NATURAL RUSSIAN DEMANTOID GARNET

[BoxOFrocks]

Hi everyone im new to the world of gems and would like to share my latest gem with you all.
its a NATURAL RUSSIAN DEMANTOID GARNET! almost 10 ct .i am buy know mean a expert in fact i am a marine engineer.
that sails the high sea a pirate some might say!
so my question to the world is this.i except the fact that its not the biggest or the bet but is it worth what i paid 4 it.
thanks boxofrocks!

 

[chrono]

Looks very green. Are the fine inclusions I see radiating from the center the horsetail?

 

[Pandora II]

What did you pay for it and where did you get it from?

Have you had it appraised and tested?

 

[BoxOFrocks]

Hi thx u 4 the posts.the gem

was bought 4 $1200 it is 10ct thorugh ebay .
Pieces: 1
Weight: 9.68 CTS
Shape: ROUND
Colour: GREEN
Clarity: VS
Size: 12X12
Type: DEMANTOID
Luster: AWESOME
Origin: RUSSIA
Treatment none

 

[BoxOFrocks]

More the gem is going to be looked at . came through Canada .yes there is plenty of asbestoes in the stone but was told this is normal.luster is crazy nice!
thx

 

[ma re]

If this is indeed a natural stone (which should be checked by a gemologist), than I don''t think you overpaid. However, clarity description of VS(?) and luster description of "awesome"(?!?!) don''t sound encouraging. For what I know, "awesome" is not a normally used gemological term (especially in lab reports etc.) and if this stone is Very Slightly included I should get my eyes checked ASAP. Hope you can return it for a full refund if it turns out to be a scam. Don''t mean to scare you, I''m just a bit suspicious. Good luck

 

[Pandora II]

I''m afraid that I am very suspicious.

I had a look at it on ebay and I think you will find that the stone is a lot less ''green'' in person - I think those pictures were taken while shining a torch through the stone. I''m also having a lot of trouble seeing any ''horse-tail'' inclusion - although the stone is extremely included. His feedback on toolhaus isn''t very encouraging either.

A nearly 10ct demantoid would be practically a museum piece as stones over 1ct are rare enough.

I would suggest taking it for a full lab work-up asap. I hope you have a good return policy, sorry.

 

[chrono]

$1200 for 10 ct demantoid raises a ton of red flags for me.

 

[T L]

Most of the "Russian" demantoid sold on ebay is from central asia as well.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Sorry--I'm highly suspicious as well. Russian demantoid is generally found in small sizes. There are many red flags here--color, size, price etc.

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi there,

I recently asked about a 2 ct fine russian demantoid with a horsetail and was quoted about 15,000. So 1200 for 10ct, it is either not fine gem quality or it is not demantoid, if you know whai I mean.

 

[BoxOFrocks]

thanks for the in put i will get it checked out! he gave me 30 days to geta full refund so if its not the gem as stated ill return it asap!
could so one please try to teach and show me what this gem is to look like?
thanks a bunch John

 

[kcoursolle]

A real 10 carat demantoid garnet would probably go for a hundred thousand or so... maybe much more. I would get the stone independently appraised or simply return it. The pictures probably aren''t of the actual stone, they are probably a stock image. In addition, I don''t know of any legitimate jeweler that uses the term "awesome" to describe the luster. Does it have a GIA, AGS, or EGL certification?

 

[BoxOFrocks]

as a new guy thank you all u have been most helpful .sometimes things happen for a reason i hope that the gem is just that a gem if not well im a box of rocks !

 

[Harriet]

Do you have a natural history museum near you?

 

[BoxOFrocks]

i have no clue but why such a thought?
repectfully just wanted to know why....
thanks John

 

[T L]

If you can't get to a museum to see one in person, then here's a webpage that is very informative on them.

http://www.palagems.com/gem_spectrum7.htm

The deep chrome greens with horsetails that are present, but not so bad that they are causing clarity issues, are typically the most valuable. Size is also a factor since they rarely go above 2 carats in size, and even at 1 carat and up, the price jumps greatly for fine qualities.

 

[BoxOFrocks]

where would i send this gem to get the value and to find out what it really is.
thanks Johnny

 

[Harriet]

Date: 1/21/2009 11:11:14 PM
Author: BoxOFrocks
i have no clue but why such a thought?
repectfully just wanted to know why....
thanks John

Oh, because you expressed a desire to see a ''model'' demantoid.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/21/2009 11:24:04 PM
Author: BoxOFrocks
where would i send this gem to get the value and to find out what it really is.
thanks Johnny

Richard Sheerwood, who is a gemologist/appraiser that also specializes in colored stones. He sometimes appears in RockyTalky part of this forum, and you might be able to flag him down there or some other gemologists. You DO NOT want to send that to just any gemologist since most of them really only know about diamonds, rubies, sapphires, tanzanites and emeralds.

 

[glitterata]

Here is an example of a nice Russian demantoid with a horsetail:

This is a small stone, less than 4 mm in diameter.

 

[platinumrock]

What''s a horsetail in a demantoid garnet and what is its significance?

 

[ma re]

Date: 1/22/2009 2:08:40 AM
Author: platinumrock
What''s a horsetail in a demantoid garnet and what is its significance?

