from. Plus, he rather spend the extra money on a nicer setting.

 

[neatfreak]

Honestly, I think you are fine. Even if there are no sour grapes, grading is done by people and people have differing opinions. Unless this guy is a very experienced appraiser, I would take anything he says about stone grading with a grain of salt. It sounds beautiful!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/27/2008 2:45:50 PM
Author: lovelydiamond
Thanks for all your comments. As Ellen has commented, the diamond is also considered eye clean, from the side (although I can see it, because I am short sighted and my eyes focus when the diamond is 2-3 inches away, but for normal viewing, when I put on my glasses, my eyes focus when the diamond is 6-8 inches away, and I cannot see the inclusions anymore).

I am not sure if there may be sour grapes involves as the jeweler also commented that we got a good deal for the spec from the GIA report, and he suggested that we do not return it as we may not find a similar one in that price range now (we all know diamond price goes up every week).

Is it normal for the cloud inclusions to appear white (cluster of white dust) from face up, but blackish from the side and pavilion? Will this be considered a black inclusions and will lower the value of this diamond? Although, to us, this diamond is not really an investment, since we do not plan to sell it (hope we do not have to...), but we want to again, make sure we are getting what we have paid for (~$9500).

I wanted to have the diamond appraised, but then my bf thinks it is going too far, he would just trust GIA and the reputable internet vendor that we bought from. Plus, he rather spend the extra money on a nicer setting.

I am wondering if you are maybe seeing two different things here? I'm no expert, but I would think black inclusions would look black no matter what (not white from another view), or else you wouldn't see them at all from the top, but just from the side. But that's just my non-expert opinion. If you see a black inclusion from the side under the loupe, then yes, it's really black. But that's not unusual, they are in many stones. And since you can't see it with normal viewing, I wouldn't worry about it. That has nothing to do with the clarity grade, or the price you paid.

And ditto neat!

 

[lovelydiamond]

I guess it is because I am viewing the diamond in different lighting condition and so it appears the same cloud inclusions are sometimes white (from face up) and black (from side and pavilion). When I am viewing it from the side and pavilion, the light source is shining from top facing the side and pavilion, but when viewing from face up, since the brilliance of the diamond pretty much hides the cloud, I have to angle the diamond, the light source entering the diamond from the side and the cloud is more noticeable as cluster of white dust.

I hope it is just a general perception that a black inclusions, a black dot, is more visible (also, black is more stereotype as dirt while white is pure). I think it is quite hard to avoid one, but as long as it is not visible, I think I should drop the issue and just enjoy this lovely diamond. Plus, I think the online vendor (BN) I bought from, has one of the most competitive pricing, and this diamond''s price is in one of the lower range, so I guess I have to accept it is what it is. One similar diamond with inclusions in white instead, and more on the side, not in the middle of the table, might be a few hundreds to a thousand more....

I can¡¦t wait to have the diamond set and so I can wear it¡K ooops, I am also waiting for the official proposal¡K