From what I know, they''re byssolite inclusions found only in demantoids. They''re called horsetail inclusions cause they radiate from the center and look like hairs of a horse''s tail. It was believed they''re exclusive to stones found in Russia, but some claim that even those from Namibia can exhibit them. They''re an "identifying tool" when it comes to demantoids.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 1/21/2009 11:24:04 PM
Author: BoxOFrocks
where would i send this gem to get the value and to find out what it really is.
thanks Johnny

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't personally bother spending the money you will spend for an appraisal on this stone, and would just return it.

It may be a demantoid, but it is VERY far from being worth what you paid IMHO.

You don't find 'bargains' of that sort on ebay. Anyone with a real gem quality 10ct demantoid would have a lot of people interested in the stone and the price would almost certainly be in the hundreds of thousands.

This is not the case that you have found the once in a lifetime situation of a vendor who doesn't know what he is selling. This ebay vendor is selling a lot of 'awesome' demantoids and there are quite a few of his customers who have been pretty unimpressed with them looking through his negative feedback.

If you are prepared to spend a couple of hundred dollars to learn that what you bought isn't what you hoped it might be, then that is your call. Personally I would take the $1200 and buy a demantoid in the 1ct range that was a good example.

 

[BoxOFrocks]

well i have learned one thing for sure! this world is full of good people and i do think the why course of action is to do nothing i can afford to do that.i will get the rock looked over and the see what the gemoligist has to say 1200 is a sum for a bad gem.
but then again how often do you find one this size period.yes its not perfect i think the seller is honest.yes i could have bought one from the far east or a smaller one of higher Q but truth be told i think the stone is very nice .sure there are better but find me a better one thats almost 10 ct! then will have something to talk about.it is what it is. good bad or in other wise.
someone show me a 10 ct that has not be treated .....then i might have a change of heart.i play poker with the best for fun the i know doubt have a lot to learn thats why im here.i keep this stone as a learning stone!
thanks ill post the test scores as soon as i find someone that is worth a ...... need a place to send this thing to.
thank you all and look forward to learning more this is fun and a great change from what i havebeen doing for the last 25 years.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/22/2009 4:05:22 AM
Author: ma re

Date: 1/22/2009 2:08:40 AM
Author: platinumrock
What''s a horsetail in a demantoid garnet and what is its significance?

From what I know, they''re byssolite inclusions found only in demantoids. They''re called horsetail inclusions cause they radiate from the center and look like hairs of a horse''s tail. It was believed they''re exclusive to stones found in Russia, but some claim that even those from Namibia can exhibit them. They''re an ''identifying tool'' when it comes to demantoids.

I believe the Iranian stones also exhibit horsetails, as indicated by this article.

http://www.rockcutters.us/gem-info/demantoid-iran.html

My suspicion is that much of this supposed "Russian" material on ebay comes from Iran and Namibia. Therefore, I no longer think you can just see a horsetail and automatically conclude it''s a Russian stone. The Russian stones are typically cut better as well, especially the fine material, which also makes me suspect about the stone in question.

I''m not sure about the Iranian material, but the Namibian material seems to go olive or grey in certain lighting conditions. The finest Russian stones hold their chrome green color much better in various light sources, although there are undesirable olive/yellow Russian stones as well.

 

[chrono]

John,
For those that love and appreciate fine gemstones, it''s not just the size that matters. There is the colour, clarity and cut to consider as well, with colour coming up tops. As an example, there''s no use collecting a 30 ct sapphire if it is so dark or so included that it doesn''t look beautiful. I''d rather spend that $1200 on something that I love and will enjoy looking at for years to come, not just for bragging rights about its size.

 

[simplysplendid]

Date: 1/22/2009 8:52:14 AM
Author: Chrono
John,
For those that love and appreciate fine gemstones, it''s not just the size that matters. There is the colour, clarity and cut to consider as well, with colour coming up tops. As an example, there''s no use collecting a 30 ct sapphire if it is so dark or so included that it doesn''t look beautiful. I''d rather spend that $1200 on something that I love and will enjoy looking at for years to come, not just for bragging rights about its size.

I agree.. I have a pair of demantoids that are just 0.70 carats each and I love them!

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 1/22/2009 8:45:31 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/22/2009 4:05:22 AM
Author: ma re

Date: 1/22/2009 2:08:40 AM
Author: platinumrock
What''s a horsetail in a demantoid garnet and what is its significance?

From what I know, they''re byssolite inclusions found only in demantoids. They''re called horsetail inclusions cause they radiate from the center and look like hairs of a horse''s tail. It was believed they''re exclusive to stones found in Russia, but some claim that even those from Namibia can exhibit them. They''re an ''identifying tool'' when it comes to demantoids.

I believe the Iranian stones also exhibit horsetails, as indicated by this article.

http://www.rockcutters.us/gem-info/demantoid-iran.html

My suspicion is that much of this supposed ''Russian'' material on ebay comes from Iran and Namibia. Therefore, I no longer think you can just see a horsetail and automatically conclude it''s a Russian stone. The Russian stones are typically cut better as well, especially the fine material, which also makes me suspect about the stone in question.

I''m not sure about the Iranian material, but the Namibian material seems to go olive or grey in certain lighting conditions. The finest Russian stones hold their chrome green color much better in various light sources, although there are undesirable olive/yellow Russian stones as well.

Wow, this is better than an encyclopedia! The demantoid garnet''s color is very pretty...but the name just sounds.....unpleasant. Demantoid. De-man-toid. It sounds like a medical mutation of some sort.